Co-Captains. WHY?

[Strapping Young Lad]

 

[moginie]

Before an 'I' but not after 'c' and when it is a French translation.

 

[ReturningHawk]

Why the personal attack about maturity? Not sure what as this discussion has to do about opinion.

I've stated my piece and based on my own experiences, mostly in private industry, do not necessarily agree with the approach. Why do I need to "imagine" it will be a raging success do you want me to "manifest" the outcome?

It's ok to agree to disagree.

I ask you to display more maturity because I’m sure you possess it. I also didn’t anticipate we would ever have co-captains, and never thought Newc looked like he wanted to be a captain - seemed more introverted to me. I had assumed that Moore or Day were at the front of the queue.

But when the club makes a perfectly reasonable decision like this, I just respect the fact that it’s been made in consultation with the likes of Mitchell, Ratten and Hickmott who have spent the last few years guiding us from strength to strength as an organisation.

If it goes against your preferences, no problem, we all have our wishes. But to actually hop behind your keyboard and start a thread to voice your displeasure instead of congratulating Jai feels disrespectful to me. There’s no reason why this appointment won’t make our team stronger. The entire case against co-captains rests on “the vibe of the thing”.

 

[Yardie]

I ask you to display more maturity because I’m sure you possess it. I also didn’t anticipate we would ever have co-captains, and never thought Newc looked like he wanted to be a captain - seemed more introverted to me. I had assumed that Moore or Day were at the front of the queue.

But when the club makes a perfectly reasonable decision like this, I just respect the fact that it’s been made in consultation with the likes of Mitchell, Ratten and Hickmott who have spent the last few years guiding us from strength to strength as an organisation.

If it goes against your preferences, no problem, we all have our wishes. But to actually hop behind your keyboard and start a thread to voice your displeasure instead of congratulating Jai feels disrespectful to me. There’s no reason why this appointment won’t make our team stronger. The entire case against co-captains rests on “the vibe of the thing”.

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I lack maturity. I just don't agree. You'll have to learn how to cope with that.

And this is a forum to discuss the club, and generally the decisions they make. I'm sure that Jai can cope with a bit of criticism of the decision for co-captains (and not him), otherwise he wouldn't be leadership material.

 

[Dewnior]

I’m not a fan of co-captains.

There is an old saying that too many chefs spoil the broth.

The captain is the one that sets the standards. They are the public face.

The captain doesn't set the standards, the coaching team do. The captain upholds and reinforces them.

 

[tommyk72]

The captain doesn't set the standards, the coaching team do. The captain upholds and reinforces them.

These days, it's normally the whole group setting the standards, no?

 

[ReturningHawk]

Just because I don't agree with you doesn't mean I lack maturity. I just don't agree. You'll have to learn how to cope with that.

And this is a forum to discuss the club, and generally the decisions they make. I'm sure that Jai can cope with a bit of criticism of the decision for co-captains (and not him), otherwise he wouldn't be leadership material.

Yardie, mate, you started a thread questioning the club with the word “WHY?” in all caps. Not exactly defensible as a mature response.

 

[Yardie]

Yardie, mate, you started a thread questioning the club with the word “WHY?” in all caps. Not exactly defensible as a mature response.

Really, that is what you are going with......FMD

 

[JD1992]

Why Newcombe, I look at his finals performances, he lifts in big games.
This may be a way for the coaches to get him to perform at that level more often.....this is just me musing

 

[Blackhawk42]

I've seen a few people mention that they are mostly surprised by the call because they considered Jai to be the more introverted type.

They must not have watched this video.



He simply doesn't really raise his voice. He just gets along with absolutely everyone and always speaks with conviction. For whatever reason, that's misconstrued as being 'introverted'.

 

[Rushed_Behind]

What's next? Co-wives?

If we’re the Saudi Hawks would be a possibility

 

[ReturningHawk]

I've seen a few people mention that they are mostly surprised by the call because they considered Jai to be the more introverted type.

They must not have watched this video.



He simply doesn't really raise his voice. He just gets along with absolutely everyone and always speaks with conviction. For whatever reason, that's misconstrued as being 'introverted'.

