News Club to launch external review of football department!

Remove this Banner Ad

Sickblue

Debutant
Jan 15, 2018
80
363
AFL Club
Carlton
Personally don’t have an issue with Lloyd, unlike some others at our club he seems to have a hard edge and I personally hope we keep him. He was praised last year as a key driver behind our strong unity and cohesion in the hub and I hope we keep him on. Also, heard Barker on SEN and whilst he comes across as an absolutely ripping bloke (as all that know him will attest to) his insights and analysis were streets, suburbs and bloody counties behind the analysis and insights that Leppa has given us in the same role.

coaches I want to see us retain: Power (no brainer) and Daniel O’Keffee. You can bookmark Power being kept and I really hope we don’t overreact and bin O’keffee as I feel he has a lot to offer on the development front;

coaches to say goodbye to:

barker already gone, Amos, Bruce, Stanton

assuming we keep Teague that would allow us to bring in 4 new coaches. I think anymore changes than this would be absolute overkill. Time will tell.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
31,041
85,317
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
The game plan is certainly an issue.
But not bringing in any new assistants was also a very clear mistake.
Keeping Barker into his 11th year at the club was inexplicable, and that's not a hindsight call.

And again, the buck ultimately stops with Lloyd.
Why just mention Barker and not every single other assistant?

Not going to have another circular discussion again regarding this topic, so I will leave you with this example, as you or anyone else would not have a clue, so please stop posting like you are enlightening people

You work for a publically visible company, which is underperforming versus expectations and or industry competition, due to the strategy set by your boss

Should my conclusion be that you and the rest of the team are incompetent due to your length of tenure and or that you simply exist?

Stop posting like you think it's fact that we would be in a different position if we had replaced every assistant
 

Log in to remove this ad.

SkyhorseTamer

Norm Smith Medallist
Jun 4, 2016
9,480
26,308
AFL Club
Carlton
Herald Sun article is nothing but unadulterated trash and speculation.

Nothing to see there whatsoever.

Someone pasted it onto a r/AFL thread over on Reddit. Not linking directly but it's easy to spot if you sort by new.
That article had not one semblance of credibility... speculation on speculation on speculation.
But what if, and here me out here, what if... Its not speculation. None of those claims are unbelievable or outlandish.
 

BigFrizz36

Premiership Player
Mar 20, 2017
4,529
14,278
AFL Club
Carlton
No, there was a soft cap amnesty on sacking coaches for last year, we could have cleared them all out if we wanted to. Teague wanted to keep them. Lloyd should have over-ruled because aside from there being clear issues last year, you need new blood and ideas, or you stagnate. Especially with a rookie senior coach.

The 'lack of ability' is in the results. Our Football Department (which includes all facets of football operations, that's what it is) is dysfunctional
to the point of us commissioning an external review. Lloyd is in charge of all of it.
Apologies but I can't find any mention of this amnesty that you mention. It seems that the cap was cut by well over $3mill towards the end of July 2020. By august1 we had to notify all assistant coaches as to what we were doing for 2021. Some like Rocca amongst others were let go.

My understanding is that if assistant coaches had contracts for 2021 they either had to be retained or paid out from the 2021 soft cap.

My search for soft cap amnesty/moratorium was far from exhaustive though so appreciate if you can post info showing details I would appreciate.
 

Wickzki

Not Sam McClure
Oct 1, 2010
18,650
34,418
Not the media
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blazers, Seahawks, Angels
But what if, and here me out here, what if... Its not speculation. None of those claims are unbelievable or outlandish.
Y'know what? If we didn't know what we already know from reading here the article would have me until the trade discussion.

Look at who they list as being on the trade table.

The club isn't going to give up on Saad or Williams after one season. Two reasons

1. Their return will not come remotely close to the investment put into them
2. It would turn off every player agent and out of contract player from ever signing here.

It reads exactly as Fish Sticks post last week read. It's a collection of all of the known facts and solid rumors that have been posted here for month with too many cheries on top.

There's some truth in it no doubt but it's spun heavily.
 

BigFrizz36

Premiership Player
Mar 20, 2017
4,529
14,278
AFL Club
Carlton
Sorry, but in the post I read much of it was outlandish but, sadly, not totally unbelievable.
It was really with even a simple amount of consideration.

The report has not been completed or written up yet. If you accept that as the truth then clearly the article is completely fabricated.
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
4,485
12,961
the wilderness
AFL Club
Carlton
Why just mention Barker and not every single other assistant?

Not going to have another circular discussion again regarding this topic, so I will leave you with this example, as you or anyone else would not have a clue, so please stop posting like you are enlightening people

You work for a publically visible company, which is underperforming versus expectations and or industry competition, due to the strategy set by your boss

Should my conclusion be that you and the rest of the team are incompetent due to your length of tenure and or that you simply exist?

Stop posting like you think it's fact that we would be in a different position if we had replaced every assistant
The staff member has survived three previous managers in a ten year period with results ranging from mediocre to catastrophic - all any of us are doing is drawing inferences, and you can draw a sizeable one from the fact that JB walked as soon as the review was announced
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
31,041
85,317
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
The staff member has survived three previous managers in a ten year period with results ranging from mediocre to catastrophic - all any of us are doing is drawing inferences, and you can draw a sizeable one from the fact that JB walked as soon as the review was announced
Again, why are you focusing on one assistant given the rhetoric was turning over all our assistants?
 

