Coach Grumpy

[Altum Volantes]

Ok so let me start by saying I am 100% a big supporter of JL. I’m a proud West Aussie and have followed his career basically since debut for WA. He’s the ultimate underdog come good and he’s been an excellent servant of Australian cricket.

That said, clearly he doesn’t have the support of the players - I’d suggest particularly the now Senior players such as the new Captain.

It is a disappointing way to see him finish up but if it took JL taking a ‘step back’ for team harmony to return, and he doesn’t see that aligning with what he best offers as a coach, then it’s probably time for him to move on and look to appoint more of a back-room operator ala John Buchanan that won’t draw attention to the role and likely be more flexible to the team to defining the coach role moving forward.

 

[Purple Suit]

The truth is somewhere in the middle; second best coaching record behind Buchanan despite missing his two best players for a year, first person to retain the Ashes in England in almost 20 years, first T20 title. A good coach combines tactics with people management but it seems like had taken that on board over the last year. CA dithered, refused to make a proper decision, so he took the decision out of their hands. Don’t think CA or the players come out of this looking good.

Except CA basically fired him offering him 1 year and I’m guessing worse money despite his success.

Normally you lock away performers but the weak board are again letting the tail wag the dog and we know where that culture leads.

 

[deanc]

I don't blame Langer if he wanted to sign up for England... they'd probably take him in a heartbeat despite their own challenges ahead.

Think Gillespie and/or McDonald will be candidates for the Australian job.

Ironically the Poms have sacked Silverwood for the opposing reasons Langer is no longer Australia's coach..!

i.e. Poor on field results, relating to the fact Silverwood was too focused on team harmony/being mates with everyone and not making tough decisions - ha ha...

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I back Cummins 100%. The coach has minimal impact on results and the last thing you want is an obsessive compupsive coach having a go at the players every 5 minutes.
The captain should be in charge.

Agree with this, captains run cricket teams . The problem is though that we made the coach the most important person, once that happened then the buck dtops with the coach. His rules.
I do not like one bit how much power the players have these days, it is a privilege to play for your country and you should not be getting a say how it goes.
Players unions have stuffed sport across the board. They need to just play and be very happy they got selected. Do what your told when your told.

 

[Purple Suit]

What are you basing that on as claiming he's got the second best coaching record is highly suspect. Given we've barely toured under his tenture makes that pretty irrelevant to me.

He won 2 Ashes trophies & a T20 WC final. 2 of those came in the past 6 months and we sack him.

Bloody disgraceful.

 

[two blue tiger]

Never a Langer fan. Seems his style was all “come on boys” and little else……

 

[Westend]

Respectfully, there's little sense in anything you just posted..!

A black mark on Cummins - you mean a skipper that has been in the job for 5 minutes wisely refusing to give the media a headline..?

Bayliss is predominately a media suggestion, stranger things have happened but I doubt he even wants the position..?

Clear what air - Australia just won the T20 WC and the Ashes 4-0, you mean the air of success..?
And if we are to believe some media reports that a few senior snowflake players were not happy with JL's apparent discipline and demanding coaching style, he is a fluffy bunny compared to RT Ponting..!

Umm yes there is what have you been watching?? like it or not cummins is part of this and not publicly backing the coach has given the media a headline

Speculation for Cummins mates bayliss getting the gig has been around for ages and its only going to intensify

Clear the air not the team but for Cummins by picking a coach other than bayliss ....if bayliss gets picked it will only go to justify and the speculation increases...perhaps i should of said a clean start

Lol you might be right about Punter as the senior players have shown they are snowflakes so he might be too harsh for them

 

[Westend]

Never a Langer fan. Seems his style was all “come on boys” and little else……

at least he didn't get his players to use sandpaper on the ball to get it to swing

oh thats right some of those players are still there

 

[Altum Volantes]

Agree with this, captains run cricket teams . The problem is though that we made the coach the most important person, once that happened then the buck dtops with the coach. His rules.
I do not like one bit how much power the players have these days, it is a privilege to play for your country and you should not be getting a say how it goes.
Players unions have stuffed sport across the board. They need to just play and be very happy they got selected. Do what your told when your told.