Nothing wrong with being introverted, even as a leader. Jai always struck me, like Blake Hardwick, as a “get the job done” kind of player who didn’t seem anxious or emotional about the game. I’m not saying that as a negative comment at all. But of course I don’t really know the guy and he certainly led from the front in September. I’m looking forward to see how he grows in the role. Seems like the type who thrives on new challenges.

 

[unitedhawk2]

Nothing wrong with being introverted, even as a leader. Jai always struck me, like Blake Hardwick, as a “get the job done” kind of player who didn’t seem anxious or emotional about the game. I’m not saying that as a negative comment at all. But of course I don’t really know the guy and he certainly led from the front in September. I’m looking forward to see how he grows in the role. Seems like the type who thrives on new challenges.

Couldn't agree more! In my own working experience, albeit in a sector unrelated to sport, I saw several examples of people who stepped up and surprised their colleagues when they took up leadership responsibilities. I have no doubt Nuke will be the same.

On a not unrelated note, when will the media stop bringing up his draft history? The Fox Sports article on the co-captaincy touted his "epic draft rise" in its headline.

I don't recall the footy media going on and on about James Hird having been drafted with pick 70+.

 

[eldorado]

The captain doesn't set the standards, the coaching team do. The captain upholds and reinforces them.

This is pretty much my position.

There is only one captain of the ship, and that is Sam Mitchell, the head of the chain of command.

The position we traditionally call 'captain', in this light, is really more of a lieutenant, responsible for ensuring the commands are followed.

And with 23 players, rather then the significantly smaller number in most other sports, I'm happy with more than one lieutenant...

I was a little bit taken back when the announcement was made, but when I started thinking about chain of command, and the metaphor outlined above, I realized that most of my reservations were more based on tradition, and pre-existing connotations associated with the word "captain", rather then the real implications of the decision on clear messaging and command structure.

 

[peetoo]

Tucky was quite introvert. He went OK it doesn’t rule you out of leadership if we look at the latest thinking on leadership

 

[Mercy Seat]

I’m quite surprised by the decision to go down this path and am intuitively against it for the same reason I would be against us having two senior coaches.

I just think a singular voice and singular point of accountability works better for leadership positions and have seen in the workplace where things can get murky with style of messaging between different people.

That said, I trust the club to know a lot more than me about the dynamics here and look forward to seeing how it’s implemented.

 

[tommyk72]

I would be very reluctant to join an organisation in a team which had one manager and 23 team members. The amount of time per staff member would be tiny. I'm applying a similar perspective here, and think it will add value. Particularly as Sic is down back, and so he spends a lot less time with the forward group. I think having Newk as a co-captain, who has a presence across the whole field, will ultimately strengthen us.

 

[ReturningHawk]

I would be very reluctant to join an organisation in a team which had one manager and 23 team members. The amount of time per staff member would be tiny. I'm applying a similar perspective here, and think it will add value. Particularly as Sic is down back, and so he spends a lot less time with the forward group. I think having Newk as a co-captain, who has a presence across the whole field, will ultimately strengthen us.

One of the main reasons could be as simple as that, we’re packed with experience down back and pretty green everywhere else. Jai is already the player directing traffic at stoppages.

 

[kazzooka]

I would be very reluctant to join an organisation in a team which had one manager and 23 team members. The amount of time per staff member would be tiny. I'm applying a similar perspective here, and think it will add value. Particularly as Sic is down back, and so he spends a lot less time with the forward group. I think having Newk as a co-captain, who has a presence across the whole field, will ultimately strengthen us.

A captain is different to a manager though. However I do agree with your premise that more leaders are expected in most workplaces. An example from my field in I.T but applies to most customer service teams.

We have a service desk of about 50 service techs people (similar to an AFL list size slightly bigger) We have 2 Managers Regional and Metro (lets call that AFL and VFL coaches) Then we have a handful of subject matter experts that will advise the service techs but don't do support work themselves. They might set up documentation systems, run training sessions, establish standard operating procedures and manage the tools we use. These would be like the assistant coaches.

Then amongst the 50 team members, we have about 5 delegated "Team Leaders" these people will work closely with 10 or so people. They are still in the trenches doing the day to day work. But they need to assist the juniors, supervise them and correct their mistakes. This is what your captain and leadership group do in a AFL playing list.

In modern football what duties does the role of captain now have, and why does it need to be 1 person?

