Coach Grumpy

[Jamurp]

Who would want to coach the Australian cricket team given recent history? I know the pay is great, but the amount of time spent away from home, the amount of scrutiny, and it seems to rarely end smoothly. It's no wonder guys like Ponting would rather do some IPL coaching amongst other commitments.

 

[Collars]

I think its called integrity something that this senior playing group lacks atm

True

 

[SSwans2011]

I think its called integrity something that this senior playing group lacks atm

True

Let me know if you guys ever complain about your bosses so I can tell you to harden up and show some integrity.

 

[Blue1980]

I also think many from all generations of aussie cricket were worried about the way the border has basically given up control of the side to simpson and were happy taylor wanted a return to it being the skippers team.

i just find it so strange taylors era of players now seem to have wanted langer to be a long term coach who sets the direction for the side and not the skipper when they hated that idea when it was them running things, so many here also keep comparing it to a sport like AFL where you have these hard bastard coaches running the show for 20 years while multiple generations come and go but i mean who cares what the afl does? thats a vastly different game not test cricket its never been the way tests are run in tests you back your skipper and everybody else is meant to facilitate his running of the side.

p.s. the elephant in the room with all this is surely cummins already discussed all this with CA back before he accepted the captaincy or before they offered it? He would have said i won't be looking at continuing the paine/langer style of running the side i want to take full control of the side again and i need a support staff to facilitate this, ca must have known a new skipper would mean a new approach if they didnt like what cummins had laid out they wouldn't have backed him in.

It’s all very weird and past players can’t look past the emotional side of it being a mate of theirs not being kept on.

Micky Arthur was forced out largely due to player sentiment as well, no outcry then of players running the show.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Exactly.

It's absurd. The whole "players are sooks and can't handle a bit of tough love" line that is being trotted out is completely nonsensical. Let's just keep a coach in because he's a hardarse hey? Never mind that the entire playing group hates him and the bloke loses his temper unnecessarily at the drop of a hat. He resurrected the culture post sandpaper gate, everyone appreciates that, but it's time to move on.

We won the Ashes because we actually have a decent team assembled right now and England are woeful and couldn't handle the hub. Not because of anything Langer did - he had even taken a back seat by that stage by all reports.

If Langer continued, the building discontent among the playing group would've inevitably led to a shambolic series (most likely overseas) and Langer would've been gone then anyway. Sensible for the players to make their concerns known now before that has a chance to happen.

It is true though. it is just the way the modern world is. And because the world is like this that means that hard nose people cannot associate or be used as leaders with this generation of people.
JL has been removed for this reason, the players like everything warm and cuddly and JL is not that man, Andrew Mcdonald or someone else will be for them.
The two different types don't fit anymore in the era of player empowerment.

 

[The Passenger]

It was so much tougher back in my day.... Said every single one of the last 293 generations.

 

[Blue1980]

Simpson got moved on for Marsh because that team didn't need a dominant figurehead as coach.

In the 80's Border had a very young team and needed another dominant figure alongside him - although it was always AB's team, never Simmo's.

By the time Mark Taylor came in as captain the team was the best in the world and Taylor had Warne, McGrath, Healy and Waugh x 2 as very experienced members of the set up. The more convivial Marsh was much better suited.

Basically though, the players from the late 90s to 07 or so wouldn’t of tolerated a langer style coach.

I’m not even sure after Arthur they would of either.

 

[Some Idiot]

It was so much tougher back in my day.... Said every single one of the last 293 generations.

Was thinking the same, must've been some seriously tough buggers in those days since we've apparently been getting more sensitive every generation for centuries.

 

[Blue1980]

MJ is one of the more level headed of the previous generations of cricketers. He also put up with a hell of a sh*t during his career that would have seen many others snap and he mostly just kept his head down and worked away.

His comments on Cummins were way off base but his public comments in retirement are generally pretty on point. I think it was mostly him just blowing off some steam.

He definitely seems like the sorta guy I'd enjoy a beer with.

I got the vibe of MJ being in WA now playing to the galley a bit too.

 

[Blue1980]

Langer has been professional throughout himself so I don't expect him to do so.

No one knows much about the situation other than the players and staff involved. Apart from a few tidbits of information, there is only speculation.

