Coach Grumpy

[BStaff17]

Ideally i reckon Langer should finish up after the T20WC in Australia in November.

That leaves the new coach a softish start at home with tests against the Windies and South Africa post the WC. And 8 months to get relationships and that right for the away ashes in 23.

But unfortunately his contract finishes in June so a 5 month extension doesn't really work.

Sacking him now puts more pressure on the new coach with 3 tough tours in Asia with a barrage of ex legends fuming. Which could be a disaster

So i dont know probably 18 more months and finish up at the Ashes 2023. But will Langer's pride and ego accept just a 18 month extension.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Why be so negative,personally like most posters I tire of your constant attack on Harris.Most of the tests he got a start but still think we should stick with him in the squad at least.Hunt /Street lets see how they go in the remaining shield games.Now is not the time to experiment on these upcoming overseas trips.

I’d rather punt on Street or Hunt anyway. I’m so over picking an opener we know isn’t good enough however it’s a gamble and one we shouldn’t have to be taking if at the start of the summer we picked one of the new young openers. That’s on Langer and the other two selectors but unfortunately the buck stops with the coach

 

[frankrizzo]

A short term deal is an awful idea, if langer wants a long term deal as we keep hearing we either go with his vision for the side or we don't, he appears to want the bobby simpson role where its simpsons vision and simpsons team and the skipper is his wing man not the main man so why give langer a short term deal here if he is disgruntled and doesnt have that sort of power he seeks?

 

[big_e]

I don't think Langer and Cummins are on the same page and I suspect CA will back the young captain over the aging coach.

And yet the favourite is Trevor Bayliss, who is eight years older.

 

[Phone]

Things do seem to be building towards a nice, spectacular implosion once we start losing series in the subcontinent. Especially with all the players and staff locked up together in bio bubbles with no chance to let any steam off.

This already happened, in 2021-22. It led to Langer clearly being stripped of responsibility and this current piece of drama

I disagree in this instance.

Langer clearly achieves results, is it worth giving that up because a few players don't like being held accountable or being told what to do? I don't think so.

How is it clear? 2-2 in the 2019 Ashes thanks to an once in a lifetime performance from Smith and thrashed in the 2019 ODI WC semi final. Lost two home series to India. CA then implemented large changes to the coaching set-up in the 2021 off-season which then led to a T20 WC victory and Ashes victory. We have as much evidence, if not more, to say that the team performs better with Langer having a largely reduced role (which then brings into the question the feasibility of handing him a contract to be a coach in name but in practice...)

Like, "the results speak for themselves" line doesn't make any sense when considering that the best results happened directly after Langer got pushed aside and two new assistant coaches were hired. Now on that I will say the only person who should get credit for the T20 WC is Aaron Finch for winning every coin toss in an elimination game and the Ashes were against a pitiful opponent, so I'm not sure the changes to the coaching set-up had that much to do with the success either. But if anyone is gonna say "the results speak for themselves" then they oughta acknowledge that the process prior to the results being achieved was Langer clearly being shoved aside and told to do a lot less, and that 3 assistant coaches and Langer as a coach in title only is not a sustainable long term option for anyone

 

[Cleavy]

I'd like to see if we make any improvement away from home, especially in the subcontinent. that might make a fairer assessment of his coaching ability.

 

[Freo Big Fella]

It's going to be seriously amusing to see the whining on here when Bayliss does the same thing to our red ball set up he's just spent the last decade doing to England's.

 

[BStaff17]

It's going to be seriously amusing to see the whining on here when Bayliss does the same thing to our red ball set up he's just spent the last decade doing to England's.

Outside of 2-3 years under strauss and Flower every other regime England have had for 30 years has been shit in tests not just Bayliss.

Bayliss main task from the ECB was turning 40 years of white ball failure after there disgraceful 2015 WC campaign was finally the straw that broke the camels back.

England were hosting the 2019 WC and the ECB could ill afford England floundering again in a WC they were hosting.

 

[Phone]

if they do move on from Langer, it's obviously the perfect time to split the coaching roles. CA's been reluctant to even have different captains and keepers in white ball cricket, bar some clear cases of people being near retirement and so having the next person get some reps in OD cricket. But they've had that for a few years now with Finch/Carey vs Paine, and the world hasn't ended. A McDonald/Bayliss duo, for example, just picking the two most obvious names, seems perfectly fine

 

[heypenny]

This already happened, in 2021-22. It led to Langer clearly being stripped of responsibility and this current piece of drama



How is it clear? 2-2 in the 2019 Ashes thanks to an once in a lifetime performance from Smith and thrashed in the 2019 ODI WC semi final. Lost two home series to India. CA then implemented large changes to the coaching set-up in the 2021 off-season which then led to a T20 WC victory and Ashes victory. We have as much evidence, if not more, to say that the team performs better with Langer having a largely reduced role (which then brings into the question the feasibility of handing him a contract to be a coach in name but in practice...)

