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Carbine Chaos

Ainsworth #33
Apr 1, 2009
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''Likeable'' is pretty subjectable. The team has barely had any incidence since the sandpaper debacle, but there are still people who consider the team "unlikeable" for whatever reason. They clearly have tried to change their image.

There are just some people who just love to whinge and will always find fault no matter what the team does. Just worry about the Ws, everything else will fall into place and more people will get around the team.
I should clarify by saying I don’t think it’s all on the team itself. Though carry on before the GABBA test and the subsequent performance didn’t help their cause.

I think there’s a general discontent with CA in general which leads to a more negative perception of the side. Some of the issues range from the bloated/overly tampered with BBL, the perception the Shield is a secondary concern for them, concerns over management, scheduling issues etc.
 

Santana

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I’d say the majority of people who didn’t like the team when they were a bit worse behaved accepted it still because they were winning. They could begrudgingly cop the poor attitude or behaviour because they were getting results more often than not. But australia loves winners in sports that we are traditionally ‘supposed’ to win and as soon as that stops it becomes a more important factor in what people think about that team than the team’s image or behaviour.

we also have an attitude of backing up your words and aggression with performance. I think Australian sports fans are smart enough to see that carrying on when your results aren’t enough to give you that ‘right’ is a bad look.

those factors combined mean that any Aussie cricket team that:
- behaves like idiots without results
- behaves well but without results
Is not going to see a spike in popularity
The team hasn't been playing with hyper aggressive behaviour since the incident. Only near the end of the last India test series did things get rocky but part from that they've been fine.

I remember there were complaints from some during the early-mid 2000's that the team was winning too much. Maybe it's just me but when it comes to Cricket here there's a very high number of whingers. I don't know why but it gets annoying to follow the sport sometimes.

New Zealanders are used to their team being ordinary because they have been for so so long.
so I think they were able to look at their underperforming but generally genial and ‘nice’ side and still have an affinity for them. It just comes as a bit of a bonus now that their actual results are good too
The nice guy stuff didn't start until after Mike Hesson took over I thought. They had their moments before (2011 WC quarter final) as well as ball tempering & match fixing (that one may have come out later). Hell they had a moment last year during that Tauranga test.

I wonder how many people would have cared about all that nice guy stuff if New Zealand haven't had made it to 2 WC finals and won the WTC.

I should clarify by saying I don’t think it’s all on the team itself. Though carry on before the GABBA test and the subsequent performance didn’t help their cause.

I think there’s a general discontent with CA in general which leads to a more negative perception of the side. Some of the issues range from the bloated/overly tampered with BBL, the perception the Shield is a secondary concern for them, concerns over management, scheduling issues etc.
Pretty harsh to put some of it on the players for what their employer does though. The players have been pretty well behaved in the last 3 and a half years since sandpaper gate. Just need to get a higher level of performance.
 

PhatBoy

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The team hasn't been playing with hyper aggressive behaviour since the incident. Only near the end of the last India test series did things get rocky but part from that they've been fine.

I remember there were complaints from some during the early-mid 2000's that the team was winning too much. Maybe it's just me but when it comes to Cricket here there's a very high number of whingers. I don't know why but it gets annoying to follow the sport sometimes.


The nice guy stuff didn't start until after Mike Hesson took over I thought. They had their moments before (2011 WC quarter final) as well as ball tempering & match fixing (that one may have come out later). Hell they had a moment last year during that Tauranga test.

I wonder how many people would have cared about all that nice guy stuff if New Zealand haven't had made it to 2 WC finals and won the WTC.


Pretty harsh to put some of it on the players for what their employer does though. The players have been pretty well behaved in the last 3 and a half years since sandpaper gate. Just need to get a higher level of performance.
I think every team is going to have their moments, they all pick dickheads. As much as I’ve laughed at some of Marlon samuels’ antics - the salute was piss funny - he’s a dickhead.