To be fair, they made the new coach the most ‘important’ person because the players (ie the former Captain and VC) absolutely disgraced themselves and seemingly the ‘top bloke’ coach (Lehmann) was either fully aware and complicit or disregarded enough for it to happen on his watch.

Langer was within his rights (and probably initial directive) to take charge and run a tight ship - whether that time has now passed is what is up for debate.

 

[Carbine Chaos]

Never a Langer fan. Seems his style was all “come on boys” and little else……

I don't think there is much doubt over his capacity as a coach. It's his man management that's come under question.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

I don't think there is much doubt over his capacity as a coach. It's his man management that's come under question.

Why is sport these days giving players so much of a say? Why is it not enough to be selected and just do your best. Players have way to much power.

 

[Plugger35]

I don't blame Langer if he wanted to sign up for England... they'd probably take him in a heartbeat despite their own challenges ahead.

Think Gillespie and/or McDonald will be candidates for the Australian job.

Not sure England would be that keen to snap up Langer with all this talk of him losing the players and not supporting him to continue on as coach.

If the Australian players have issues with him then more than likely the England players would too, especially with him being Australian and not English.

Not sure Langer would want to coach England either, although he might be tempted to just to stick it up Cricket Australia and the players that wanted him gone.

Just imagine if he was coaching England for the next Ashes series and won the series, that would make CA and those players that wanted him gone look very silly.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Agree with this, captains run cricket teams . The problem is though that we made the coach the most important person, once that happened then the buck dtops with the coach. His rules.
I do not like one bit how much power the players have these days, it is a privilege to play for your country and you should not be getting a say how it goes.
Players unions have stuffed sport across the board. They need to just play and be very happy they got selected. Do what your told when your told.

So if we lose in Pakistan Cummins gets the sack right?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

To be fair, they made the new coach the most ‘important’ person because the players (ie the former Captain and VC) absolutely disgraced themselves and seemingly the ‘top bloke’ coach (Lehmann) was either fully aware and complicit or disregarded enough for it to happen on his watch.

Langer was within his rights (and probably initial directive) to take charge and run a tight ship - whether that time has now passed is what is up for debate.

Cricket went 100 years not needing a coach, to be honest they don’t even need one. The Captain should be in charge.
But if you have a coach then he is.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Never a Langer fan. Seems his style was all “come on boys” and little else……

Seriously?

Read anything about him and his leadership and it’s a bit more than ‘come on boys’.

The whole issue here is that he wanted it done his way, built on a culture he put in place, done to his standards.

He’s very much a ‘I run this joint’ coach ala Alastair Clarkson, Mick Malthouse and Kevin Sheedy

It worked for WA Cricket.

Harder to maintain at a National level with many agendas at play.

Your ‘Come on Boys’ coach is Darren Lehmann - great for moral and everyone ‘enjoying their cricket again’.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

So if we lose in Pakistan Cummins gets the sack right?

He is the golden boy, will never get sacked unless he texts something he shouldn’t

 

[Phone]

Except CA basically fired him offering him 1 year and I’m guessing worse money despite his success.

Normally you lock away performers but the weak board are again letting the tail wag the dog and we know where that culture leads.

yeah it's crazy that the board wasn't willing to offer a long term deal to someone that was almost sacked a year ago and had their job re-wired

 

[deanc]

Ok so let me start by saying I am 100% a big supporter of JL. I’m a proud West Aussie and have followed his career basically since debut for WA. He’s the ultimate underdog come good and he’s been an excellent servant of Australian cricket.

That said, clearly he doesn’t have the support of the players - I’d suggest particularly the now Senior players such as the new Captain.

It is a disappointing way to see him finish up but if it took JL taking a ‘step back’ for team harmony to return, and he doesn’t see that aligning with what he best offers as a coach, then it’s probably time for him to move on and look to appoint more of a back-room operator ala John Buchanan that won’t draw attention to the role and likely be more flexible to the team to defining the coach role moving forward.

Fair comment, but remember Buchanan and Waugh were a formidable team, that we will probably never see again, mainly as Waugh was also a selector and while Buchanan may have appeared 'back-room', from what I've read, this 'mental disintegration' tactic wasn't entirely Waugh's concept...

