Coach Grumpy

[RohitSharma]

I don't understand all the people from Aussie OG team of the past coming at Cummins. Not sorry to say but Langer was a w***er of a coach and Cummins is the most likeable guy ever in Australian team. Dude can be a Hollywood actor and be paid more than Tom Cruise while Langer won't even get a role of a hobit in lord of the rings

 

[Gough]

You wonder how much self interest lies in a lot of the ex players criticism? Langer was their last direct link to the dressing room and they can perhaps see their influence declining.

 

[STFU Donnie]

I saw there was even an editorial in the WA daily paper about langer going, this really feeds into the WA persecution complex obviously.

Can't they just secede and f--k off already?

 

[Cleavy]

Of course, someone would need to lend him a dictionary, so he can look up "tacit"

he probably thinks it's his Friday night Tinder date

 

[JackOutback]

You wonder how much self interest lies in a lot of the ex players criticism? Langer was their last direct link to the dressing room and they can perhaps see their influence declining.

I very much doubt that; anyone in the media has influence, and what influence exactly do you think they would have had on Langer and, by extension, the team?

 

[Gough]

I very much doubt that; anyone in the media has influence, and what influence exactly do you think they would have had on Langer and, by extension, the team?

I'm more thinking about little insider exclusives for their media careers.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

You wonder how much self interest lies in a lot of the ex players criticism? Langer was their last direct link to the dressing room and they can perhaps see their influence declining.

These ex players are in the rooms all the time , most of them are commentary people and they would be popping in and out of the Aussie rooms daily. Yes they may only here JL version but they would also see what they see also. They have all gone pretty hard here which leads me to believe there is more to this than just sticking up for a mate, maybe they are seeing this childish behaviour by some players and they think they are spoilt brats?
As I have said before player power has gone to far, what happened to being privilege to play for your country and just doing your best, who the coach is or his process should not matter to much to you in Cricket.
And I find it very difficult to believe JL had lost the players, players don’t perform well when they lose faith.

 

[corbies]

Can't be many ex-team mates of Langers yet to weigh in publicly. I'm not going to be completely sold on the issue though until I hear from Brett Dorey and Scott Meuleman.

The WA mafia though... holy hell hasn't it gone into overdrive?

 

[frankrizzo]

As I have said before player power has gone to far, what happened to being privilege to play for your country and just doing your best, who the coach is or his process should not matter to much to you in Cricket.
And I find it very difficult to believe JL had lost the players, players don’t perform well when they lose faith.

Those two statements make no sense together, the players have too much power but you say langer hasn't lost the players so why would that matter anyway?

 

[Tugga27]

I wouldn't have called it a pile-on. Most people are piling onto Cricket Australia.

Maybe

But the people on here who don't like him, don't want to give him credit for anything.

He obviously hadn't done everything right, but he's done some good things.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Those two statements make no sense together, the players have too much power but you say langer hasn't lost the players so why would that matter anyway?

I am saying that CA may have listened to a couple of sooks instead of listening the head coach. Get rid of the sooks.

 

[frankrizzo]

I am saying that CA may have listened to a couple of sooks instead of listening the head coach. Get rid of the sooks.

From all reports its a large number of players who had issues with langer, whats happened in recent times is langer supporters have out of nowhere tried to frame this as purely cummins vs langer when these issues actually came to a head and were acted on when finch and paine were skippers not cummins, cummins had no idea back in august he would be an ashes winning skipper by now being asked his views on langers role.

This is not langer vs cummins with all the other payers undecided on which camp they are in and it never has been.

 

[Boston tiger]

These ex players are in the rooms all the time , most of them are commentary people and they would be popping in and out of the Aussie rooms daily. Yes they may only here JL version but they would also see what they see also. They have all gone pretty hard here which leads me to believe there is more to this than just sticking up for a mate, maybe they are seeing this childish behaviour by some players and they think they are spoilt brats?
As I have said before player power has gone to far, what happened to being privilege to play for your country and just doing your best, who the coach is or his process should not matter to much to you in Cricket.
And I find it very difficult to believe JL had lost the players, players don’t perform well when they lose faith.

They had to put things into place to mange his behaviour . They moved him away and things picked up. Why should our Test players have to do that or put up with that?
Then does every Captain have to go into bat publicly for every coach that wants another contract?