Like, "the results speak for themselves" line doesn't make any sense when considering that the best results happened directly after Langer got pushed aside and two new assistant coaches were hired. Now on that I will say the only person who should get credit for the T20 WC is Aaron Finch for winning every coin toss in an elimination game and the Ashes were against a pitiful opponent, so I'm not sure the changes to the coaching set-up had that much to do with the success either. But if anyone is gonna say "the results speak for themselves" then they oughta acknowledge that the process prior to the results being achieved was Langer clearly being shoved aside and told to do a lot less, and that 3 assistant coaches and Langer as a coach in title only is not a sustainable long term option for anyone

I'm no Langer fanboi but it's a bit irrational to lay responsibility on Langer for the loses in the ODI World Cup and India series; and then in the same breath give the credit to our T20 World Cup and Ashes' series to a coin toss and inept opposition.

I don't know all the ins and outs; but as a supporter, I feel a lot more confident and optimistic of our future than I did in 2018. One thing Langer was good at in charge of WA and the same in Australia, is that he backs and believes in his players. He was good at blooding young players and also backing in players that are out of form. Think Travis Head, Warner, Starc over the last 12 months. If was up to the big footy nuffies, these players wouldn't have lined up in the T20 world cup or Ashes.

But I also understand Cricket Australia need to listen to the players (to an extent). Langer does take things too seriously and he comes across a bit David Brentesque at times. IMO I think it would be bizarre to get rid of Langer considering the recent results. Possibly a short extension of 2 years with a review point in 12 months time.

 

[t_94]

Imagine being such a knob that your position is in question 3 months after delivering a World Cup!

 

[Phone]

I'm no Langer fanboi but it's a bit irrational to lay responsibility on Langer for the loses in the ODI World Cup and India series; and then in the same breath give the credit to our T20 World Cup and Ashes' series to a coin toss and inept opposition.

I've clearly written "so I'm not sure the changes to the coaching set-up had that much to do with the success either." I don't think the results change that much whether Langer is the same as before 2021 or this new coaching set-up. But for people saying let the results speak for themselves regarding the WC and Ashes, then it seems to me that the process prior to the results also speaks for itself.

 

[The Falcon Strike]

Thank god AB was never coach - the poor darlings would never have been able to play

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

I don't often agree with Warnie, but he is absolutely right (as well as Chappelli) when he says that the influence of a 'head coach' of an elite cricket team is really really overstated. He's clearly hated so just move him on.

 

[to1994]

Langer's results speak for themselves - on paper he deserves an extension. He didn't just bash up a weak English team in Australia, he also won it in England. Don't underestimate that.

Giving players the ability to have this much of a say in the coach rings alarm bells. This isn't an IT Company, it is elite sporting. Players not liking to being held to elite standards is never a good thing. Langer would be appear to be doing that though it would seem rubbing a few players up.

Whatever will be will be, but the players pushing Langer out want to make damn sure they don't lose badly under a new coach. Or serious questions would be asked.

If the results speak for themselves how are you defending two series losses to India at home?

If he had a flawless record then fair enough, but it's hardly that, the T20 World Cup was a big one, but Australia barely play IT20 Cricket so how much credit goes to the Australian Coach versus the IPL and various other coaches who do most of the T20 work with these players?

The England series was also a draw, we blew 2 tests over there. I'm not trying to have a crack at him, I just think pretending his incredible results should see him through is short sighted.

 

[heypenny]

If the results speak for themselves how are you defending two series losses to India at home?

If he had a flawless record then fair enough, but it's hardly that, the T20 World Cup was a big one, but Australia barely play IT20 Cricket so how much credit goes to the Australian Coach versus the IPL and various other coaches who do most of the T20 work with these players?

The England series was also a draw, we blew 2 tests over there. I'm not trying to have a crack at him, I just think pretending his incredible results should see him through is short sighted.

Re the recent Ashes in England. I'm not sure if you can blame Langer for the loss at Headingly. You have to put that on Paine and the rest of the team. Stokes pretty much accumulated the last 150 runs within one session. To be fair to Langer, he picked up the pieces. He brought them together and they addressed what went wrong.

It's crazy to keep saying he's responsible for the losses, but then it's other factors (IPL coaches, toss of a coin, opposition etc) responsible for the wins.

Lehmann didn't get much success but everyone loved him because he was one of the boys. Look how that turned out. You need strong leadership and governance at the top. It's professional sport. And I'm not advocating for a long extension for Langer, but think it would be bizarre to move him on considering how he's turned around the team from probably it's lowest point.

 

[The Passenger]

I don't often agree with Warnie, but he is absolutely right (as well as Chappelli) when he says that the influence of a 'head coach' of an elite cricket team is really really overstated. He's clearly hated so just move him on.

