List Mgmt. Club greats - time to say goodbye

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SplintWhisky

Premiership Player
Feb 14, 2014
3,281
7,543
AFL Club
Richmond
Jesus Christ people are melting hard. All 3 of those players mentioned in the OP are great leaders of the club and we can't just fu** them off at the drop of the hat. We have had 4 years of much shorter preseasons than most and last year had a real short preseason. But reading this thread there must be a maternity ward of babies out in the ocean with how many have been thrown out with the bath water.

Jack, Cotch and Houli are the club's identity and heart and soul. If they are all forced to retire then I can guarantee you we will spend a decade as cellar dwellers because that sh*t will stain the club.
 

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richoplzbreed

Team Captain
Apr 30, 2016
506
1,272
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I remember back in 2014 at the end of the season Tim Membrey was out of contract at the Swans. He'd been there for 2 years kicked 100 odd goals in their reserves while he was starved of opportunity (1 seniors game in 2 years) the Swans wanted him to recommit to them. He said he'd wait to see if they were going to re-sign Goodes as Goodes was keeping him out of the side. ( My mate barracks for Sydney and his favourite player was Adam Goodes apparently Goodes last 2 years were bloody ordinary but the club felt they owed it to a club legend to play on and go out on his terms) needless to say Goodes got one more year where he was bloody ordinary as father time waits for no man. The moral of the story is kids hanging onto Cotchin and Riewoldt is potentially going to cost us CJ and Bolton leaving. Let's not forget Bolton was dominating in midfield last year whilst we had injuries and soon as they came back he was shunned to forward line. He's on record as saying he wasn't happy about that. Now we're doing the same thing putting him up forward whilst Cotchin spuds it up in midfield (because he'd be even more of a liability anywhere else on the ground). They're only human people. If your Mrs wasn't treating you right and not putting out and some hot new thing came along promising the world whispering sweet nothings in you're ear, you'd be a fool not to take her up. Cotchin has already fallen off the cliff. Best could hope for out of him next year is 3 breakdowns to soft tissue injuries and playing 12 games averaging 10-12 dinky touches at 50% efficiency. Money well spent!!!!! Oh and if Sydney could turn back time I bet they would've told Goodes thanks for your service, time to retire and kept Membrey instead of losing him for nothing. F@$k sakes people the club comes first not the egos of the players. There's a reason Bob Skilton Royce Hart, Gary Ablett snr and Leigh Matthews aren't still playing. They got old same as everyone.
 

OhDustinMartin

RIP Shane Tuck #21
Oct 27, 2014
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No matter what, Cotch is a 3x Premiership skipper, Brownlow Medallist, J.D Medallist and one of the most selfless players ever to pull on the Tiger stripes. He should be able to call time whenever he wants, after all his sacrifices. However, he can't go beyond next year. He looks cooked now, but deserves one last pre-season to get a run at a farewell year. But we have to do justice to our young mids. We know that Ross is no good, and now we must find out about RCD, Martyn and Dow.
 

JAKLAUGHING

🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
Nov 20, 2008
28,939
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I can't like this enough.

These guys, and the entire team for that matter, have all played deep into September for the last four years. In 2021 they lived away from home for most of the season, won the premiership and then probably celebrated it harder than other flag has been celebrated before given the circumstances of the 2021 season AND going back-to-back. They then had the shortest off-season in history.

So I say if any of them want to go around again then they have earnt that opportunity. They could well be physically and mentally exhausted, they don't have the team-mates they expected to have around them because of injury and (lack of) experience and the game is changing. They get 2022 to have another crack, but nothing after that.
Lord This GIF - Lord This - Discover & Share GIFs
 

YeOldTiger

67-69-73-74-80-17-19-20 Fully Vaxxed
Jul 22, 2016
3,877
14,578
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I remember back in 2014 at the end of the season Tim Membrey was out of contract at the Swans. He'd been there for 2 years kicked 100 odd goals in their reserves while he was starved of opportunity (1 seniors game in 2 years) the Swans wanted him to recommit to them. He said he'd wait to see if they were going to re-sign Goodes as Goodes was keeping him out of the side. ( My mate barracks for Sydney and his favourite player was Adam Goodes apparently Goodes last 2 years were bloody ordinary but the club felt they owed it to a club legend to play on and go out on his terms) needless to say Goodes got one more year where he was bloody ordinary as father time waits for no man. The moral of the story is kids hanging onto Cotchin and Riewoldt is potentially going to cost us CJ and Bolton leaving. Let's not forget Bolton was dominating in midfield last year whilst we had injuries and soon as they came back he was shunned to forward line. He's on record as saying he wasn't happy about that. Now we're doing the same thing putting him up forward whilst Cotchin spuds it up in midfield (because he'd be even more of a liability anywhere else on the ground). They're only human people. If your Mrs wasn't treating you right and not putting out and some hot new thing came along promising the world whispering sweet nothings in you're ear, you'd be a fool not to take her up. Cotchin has already fallen off the cliff. Best could hope for out of him next year is 3 breakdowns to soft tissue injuries and playing 12 games averaging 10-12 dinky touches at 50% efficiency. Money well spent!!!!! Oh and if Sydney could turn back time I bet they would've told Goodes thanks for your service, time to retire and kept Membrey instead of losing him for nothing. F@$k sakes people the club comes first not the egos of the players. There's a reason Bob Skilton Royce Hart, Gary Ablett snr and Leigh Matthews aren't still playing. They got old same as everyone.
So sack Adam Goodes so Tim Membery gets a run ? Wow just wow lol and the thing you said about "if your wife not putting out "etc crikey Neanderthal sh*t that lol
 