 

[greatwhiteshark]

They had to put things into place to mange his behaviour . They moved him away and things picked up. Why should our Test players have to do that or put up with that?
Then does every Captain have to go into bat publicly for every coach that wants another contract?

Put up with what? Do you think Hardwick would get sacked if he won the flag but a third of the team said he is a bit mean to us?

 

[Phone]

You wonder how much self interest lies in a lot of the ex players criticism? Langer was their last direct link to the dressing room and they can perhaps see their influence declining.

I very much doubt that; anyone in the media has influence, and what influence exactly do you think they would have had on Langer and, by extension, the team?

it was raised in Brettig's article. He may be "good" at it, but Ricky Ponting going back and forth from assistant coach to main commentator in Australia was always a bit dire imo

The doco, the manager, the legends and Langer

Senior cricket figures have acknowledged that the day after the MCG Test would have been the best time to commence critical talks with Justin Langer about his future.

www.smh.com.au

ADDED to these formative elements was the fact that as a member of Australia’s greatest ever team, Langer was extremely close to most of the group who sit in commentary judgment on the current generation through the lucrative 2018 broadcast deal with Foxtel and Seven. Ricky Ponting, Adam Gilchrist, Shane Warne, Mark Waugh, Simon Katich, Mike Hussey - not just a roll call of outstanding cricketers, but some of Langer’s closest friends and confidants.

The recent public campaign for Langer’s retention, in which all the above names plus Steve Waugh have argued loudly in their former teammate’s favour, might have swayed a lot of the public. But to many current players and staff it is simply another avenue through which a past-player group have sought to influence the path of a contemporary team that got themselves into trouble in 2018 with a wrongheaded attempt to emulate the hard-nosed “mental disintegration” of Waugh’s era.

As England’s greatest wicket-taker James Anderson reflected on the eve of the Ashes series: “We’re fortunate in England that we’ve never quite had that team to leave behind such a legacy of worldwide dominance in most forms of the game. Captains who’ve done great things must then put so much pressure on the incoming captain to live up to those standards, and the same with players. It must put pressure on guys to play that particular way, and maybe at times out of character for them.”

Over subsequent summers, the sheer volume but also proximity of these past greats has at times inhibited the team, whether through comments delivered brusquely from the commentary box or former players spending inordinate time on the field during warm-ups or in the dressing room after games.

Most frustrating of all have been instances where, after consulting the former players and commentators, Langer has ripped up pre-existing plans carefully drafted by staff and team captains and taken a fresh tack, often more than once over the course of a Test match.

These were the sorts of arguments thrashed out in August last year, leading to the fresh approach that took Australia to World Cup and Ashes triumphs. Strategy for the T20 event was driven largely by the white-ball captain Finch in concert with Andrew McDonald, mirroring their successful work with the Melbourne Renegades. Dovey, pointedly, was not on this tour.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

From all reports its a large number of players who had issues with langer, whats happened in recent times is langer supporters have out of nowhere tried to frame this as purely cummins vs langer when these issues actually came to a head and were acted on when finch and paine were skippers not cummins, cummins had no idea back in august he would be an ashes winning skipper by now being asked his views on langers role.

This is not langer vs cummins with all the other payers undecided on which camp they are in and it never has been.

I am not interested in the Langer v Cummings stuff, JL is a hard man. Clearly to hard for some of our players.

 

[JackOutback]

it was raised in Brettig's article. He may be "good" at it, but Ricky Ponting going back and forth from assistant coach to main commentator in Australia was always a bit dire imo

The doco, the manager, the legends and Langer

Senior cricket figures have acknowledged that the day after the MCG Test would have been the best time to commence critical talks with Justin Langer about his future.

www.smh.com.au

The interesting thing is the broad range of personalities on there... Adam Gilchrist is not like Shane Warne is not like Ricky Ponting is not like Mike Hussey is not like Mark Waugh etc. It might just be that Langer is not such an arseh*le (though I have heard he is intensely competitive). Gideon Haigh wrote the same thing. At some point, the number of people coming out saying he's not an asshat might suggest they are on to something.

It doesn't mean you can't move him on if there has been a complete breakdown between players, but maybe it's worth investigating if the fault doesn't also lie with the players.

 

[frankrizzo]

I am not interested in the Langer v Cummings stuff, JL is a hard man. Clearly to hard for some of our players.

yes agree he appears to just be wrong man for this group of players so we either get a brand new side or a new coach and just like with taylor and co vs bobby simpson this story only ever ends one way and its not with the coach staying and the players getting the arse.