I imagine at the elite level there's a lot of "internal coaching" going on. The nature of a match and training does lend itself to that. For instance, a bowler is fairly likely to notice one of his teammates is stepping further across his stumps than previously and getting his head out of line with the delivery. Every bit of a focus is on the contest between bowler and batter and any subsequent fielding that occurs.

Something equivalent in football, say a leading forward is dropping marks because he is not watching the ball right into his hands. A team mate may notice that for sure. But most of his teammates are dealing with a direct opponent, are often in heavy traffic so their attention is not always 100% on what is happening on the ball and they are usually heavily fatigued so taking mental notes about a teammate is not at the forefront of their thinking. Technical issues like this are most likely going to picked up by people on the sidelines rather than in the thick of the action.

Not that internal coaching can't happen in football. Or that having another set of eyes doesn't help in cricket. There are plenty of technical coaches in cricket, with the most feted being spin bowling coaches.

I think a lot of coaching at the elite level is dealing with the mental side of the games and ensuring your chargers are prepared for the game. This probably even applies for technical coaches.

 

[Voice of the G]

We could end the week with both coaches from the recently completed Ashes series sacked.

If we are looking for a new coach why not Chris Rogers.

 

[big_e]

If the results speak for themselves how are you defending two series losses to India at home?

If he had a flawless record then fair enough, but it's hardly that, the T20 World Cup was a big one, but Australia barely play IT20 Cricket so how much credit goes to the Australian Coach versus the IPL and various other coaches who do most of the T20 work with these players?

The England series was also a draw, we blew 2 tests over there. I'm not trying to have a crack at him, I just think pretending his incredible results should see him through is short sighted.

Reference to series that are basically ancient history is pointless, imo.

For a start, as a result of those results, he changed how he worked, and those changes led to a very successful period.

To now say "well, we lost to India four years ago" would be like sacking Simon Goodwin today because Melbourne didn't make the finals in 2020.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Reference to series that are basically ancient history is pointless, imo.

For a start, as a result of those results, he changed how he worked, and those changes led to a very successful period.

To now say "well, we lost to India four years ago" would be like sacking Simon Goodwin today because Melbourne didn't make the finals in 2020.

How can you tell they worked though? The only team we've beaten is England who are woeful. I'd rather be waiting until after the sub continent tours, the proof will be in the pudding so to speak after that period.

for the record I'm not saying sack him, I'm for a short term extension but there has to be a line, he hasn't really done much yet as coach, he's no Buchannon yet!

 

[Sammo360]

I'd like to see if we make any improvement away from home, especially in the subcontinent. that might make a fairer assessment of his coaching ability.

Performances in Bangladesh and West Indies would suggest not much will improve. Clearly there's no real plan to combat spin.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Performances in Bangladesh and West Indies would suggest not much will improve. Clearly there's no real plan to combat spin.

That is why I've very hesitant to lock in long term deals to a coach that hasn't shown anything overseas, beating a hapless English side doesn't count and they drew the series not won it!

 

[Some Idiot]

John Buchanan wasn't endorsed by his players (Shane Warne said he did nothing and his role was irrelevant) but he stayed on while the results were good. The pressure will come back on Langer quickly if we lose another test series like the India one, but while we're winning he'll be fine.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

John Buchanan wasn't endorsed by his players (Shane Warne said he did nothing and his role was irrelevant) but he stayed on while the results were good. The pressure will come back on Langer quickly if we lose another test series like the India one, but while we're winning he'll be fine.

This is probably why he wants us to sort it out before we leave because if we win more than 1-2 tests in the sub continent we've done well.

 

[Westend]

How can you tell they worked though? The only team we've beaten is England who are woeful. I'd rather be waiting until after the sub continent tours, the proof will be in the pudding so to speak after that period.

for the record I'm not saying sack him, I'm for a short term extension but there has to be a line, he hasn't really done much yet as coach, he's no Buchannon yet!

We did lose our captain before the test started and we inserted a captain who was a bowler which we have never done for about 40 years......so it all could of gone to poo. Plus we did have the poms crapping on about how we where ripe for the picking before the series started

Yes england are poor but you can only play who you have in front of you so Langer does deserve the credit along with the other selectors for there selections and for winning 4 nil

Also the t20 which we have never won in our history is a huge effort.....we went for a pace attack when everyone said you needed more spin.....that was Langer and selectors backing in the players....but according to some of the posts on here we only won because we won the coin toss .....lol turn it up

Atm cricket Australia are treating langer like a piece of sh**t . All of this leaks coming from the senior players who by the way where very instrumental in sandpapergate having a whinge because Langer gives them a rocket for playing crap ....please do you believe that the new coach is going to get on with all the players....I guarantee he will not

As I said before its Langers role to get the best out of the players and to wins games not to be there f**ken friend.....look at Buchanned....Warney whinged about him for years.....didn't effect the result though...australia won games

Bloody boys club !!!