I don't think there's much to see here at all, the players didn't want to be stuck with Langer long term due to a couple of issues and Langer didn't want to accept anything less than a 4 year extension.

Got a feeling langer would have as much to lose if dirty laundry came out, maybe even more so.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

It was so much tougher back in my day.... Said every single one of the last 293 generations.

I don't think it was any tougher, we just looked at it differently.
We were just happy to be selected and just did what we were told to do. It wasn't complicated. We didn't care who was the coach.
Not about being tougher at all.

 

[BStaff17]

Well even if you do not agree with Johnson comments at least he has the courage to say what he thinks.....not like the Senior members of the team who have been leaking stories to the media for past 12 months most notably to Conn who has had a personal vendatta against langer for years

Every generation of players has leaked to the media in there playing there days. Its how they get relationships between both parties.

Go listen to the Shane Watson podcasts and he asks every cricketer he gets on about 50 odd he has interviewed the question about dealing with the media in there playing and hear there repsonses.

Its also not much difference to all the former cricketers who release an autobiography and air all the dirty laundry about teammates and coaches from the change rooms so they can sell a few extra books and generate noise.

 

[FreoRicci]

I don't think it was any tougher, we just looked at it differently.
We were just happy to be selected and just did what we were told to do. It wasn't complicated. We didn't care who was the coach.
Not about being tougher at all.

How it it tough?
Australia haven’t been particularly strong of late, and with the sandpapergate the players should’ve expected a significant culture change. International Cricket is brutal. Not sure what the players were expecting.
To be honest, think the fact Warner and Smith came back probably pushed Langer to be tough. Increased standards and values. Unfortunately the players took it the wrong way, and the message is clear.
Why at international level does players warrant a line coach; a manager? You’d think by being selected for Australia there’s expectation to have high standards and professional training? Eh.
The Paine fiasco was swept under the carpet thanks to Ashes 4-0.
Langer got the worst of both worlds. Came in at a time of turmoil, and will leave at a time of uncertainty.
Next we ll have multiple players not travelling to Pakistan..

 

[Del28562]

I think its called integrity something that this senior playing group lacks atm

Doesn't he just get his old team mates to talk, fair dinkum anyone would think Langer is the Messiah the way people are carrying on, he did an honorable job, but he's time was up, 4 years is enough for a coach, if cricket Australia knew this was going to happen they would have sacked him 12 months ago, instead of letting him see out his contract.

 

[Lia]

If everyone's going to throw emotional claptrap about lack of leadership, ball tampering etc* in addition to the above we've also got this doozy.



It's interesting that roughly a decade later the Australian cricketing public went absolutely ape sh*t at Broad for not walking.

* which are fair issues to discuss, it's just some of the posting would embarrass a hormone charged teenager.

Well that ball bounced in front of Mahela so I'm not sure why you would compare it to Stuart Broad in 2013.

 

[Retzlaff]

Looking forward to hearing the thoughts of other WA favourite sons Fat Cat and Rolf Harris

 

[getthefooty]

It is true though. it is just the way the modern world is. And because the world is like this that means that hard nose people cannot associate or be used as leaders with this generation of people.
JL has been removed for this reason, the players like everything warm and cuddly and JL is not that man, Andrew Mcdonald or someone else will be for them.
The two different types don't fit anymore in the era of player empowerment.

Na it's complete rubbish.

You speak like there's a complete dichotomy between "tough love" and "warm and cuddly" - and there's no room for anything in between.

Do I think we need a coach that only praises players all the time - absolutely not. There is a way of giving honest feedback that isn't just a spray or a one way conversation. If Andrew McDonald wasn't prepared to have hard chats with players then he's not the man.

But JL's approach clearly went further than that - i.e. big sprays for the most minor of incidents, not properly engaging with or having two way chats with players, etc. That is the problem, not the fact he's "hard nosed". Do we really want someone who isn't cool in a crisis but instead loses his temper at the drop of a hat? Doesn't sound like leadership to me.

People respond differently depending on what time of person they are. That's just a fact of life. If you've got 20-30 different players in and around a squad, not all are going to respond well to a spray. Some will. The best coaches don't just adopt a "one size fits all" approach and know how to get the best out of each player.