Duties

• Attend the coin and point.
• Give a pump up chat in the huddle
• Front the media as a representative of the club
• Hold up the cup after a premiership.
• Lead by example with dedication to training*
• Lead by example with adhering to team rules (in game and behaviour)*
• Assist the playing group at training and off field, offer advice, mentoring and supervision. *
• Assist the okaying group at training with advice, mentoring and supervision. Ensure they know what they should be doing and correct them if they aren't doing the right thing or putting in effort.*

Ideally the whole playing group is on board and doing the 4 duties with the * and our Co-Captains seem pretty good with those 4 as well. So Jai and James need to work out who does the coin toss, huddle chat, pressers and they can go up together to get the cup.

 

[grumbleguts]

Good take.

It's a shit take. "It works for Brisbane..."

Far more likely is Brisbane said "Hawthorn are probably going to do this in the future, we should copy."

 

[H00t]

Personally I feel outside of media commitments outside of the game and tradition the captain role is mainly symbolic.

Most of the onfield leadership should come from the senior players anyway not just one person. As they all work together to ensure the game-plan is enacted.

Pregame speeches can be done by any player, same with tossing the coin.

It’s not like it’s cricket where you need a captain to set the field and pick bowlers.

Honestly having more captains to spread the media load makes sense

 

[Yardie]

Personally I feel outside of media commitments outside of the game and tradition the captain role is mainly symbolic.

Most of the onfield leadership should come from the senior players anyway not just one person. As they all work together to ensure the game-plan is enacted.

Pregame speeches can be done by any player, same with tossing the coin.

It’s not like it’s cricket where you need a captain to set the field and pick bowlers.

Honestly having more captains to spread the media load makes sense

Vice-Captains maybe....

 

[Sixpence]

I suppose it could be worse, we could have Liam Baker

3

Liam Baker

Age

28

Ht

173cm

Wt

72kg

Pos.

M/F

Career

Season

Last 5

D

15.7

4star

K

7.8

3star

HB

7.9

5star

M

3.2

3star

T

2.6

4star

CL

0.7

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

6.8

3star

HB

7.9

4star

M

3.8

4star

T

1.8

3star

CL

0.5

3star

D

14.4

4star

K

6.2

3star

HB

8.2

5star

M

1.6

2star

T

1.8

4star

CL

1.2

4star

as Captain ...

 

[Mitchell Madness]

Those complaining still, its like having a COO and CEO.

 

[Sixpence]

Those complaining still, its like having a COO and CEO.

Not really, a COO sits under a CEO. A COO would be more akin to a Vice-Captain.

 

[unitedhawk2]

Given the discussion has moved on to co-CEOs, here's an extract from Google AI:

High-Profile Corporate Examples

• Netflix (2020–Present): Reed Hastings moved to executive chairman, appointing Ted Sarandos and Greg Peters as co-CEOs to share strategic oversight and operational management.
• KKR & Co. (2021–Present): Following decades of co-leadership by founders Henry Kravis and George Roberts, the firm appointed Scott Nuttall and Joseph Bae as co-CEOs.
• Oracle (2014–2019): Safra Catz and Mark Hurd were appointed co-CEOs, with responsibilities split between operations/finance (Catz) and sales/services (Hurd).
• Vontobel (2024–Present): Georg Schubiger (Wealth Management) and Dr. Christel Rendu de Lint (Investments) were appointed co-CEOs to ensure a unified vision across different business units.
• Salesforce (2018–2020): Keith Block was appointed co-CEO alongside Marc Benioff to manage operational growth.
• Intel (2024): David Zinsner and Michelle (MJ) Johnston Holthaus were appointed as interim co-CEOs.

Key Drivers and Structures

• Complementary Strengths: In many cases, one leader focuses on internal operations/finance while the other focuses on external growth/sales.
• Mergers and Acquisitions: This model is often used to merge two companies, allowing leaders from both entities to maintain power and reduce integration friction.
• Family-Run Businesses: Companies like J.M. Smucker have successfully used this model, with Timothy and Richard Smucker acting as co-CEOs to leverage shared trust.

Limitations
While successful in many cases, the model can struggle during crises requiring rapid, singular decision-making. For example, SAP and Unilever both reverted to a single CEO model after experiencing performance issues or needing to accelerate decision-making.