 

[footyfan1978]

To be fair, they made the new coach the most ‘important’ person because the players (ie the former Captain and VC) absolutely disgraced themselves and seemingly the ‘top bloke’ coach (Lehmann) was either fully aware and complicit or disregarded enough for it to happen on his watch.

Langer was within his rights (and probably initial directive) to take charge and run a tight ship - whether that time has now passed is what is up for debate.

I think overall it good timing for all the wrong reasons.
They certainly needed a character like Langer to get the ship back on track from where it was shipwrecked. I do not think they need that style now as he taught those players what they needed to know around all that period and this last six months shows the balance is more how it needed to be and the team ethos looks much better now. I not sure how much more they need so a coach more in background there to help when needed I think would be good going forward. Langer for most of media is too intense a character so they would like a change for their own narratives and the Cricket board have been weak and tried to only have Langer be in charge a little longer. Rightly, Langer having no part of it.

 

[Altum Volantes]

Fair comment, but remember Buchanan and Waugh were a formidable team, that we will probably never see again, mainly as Waugh was also a selector and while Buchanan may have appeared 'back-room', from what I've read, this 'mental disintegration' tactic wasn't entirely Waugh's concept...

Very true - the role of a coach in that capacity relies on a strong captain.

We didn’t have one when Langer was appointed - we still don’t have one (yet) but Cummins has time to develop.

Back-room in the sense as his role and actions took place away from the media glare - they weren’t cutting to shots of John Buchanan chewing gum in the pavilion back then, you could literally forget the guy was still there for months on end.

 

[HairyO]

He won 2 Ashes trophies & a T20 WC final. 2 of those came in the past 6 months and we sack him.

Bloody disgraceful.

And England need a new coach. Just crazy.

Clarko winning a flag at GWS and Langer coaching the Poms to the next Ashes is about the worst it could get.

 

[deanc]

And England need a new coach. Just crazy.

Clarko winning a flag at GWS and Langer coaching the Poms to the next Ashes is about the worst it could get.

Strange times indeed - all we need now is Ash Barty being offered and accepting dual citizenship with the USA and then playing for them against Australia in the Davis Cup..!
Now, if someone posts this ludicrous suggestion on Twitter/FB and CC's a few media grubs, the story will be half true by this time next week..!!!

Daily Mail headline:
"Bombshell, Barty considering US citizenship offer - could play against her own country in Davis Cup!"

 

[Freezin]

Seriously?

Read anything about him and his leadership and it’s a bit more than ‘come on boys’.

The whole issue here is that he wanted it done his way, built on a culture he put in place, done to his standards.

He’s very much a ‘I run this joint’ coach ala Alastair Clarkson, Mick Malthouse and Kevin Sheedy

It worked for WA Cricket.

Harder to maintain at a National level with many agendas at play.

Your ‘Come on Boys’ coach is Darren Lehmann - great for moral and everyone ‘enjoying their cricket again’.

How did it work for WA cricket?...didn't win a shield title during Langer's coaching tenure and haven't won a Shield title since ...oh you mean the Perth Scorchers and those 3 titles under JL tenure.....WA cricket is still as lost as ever....post JL.

 

[Plugger35]

Except CA basically fired him offering him 1 year and I’m guessing worse money despite his success.

Normally you lock away performers but the weak board are again letting the tail wag the dog and we know where that culture leads.

Yeah CA basically sacked him by dragging their feet with his contract renewal and then offering him a short term contract extension that wasn't what he wanted or thought he deserved. They couldn't outright sack him after he won the Ashes and the T20 World Cup so offering him a short term contract they hoped he would refuse was the next best thing and not make them look as bad.

He clearly didn't have the support of the players either so he really had no other option but to resign and CA knew that too, why take on a short term contract extension when you know that CA and the players really don't want you to stay on and would be looking to sack you at the first opportunity.

Langer was smart enough to see the writing on the wall and chose to resign, he comes away from this looking a lot better than CA and the players.

 

[Altum Volantes]

How did it work for WA cricket?...didn't win a shield title during Langer's coaching tenure and haven't won a Shield title since ...oh you mean the Perth Scorchers and those 3 titles under JL tenure.....WA cricket is still as lost as ever....post JL.

Well I meant more in the sense that the CEO came out this morning and said ‘he’s a hard arse coach but that worked for us’.