BigFrizz36

Premiership Player
Mar 20, 2017
4,529
14,278
AFL Club
Carlton
From the big paper.


‘Some of the findings are said to include a lack of player development, player “cliques” ...’
Same made up article, same Murdoch pike of junk but if possible planted even further to the right than the H/S.

Hard to report on actual findings when there are none as yet..
 

FitzroyBlueBagger

FitzroyBlueBagger
Sep 30, 2018
4,569
10,330
Fitzroy
AFL Club
Carlton
So you review the person you intend to replace. How unbiased and professional is that? I hope that does not occur, as we will truly become the laughing stock of the AFL.
He retired from Collingwood as football manager last year after quite a lot of poor decisions were made by the club which has ended up reflecting substantially poor by many with high and important roles at the club...
I know he has a tonne of experience from a very long 35 year career in football, but was surprised he was part of this current review, anyway find it highly unlikely that he would be considered for Lloyds position...
 

(Log in to remove this ad.)

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
4,485
12,961
the wilderness
AFL Club
Carlton
Again, why are you focusing on one assistant given the rhetoric was turning over all our assistants?
JB's track record or lack thereof stands out from the pack - reckon Stanton out of the others needs to go, but it's harder to make educated guesses particularly when the likes of Bruce and Amos came from successful organisations previously
 

Wickzki

Not Sam McClure
Oct 1, 2010
18,650
34,418
Not the media
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blazers, Seahawks, Angels
From the big paper.


‘Some of the findings are said to include a lack of player development, player “cliques” ...’
I can't comment on player cliques. That's not something that I have insight on but insofar as player development is concerned:

Just quietly how good has our development truly been this year?

  • Harry becoming a Coleman favorite
  • Dow coming back and showing consistent development
  • Weitering and Walsh entering beast mode of their careers
  • LOB and Honey both showing off what they've learned in their time out of the side tonight
  • Jack Silvagni going from fringe 22 to absolute lock for 22 and doing vital things every week
  • Matt Kennedy's resurgence as an AFL player
  • Liam Stocker dominating in the VFL, getting an opportunity, and absolutely owning it.
  • Despite injury TDK has continued his emergence
  • Matt Owies becoming a handy player with pressure acts
Surely we need to give credit where it's due for the development of these players.
What were people wanting?

That's 11 (9 if you don't include LOB and Honey) of our 22 from Friday night who have noticeably improved this year.
 

Metalcrusher

A God Amongst The People
Jan 22, 2015
28,800
66,651
Kalgoorlie
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blackburn United EPL ... sorta
I can't comment on player cliques. That's not something that I have insight on but insofar as player development is concerned:



What were people wanting?

That's 11 (9 if you don't include LOB and Honey) of our 22 from Friday night who have noticeably improved this year.
Well since you asked, a flag wouldn't go astray ....
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
31,041
85,317
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
JB's track record or lack thereof stands out from the pack - reckon Stanton out of the others needs to go, but it's harder to make educated guesses particularly when the likes of Bruce and Amos came from successful organisations previously
Have already refuted this so called "track record" of JB. So unless you have any facts, move on

As per my original post, you wouldn't have a clue
 

El Topo

Premiership Player
Jun 18, 2013
4,485
12,961
the wilderness
AFL Club
Carlton
Have already refuted this so called "track record" of JB. So unless you have any facts, move on

As per my original post, you wouldn't have a clue
No need to get personal, one of us has the intellectual honesty to know that this is all a guessing exercise and it's not you. One might say you've been refuted by Barker's almost immediate sacking after the review was called - reality comes at you fast.
 

Stamos

Brownlow Medallist
Mar 30, 2010
16,148
29,148
AFL Club
Carlton
Again, why are you focusing on one assistant given the rhetoric was turning over all our assistants?
No, the rhetoric was about not turning over ANY of the assistants
I don't think anyone was claiming we should have sacked them all last year.
 

Arr0w

Hall of Famer
Nov 13, 2015
31,041
85,317
In Transit
AFL Club
Carlton
No need to get personal, one of us has the intellectual honesty to know that this is all a guessing exercise and it's not you. One might say you've been refuted by Barker's almost immediate sacking after the review was called - reality comes at you fast.
Wasn't getting personal at all, when I say you, I mean everyone that isn't in the inner sanctum

Again, I have refuted it with facts, not opinion

But once again, why are you focusing on one assistant when I was replying to a collective

That's the reality
 

Wickzki

Not Sam McClure
Oct 1, 2010
18,650
34,418
Not the media
AFL Club
Carlton
Other Teams
Blazers, Seahawks, Angels
...and while I’m here, what the hell is Selection Integrity??

Is it like ‘Football Philosophy’....my personal favourite.👍
Selection integrity is the same as selecting players on merit and not as some people like to consider it, selecting your favorite players and anything less is bogus.
 

Remove this Banner Ad

Remove this Banner Ad