 

[Collars]

Shane Warne has ripped into the incompetent Cricket Australia board

 

[frankrizzo]

The interesting thing is the broad range of personalities on there... Adam Gilchrist is not like Shane Warne is not like Ricky Ponting is not like Mike Hussey is not like Mark Waugh etc. It might just be that Langer is not such an arseh*le (though I have heard he is intensely competitive). Gideon Haigh wrote the same thing. At some point, the number of people coming out saying he's not an asshat might suggest they are on to something.

It doesn't mean you can't move him on if there has been a complete breakdown between players, but maybe it's worth investigating if the fault doesn't also lie with the players.

Im sure the current players who struggled to work with langer are also a diverse group of men, look all those blokes do share a few things in common they were langers teammates and his friends langer was not their boss, im sure you have had a boss you just couldn't work with but do you think his mates that he goes to the pub with or the blokes he went to uni with think the same way about him that you do?

 

[to1994]

I do think this situation can be seen in a slightly different light if you have the fairly common opinion that the entire dressing room including the Coach were in on the Sandpaper situation and it had been going on for years.

While some players like Mitchell Johnson have come across a bit disgruntled and personal, listening to Adam Gilchrist explain the situation in detail he constantly talks about how it was the players responsible for dragging Australia to it's lowest ebb in 2018 who wanted Langer out. Sure, he might be making a generalisation to make his point but he'd know more than anyone that guys like Cummins, Starc etc. pretending not to know what was going on with the ball is nonsense.

The problem for the ex players is it's a different world now. When they played, you played for Australia or you were a state cricketer and I think just about all of them would have been happy to put grudges to the side if it meant playing for Australia long term.

These days it's not the case, in some ways we are privileged that guys like Cummins, Kohli, Root etc. seemingly give it their all to play Test Cricket, put their bodies through hell in the bowlers case and make it all happen for 5 days. Any of them could pull a Quinton De Kock and continue to make a killing while spending more time with family and probably ensure a longer T20 career.

I don't think it's entitlement from the players, they simply have more bargaining power then the old school players did. I love Steve Waugh and the essence of the baggy green but I think this saga has shown that those days are long gone. We owe the players a fair bit for keeping Test Cricket alive so at the end of the day I'm on their side with this but I think Gilchrist and a select few others have opened up some good alternative perspectives unlike Johnson who probably needs to put a sock in it.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

yes agree he appears to just be wrong man for this group of players so we either get a brand new side or a new coach and just like with taylor and co vs bobby simpson this story only ever ends one way and its not with the coach staying and the players getting the arse.

You have to respect the position, you don’t have to like the coach just respect the position and do your best. Clearly CA are allowing players to decide that they know best when they don’t.

 

[Demons09]

Carey got asked about Langer said it was a shock and he didn’t have a problem with him, the media will more than likely sound out all the player’s wont be hard to work out who had it in for him, the old no comment will out them.

 

[Del28562]

These ex players are in the rooms all the time , most of them are commentary people and they would be popping in and out of the Aussie rooms daily. Yes they may only here JL version but they would also see what they see also. They have all gone pretty hard here which leads me to believe there is more to this than just sticking up for a mate, maybe they are seeing this childish behaviour by some players and they think they are spoilt brats?
As I have said before player power has gone to far, what happened to being privilege to play for your country and just doing your best, who the coach is or his process should not matter to much to you in Cricket.
And I find it very difficult to believe JL had lost the players, players don’t perform well when they lose faith.

You do realise that a coach is relatively modern in cricket? It's always the captain's team, it hasnt the last 4 years, as Paine had no tactical nous.

Did we pump up John Buchanan on his results? No it was the players that won all those games, yet now it's the coach who's the saviour.

Who dropped Shane Warne, it wasn't the coach, it was the captain Steve Waugh, Langer wanted to change the model to be AFL like, where the coach is boss, hence the breakdown with players

 

[frankrizzo]

The problem for the ex players is it's a different world now. When they played, you played for Australia or you were a state cricketer and I think just about all of them would have been happy to put grudges to the side if it meant playing for Australia long term.

thats not the case though, langers era of players were the one that pushed hard for the players to be give a huge amount of power and they even did exactly this and ousted a coach they felt was too overbearing, taylor in particular helped solidify further the belief that a test side is defined by the skippers vision for the side and the coaches job is simply to support and facilitate that not create his own vision for the side.