NZ have their moments too. But by and large you would have to say their general ‘personality’ as a team has been pretty toned down. They had a couple of prickly guys - McMillan and Parore were two of them but even McMillian was more of a joker than an abuser. Their meanest fastest bowler pre-2010 was Shane Bond who barely said a word. Their next best quick was Martin, who was enough of a clown to finish a mock batting video with ‘like me, it’s out now.’ India under Ganguly had a more combative demeanour - the quiet Guys were a counterpoint to some real campaigners like Harbhajan, Ganguly himself, Zaheer Khan sometimes, Sreesanth etc.
 

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PhatBoy

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Talking about Chris martin made me google him. fu** there are some funny videos of him and even his cricinfo blurb is hilarious. There’s as much talk dedicated to his batting as there was to his unspectacular but respectable bowling. ‘Comically inept’ as Brydon Coverdale describes it, and he makes the grand observation that ‘dismissing Martin was as simple as making a cup of tea and generally took less time.’
 

Phone

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Lehmann was too lax, Langer too intense.

Somewhere in the middle would be ideal. Create a likeable side the nation can get around, but who plays hard on field. Somebody like a Gillespie?

At the moment they're neither.
i've seen this word used a fair bit for Langer and I don't think it suits at all. The problem is that Langer can be a dickhead when things don't go his way, we knew this when he was hired, and so it has transpired. I don't think it should be mistaken for intensity.
 

Carbine Chaos

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i've seen this word used a fair bit for Langer and I don't think it suits at all. The problem is that Langer can be a dickhead when things don't go his way, we knew this when he was hired, and so it has transpired. I don't think it should be mistaken for intensity.
I have to disagree. Having read his auto I think Langer comes across as a very intense kind of person (for better or worse).

Could be wrong, though!
 

Phone

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Oh broadly he's probably intense. But referring to the incidents that have made him look like a fool, they just seem to be when things don't go his way*. There's almost an immaturity there, although I'm sure there's a better word between immaturity and intensity. From there, players probably do walk on egg-shells around Langer and all that, but that's not because of the negativity of his intensity, that's just not knowing whether something you said or did on Monday will get a totally different reaction if you do it again on Tuesday

*given he got the job because a bunch of Australian cricketers lost their mind when AB was kicking their butts all over the place and the coach had to go, it was never quite a logical fit!
 

Pippen94

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I’d say the majority of people who didn’t like the team when they were a bit worse behaved accepted it still because they were winning. They could begrudgingly cop the poor attitude or behaviour because they were getting results more often than not. But australia loves winners in sports that we are traditionally ‘supposed’ to win and as soon as that stops it becomes a more important factor in what people think about that team than the team’s image or behaviour.

we also have an attitude of backing up your words and aggression with performance. I think Australian sports fans are smart enough to see that carrying on when your results aren’t enough to give you that ‘right’ is a bad look.

those factors combined mean that any Aussie cricket team that:
- behaves like idiots without results
- behaves well but without results
Is not going to see a spike in popularity
Plain wrong. Australian team was heavily criticized for its behavior during it's undefeated run of 2000's. Also, after test wins against India in 2007/08 & South Africa sandpapergate series.
 

corbies

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It does strike me as interesting that these articles have come out on the back of a media manager having an incident with him. I read that Conn article and just think he saw his job within Cricket Australia as way more important than it actually is.

The fact that in the article he notes that all the players bar Maxwell said they did not want to wear a mic on field and yet Langer saying to Conn that he didn't want them wearing it was a sudden obsession with things that "didn't seem to matter" is alarming to me. Not for Langer but for Conn.

I completely get what Langer was trying to do and it's actually what a lot of you have asked of the Australian T20 side. Essentially if we want to win at it we need to take it more seriously and not accept being mediocre at it. With the mic thing Langer would be trying to use that as an example to his players that playing T20 cricket for Australia is serious. Entertainment does not come above performance like in the BBL.

Then with the other incidents mentioned (the screen showing highlights of the opposition and the Bangladesh team song recently) he'd see his team struggling for confidence and he's trying to instil in them that they can win only to have people within his team who are supposed to be on their side undermining that.

A lot of you have complained that CA care more about public perception and pandering to broadcasters than the team winning. These are pretty clear examples of that for me.