Serenity_Now

Club Legend
Oct 7, 2019
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We were the oldest premiership team in history last year. We’ve come off the shortest preseason ever. The quarters have been lengthened and interchanges have been reduced. We’ve had the rules changed to prevent our biggest strength. And we’ve been cruelled by injury. 9 premiership players out injured today and we’ve been 4-6 short each week all year.

I think our era may be over but the club deserve one last crack at it. I think the time might be right for Cotchin and Houli to retire, but if they feel they can have one more crack then let them play on.

Give them an extended break because we probably won’t feature in September, and hope for a refreshed team next year. Even if we don’t go near a flag, we’re good enough to make the 8. I’d hate for us to collapse the way Brisbane did after 04.
No we weren’t
 

Not Important

because i said so.
Oct 4, 2016
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some melts here. how long before we get a time for dimma to go thread.?:rolleyes: we've had a good run with injury in recent years. keeping the best 22 together is just so important. have a look at any of the recent flag wins and you'll see that club has had the best 22 available when it counts. this year has been a disaster injury wise and has been the major factor in our disappointing season.
 

banzai

Premiership Player
Oct 14, 2003
3,768
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some melts here. how long before we get a time for dimma to go thread.?:rolleyes: we've had a good run with injury in recent years. keeping the best 22 together is just so important. have a look at any of the recent flag wins and you'll see that club has had the best 22 available when it counts. this year has been a disaster injury wise and has been the major factor in our disappointing season.
That's not really true. Last year we left for the hub after round 5 in a disastrous position. Prestia, Nank and Astbury just got injured for pretty much the rest of the home and away season. Cotch did his hammy and Houli and Edwards chose to stay home. We only lost 2 games from this point. In 2019 Cotch and Jack missed a huge amount of the season and obviously Rance went down in round 1 and Nank also hardly played. We have survived having injuries before and then gotten players back for finals.
 

TiggerMan22

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 3, 2012
12,183
22,001
AFL Club
Richmond
some melts here. how long before we get a time for dimma to go thread.?:rolleyes: we've had a good run with injury in recent years. keeping the best 22 together is just so important. have a look at any of the recent flag wins and you'll see that club has had the best 22 available when it counts. this year has been a disaster injury wise and has been the major factor in our disappointing season.
Yep. Injury wise we have struggled early in the year the last few years, but post bye our best 22 was almost injury free each time all the way to the flag.. Graham in the prelim in 2019, Soldo last year. And thats it? Any other best 22 missing any finals games? A few like Dusty playing injured in 2018 I guess.
 

banzai

Premiership Player
Oct 14, 2003
3,768
3,212
AFL Club
Richmond
Yep. Injury wise we have struggled early in the year the last few years, but post bye our best 22 was almost injury free each time all the way to the flag.. Graham in the prelim in 2019, Soldo last year. And thats it? Any other best 22 missing any finals games? A few like Dusty playing injured in 2018 I guess.
Last year we didn't get the players back until way later. Houli, Nank, Astbury very late in the season. Edwards last game. Prestia finals. Was really a remarkable job to get top 4. Lynch missed the final we lost as Chol was a disaster.
 

Oshka

Club Legend
Suspended
Mar 5, 2021
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I don’t think any of them should retire, bar Houli. Cotchin, Jack and Astbury can certainly still play roles, but they should not be automatic starters. We need a coach who has the balls to play guys on their form rather than their reputation.

Next season should be a transition period. If we do it all at once it will get seriously ugly. You can’t cut half a dozen senior players and throw the kids to the wolves. These guys definitely have more footy left. Probably not 22 games a season but they will certainly be good squad options to have.

The other alternative is we reload for next year and give it one last crack. Maybe they just need a long break and a full pre-season. With a freshened squad, some new players and coaches, I would not be surprised if we were in contention again next year.

Guys like Castagna, Aarts, Caddy, McIntosh, Chol, DES, etc. are the genuine list cloggers who need to go before our champions.
 

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Bazzar

Hall of Famer
May 8, 2007
48,019
69,658
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No one can keep a golden period up.

After Lions 3-peat ending in '03 , out in '04 finals, next final win '09,
Cats 3 in 5 years, hangs on to ageing players then tops up and haven't won a flag since,
Hawks after 3-peat went out in straight sets in '16 and '18 never seen again (new coach appointed)

Those three sides were all class and quality and better lists than ours but couldn't keep it up.