There's a reason that coaches that just go round shooting their mouth off don't get employed any more - it's because the method has been tried and found wanting.

 

[corbies]

I don't think it was any tougher, we just looked at it differently.
We were just happy to be selected and just did what we were told to do. It wasn't complicated. We didn't care who was the coach.
Not about being tougher at all.

Who is the we in this? What period are we talking?

 

[Blue Arrow]

There's going to be some serious cognitive dissonance going on when the same people are getting a little hard on when Cummins runs through another batting line-up.

How many chubbies will the ‘Pat is a great captain’ crowd have after the team wins stuff all on the upcoming tours?

 

[Del28562]

How many chubbies will the ‘Pat is a great captain’ crowd have after the team wins stuff all on the upcoming tours?

If you think Langer is the difference to us winning or losing you have rocks in your head, when has Langer won a series away from home?

 

[deanc]

I wonder why it didn't get stage managed to the point that Langer announces that he has decided not to seek reappointment, too much time away from my family etc and will finish up after the Ashes.

Surely things didn't get decided in the last couple of weeks.

The revolving door of CA powerbrokers, Paine's unplanned departure and JL's stubbornness I suspect were all factors negating anything that could of been 'stage managed'...

About a year ago when the tour to SA was canned, Paine publicly stated his journey was coming to an end and the next Ashes campaign would be his last! There was also a related rumour at the time that he'd asked JL to walk off into the sunset with him, ala both retire post Ashes?

Related, it's well known Paine was highly respected and thought of by the players and equally the coach, often being the arbitrator for players concerns, so it's also conceivable he presented this 'end date' concept to the players to maintain harmony in the dressing room and possibly hinted the same with CA for similar reasons - but JL being JL, at the first opportunity probably just laughed off any such suggestions...

Whilst the writing was on the wall, I also suggest Paine's sudden departure was the nail in the coffin for JL - as suddenly he lost his liaison/filter with the players and confidant and supporter with CA...

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Who is the we in this? What period are we talking?

80’s -90’s

 

[melanChronic]

I don't think it was any tougher, we just looked at it differently.
We were just happy to be selected and just did what we were told to do. It wasn't complicated. We didn't care who was the coach.
Not about being tougher at all.

Depends on who you mean by "we".

If you mean "we" as the players in a cricket team, well ever since there has been an Australian cricket coach the players have cared about who the Australian cricket coach was. The first ever Australian cricket coach, Bob Simpson, was moved on by the players, who pushed for Marsh. Ponting and Gilchrist campaigned hard to keep Buchanan after 2005. Nielsen was sacked in 2011 after the Argus review based on player feedback. Arthur was sacked based on player blowback in 2013.

If you mean "we" as in the public, well then yes I agree that the public have largely not given two hoots about who the coach was until recently, when the role has become a more high profile one taken up by recent ex-players with mates in the media. Now some voices in the public seem to care very much that their man didn't get the extension they thought he was entitled to.

 

[JackFlash]

Captain Pat Cummins has made his statement, he respects Langer, says he was great, did all the right things, yet the bloke gas been given the boot? Australia is very lucky to be playing international cricket at all at the moment. Players were suspeneded, a Captain stood down and at least one career was ruined. Langer comes along to get that team back on track after the worst year in Australian sport and now gets the chop, but the Captain is fully supportive of him? Transitions and looking forward is a load of bollocks IMO, Langer was already there to look forward for at least the next 3 years, but he's rocked the boat and bent a few egos out of shape. Players made him walk the plank.

 

[BStaff17]

How many chubbies will the ‘Pat is a great captain’ crowd have after the team wins stuff all on the upcoming tours?

The only way is up they haven't won a test series abroad since february 2016 in New Zealand. So its not like we were great overseas previously.

Pakistan will a 50/50 bet. The players are entering the unknown no one has played there before and pakistan are a lottery to predict they can play awesome and implode in the space of a match let alone a series.

Wouldn't surprise me if its a 1-all draw tbh.

Sri Lanka was a disaster last time we toured in 2016 got done 3-0 very convincingly. Should improve on what we dished up and win the series.

And we have only won a series in india once in the past 50 years. Hopefully we perform like we did in 2017 and are competitive. If the tour falls apart like 2013 then questions rightly should be asked