Does it then show a pattern of behaviour with Langer that then negatively impacts the players? Perhaps and it may be why he's not set out to be an coach at international level given you need to adapt to the players rather than being able to bring in players who suit your style like at state/franchise level. But I can completely understand Langer's behaviour in the incidents mentioned in that article.
 

Bungeye

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Where would swimmer Ariane Titmus be, without the tough love of coach Dean Boxhall? You reckon Craig Bellamy doesn't demand high standards at the Melbourne Storm?
 

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11kgm

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Where would swimmer Ariane Titmus be, without the tough love of coach Dean Boxhall? You reckon Craig Bellamy doesn't demand high standards at the Melbourne Storm?
There is high standards then there is him yelling at players for eating whilst he was talking
 

BStaff17

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Change is needed even if we win the ashes as england are just as mediocre as us atm.

There is too much noise coming out of CA for it to be a witch hunt and for them to continue with Langer post his contract expiry wouldnt benefit both parties.

Will winning the ashes at home this summer be considered a great achievement.

Winning an ashes series at home is an non-negiotble not an achievement i would have thought.
 

Freo Big Fella

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Would be heartily amusing for him to hang on, before pulling the pin with a couple of weeks to go before the Ashes and wishing Bayliss and the rest of the NSW establishment behind these leaks the best of luck for the future. It's really what they deserve. Also telling that so much of the "player dissent" over the stretch has centred on Khawaja and Maxwell - two cricketers with massive flaws in their game that seem to treat any suggestion they need to improve as a personal slur.

There are a lot of people seemingly keen to ignore the fact that we had a coach that indulged every whim of this playing group, and sandpapergate is what resulted.
 

frankrizzo

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Exactly why are people trying to now push some narrative langer is some tough as nails coach just pushing the players hard to reach their peak? reports have been coming out now for months that he is erratic and prone to mood swing where he reacts wildly differently to similar scenarios based on what mood he happens to be in, thats a terrible trait for a top level coach not something to be admired.
 

MC Bad Genius

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I bumped into David Warner today while he was waiting for a coffee and jokingly said as I walked past "You backing JL in?" and he was surprisingly candid (I expected him to brush me off). Said he hadn't actually spent that much time with JL as the coach and didn't know which way they'd go. He then said something else about someone in the team setup (not another player) being a f-wit that everyone hates haha.
 

010203

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I bumped into David Warner today while he was waiting for a coffee and jokingly said as I walked past "You backing JL in?" and he was surprisingly candid (I expected him to brush me off). Said he hadn't actually spent that much time with JL as the coach and didn't know which way they'd go. He then said something else about someone in the team setup (not another player) being a f-wit that everyone hates haha.
I get you probably won't name names but team manager Gavin Dovey came to mind.
 

to1994

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I bumped into David Warner today while he was waiting for a coffee and jokingly said as I walked past "You backing JL in?" and he was surprisingly candid (I expected him to brush me off). Said he hadn't actually spent that much time with JL as the coach and didn't know which way they'd go. He then said something else about someone in the team setup (not another player) being a f-wit that everyone hates haha.
Still think out of everyone involved with sandpaper that he handled himself best of all and has continued to afterwards in pretty much all areas.

People like to ignore this and just paint him with the same brush/mindset they did 5+ years ago when he did carry on a bit.
 

Belnakor

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Still think out of everyone involved with sandpaper that he handled himself best of all and has continued to afterwards in pretty much all areas.

People like to ignore this and just paint him with the same brush/mindset they did 5+ years ago when he did carry on a bit.
well tbh he was the mastermind and chief offender, so i think his reaction of just lying low, not saying too much, and then quietly coming back has worked well. he was never captaincy material anyway. His wife is hard as nails, she probably told him to harden up.
 

corbies

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well tbh he was the mastermind and chief offender, so i think his reaction of just lying low, not saying too much, and then quietly coming back has worked well. he was never captaincy material anyway. His wife is hard as nails, she probably told him to harden up.
I thought Warner led the T20 side exceptionally in the T20 tri-series before the infamous South Africa series. The only time we've ever looked a world class T20 side.
 

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