Should the Tiges follow a similar strategy as the three above that obviously failed, or should we be proactive and think about off- loading our 5 oldest players (who haven't had an impact this year) and re-shape the club for a serious short term shot at a few more flags.
 

Football Tragic

Club Legend
Nov 11, 2010
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Until there are players that outperform them, they stay. Houli is the only one in that boat for mine. Jack and Cotch provide as much off the the field as on it. They are both our biggest leaders and drivers of our culture that has been the envy of all other clubs. The writing is definitely on the wall for both but I think Cotch has one more year left in him after handing over the captaincy at the end of this year and Jack has another year pushing up the wing from half forward.

I have to say though, the cupboard is pretty bare when you look to replace these flag stars. On there day, all three are all still match winners. The problem is is that those games are becoming increasingly less.

I don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater quite yet but we need to look to replace them soon - sadly
 
Apr 27, 2014
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I think the problem is more in the Coaching Department as we are around 2016 level atm. KDH has lost most of his assistances and is now clueless. For example Pickett in the ruck was dead and buried months ago, but it's still happening. Try at least Astbury who was near enough useless down back and bring a taller guy into the ruck. Jack is not finished as our mids are slow and well beaten on a week to week basis. Cotchin and Edwards are sadly done with Caddy and Houli so their fat contracts are costing us a trade for a bigger fish. Hawthorn didn't fail bc they delisted their stalwarts, they failed with what they replaced them with. They chose poorly. lol
 

tigerfan1961

Club Legend
Apr 18, 2007
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I understand respect that, but what they can't always foresee is form and decline. Would he have predicted some of our older players to drop off like this or some youngsters not to come on?

Sometimes original plans need adjusted because things don't go as expected.
That’s true, no doubt.
But having listened to his presentations and spoken to him personally after AGM’s etc, he will do what’s necessary. If things have changed with respect to senior players future form prospects, I’m confident he’ll act as required.
 

Vassp

Premiership Player
Jun 30, 2018
3,127
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I think they all played pretty good footy early this year, so what changed?

their bodies? Who knows....Because it was not just them.

think they all earnt one more year, stay on as teaches and guides to our younger players.
 

Mr Magic

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 1, 2010
19,503
12,243
AFL Club
Richmond
At the end of the year:
Cotchin, Riewoldt, Houli.

It's a hard call, but tell me I'm wrong?

These guys are only going to decline further and are finished.

A chance to send them off against the Hawks in the final round at the MCG would be my recommendation.
your wrong, can't tell you because you can't hear me
 

wegetpumped

Premiership Player
Apr 12, 2015
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Central Victoria Bendigo
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Has anyone actually considered that while Jack has been down since Lynch's return Tom's return has gone significantly up (8 in two games).
For some perspective, pre layoff Tom had kicked 8 in his last 5 games.

It's not that probable that either of them will kick bags of 3 or 4 goals each a game especially with the way we are currently playing.

CCJ, Lynch & Jack in 2022 will be great and gives us solid insurance if any of them go down and that's very likely when you see Tom's historical record.
If we only have CCJ & Lynch i'd be extremely nervous if Lynch couldn't get through a complete season. Far too much weight on CCJ's shoulders.
Pre layoff he was playing injured his hand and b his leg so much so he missed the unmissable. He is one example of our failings this season as you don't play injured players and you don't rush them back.
 

wegetpumped

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Apr 12, 2015
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i think Jack and cotch should go 1 more each. But i think houli might retire and possibly Astbury too. Could only really afford for 2 to retire this year, if they do.
To be fair Ash has come back to his old self. Has freshened up got over his niggles and is moving great no way he will go. Houli unfortunately is gone.
 

RJK Tiger

Club Legend
Oct 29, 2020
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I know the injuries have certainly taken a toll, but i don't think that is influencing the obvious ageing in the legs of Cotchin Houli & Riewoldt. I think all 3 should likely retire this year. If they are not, then i think all 3 should be rested for the rest of this season and then go into 2022 with a big rest and full pre-season.
I see no value in Cotchin or Jack playing on if they are not going to have a HUGE rest prior to the season to give them the best chance of being healthy and motivated for 2022. Let them have 3 legit months off to spend with their family, then decide if they really want to go back for "1 more year"
 

RJK Tiger

Club Legend
Oct 29, 2020
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To be fair Ash has come back to his old self. Has freshened up got over his niggles and is moving great no way he will go. Houli unfortunately is gone.

I think that is a bit of a stretch on Astbury. He looked a bit better, but i thought he still looks easily exposed 1 on 1. If he played on he will be a "C"grade KPD who every now and then will give you a "B" level performance
 

RunningBounce

Premiership Player
Jun 12, 2013
4,406
9,977
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How many club champions do we actually need to delist? How many spaces do we actually need to open up? What, maybe 6 or 7?

There's a few players who have had years at the club, had their swing at seniors and probably aren't ever going to be high-level contributors. There's four on my list. That's two or three club champ retirements required.

Let's just remember how the Graeme Richmond approach to handling this worked out, and what the connection in the playing group delivered.
 

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