Coach Grumpy

[greatwhiteshark]

The opening post in this thread is a piece by Malcolm Conn about his time as CA's media manager and his professional interactions with Langer. It's pretty straightforward: Langer was unpleasant to work with because he couldn't control his emotions and took it out on people around him. It's also not leaking, it's Conn going on the record about his experiences. Usman Khawaja didn't leak anything when he straight out said that Langer needed to control his emotions better to Langer's face on camera during the Ashes. How about his meltdown at David Boon? How about he and Dovey bailing up a staffer over the Bangladesh video?

I'm sure he's a nice guy in person. But the Haigh article was so revealing in that respect - the anecdote he deploys to demonstrate that Justin Langer is a Good Bloke is that he paid for someone's dinner. Very generous! Does absolutely nothing to dispel the pretty specific and well supported description of his professional behaviour, though.

JL is a ripping bloke but he is hard as nails. His professional behaviour is not really wrong it just doesn’t match the era he is coaching in clearly.

 

[damochandler]

We aren’t playing at home anytime soon and nothing in WA where it might be an issue. It will settle down after we win some tests overseas.

Hope Bayliss is announced soon so everyone can get on with it including Langer’s ex players. Cricket is all about winning in the end. The only issue was when it happened not if it occurred.

You harped on about the loss they had at home 3 years ago. In that time. They have won tests away from home.

 

[damochandler]

If they didn’t want him as the coach, don’t offer him an extension. That’s where it’s been a shut show and shows how bad cricket Australia are going

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You harped on about the loss they had at home 3 years ago. In that time. They have won tests away from home.

Against England…it isn’t hard to beat them they are hopeless

 

[LukeParkerno1]

You have a real deep hatred for JL, did something happen in the past personally with him? I get having an opinion that you would prefer another coach as that is normal but you have come across here with deep hatred. Not sure why?

Have utterly hated some of his selections and frankly I won’t miss that one single bit. Seemed way too much picking on whether he liked the bloke.

 

[damochandler]

Against England…it isn’t hard to beat them they are hopeless

In England and that team wasn’t hopeless

 

[thejester]

JL is a ripping bloke but he is hard as nails. His professional behaviour is not really wrong it just doesn’t match the era he is coaching in clearly.

Cmon man, yelling at a CA staffer because the website has a video of Bangladesh celebrating isn’t about being as hard as nails.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

In England and that team wasn’t hopeless

Wasn’t hopeless? Come off it they weren’t that good and it took Smith in Bradman mode to even draw the series

 

[madmug]

Looking more and more like a NSW mafia inspired and driven coup. After all, almost all the long term senior players come from there. Smith, Warner, Lyon, Hazlewood, Starc and Cummins.

A few personalities amongst that lot who wouldn’t take kindly to being told what to do. Hence the white anting.

Yes the guys brought in to fix the culture are knifed. The guys who fkt the culture get rewarded.

 

[Phone]

BNG made his own bed

The way the game is played is that the coach sees the writing on the wall and announces that they’re walking away at the end of their contract. This lets them save face and gives the governing body time and clean air to find the replacement.

If he doesn’t the governing body either has to sack him (worst case scenario) or announce that he’s not getting a renewal (which undermines his authority for the remainder of his tenure). Neither is good for the coach, the team, or the governing body.

The six month offer was a way to nudge BNG into doing the right thing and quit on something like his own terms. The only reason it’s not worked out that way is because he has chosen to throw the toys out of the pram in a massive way, getting his mates to stir up the hoi polloi.

This is essentially it and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. there's no logical contract extension that Langer and CA could come to and anyone with even half a brain knows it. Langer would want a long term deal. CA would rightly be hesitant to give another long term to Langer after having to call in the CEO and Chairman and unexpectedly hire two assistant players not 6 months prior. Langer pushes for a deal anyway. CA stays firm.

 

[deanc]

Have utterly hated some of his selections and frankly I won’t miss that one single bit. Seemed way too much picking on whether he liked the bloke.

The problem with some of your recommendations LP, summarizing your usual posts during recent Test/ODI/T20 campaigns, is apparently Australia should only have three or four players on permanent duties/contract with 20 others on standby, every match..!

 

[big_e]

This is essentially it and anyone who thinks otherwise is dreaming. there's no logical contract extension that Langer and CA could come to and anyone with even half a brain knows it. Langer would want a long term deal. CA would rightly be hesitant to give another long term to Langer after having to call in the CEO and Chairman and unexpectedly hire two assistant players not 6 months prior. Langer pushes for a deal anyway. CA stays firm.

There was nothing unexpected about the hiring of assistant coaches. In fact, we've had assistant coaches for some time. McDonald replaced David Saker.

 

[damochandler]

Wasn’t hopeless? Come off it they weren’t that good and it took Smith in Bradman mode to even draw the series

I didn’t say they were good. I said they weren’t hopeless, which they weren’t.

 

[Phone]

There was nothing unexpected about the hiring of assistant coaches. In fact, we've had assistant coaches for some time. McDonald replaced David Saker.

Yes, and they ran with Langer/McDonald with special guest coaches (Ponting, Waugh) and Graeme Hick as a batting coach. Then covid happened and CA disgracefully sacked a whole heap of people across the sport (including Hick) in June 2020. Then in July 2021 they hired two very well credited assistant coaches in Jeff Vaughan and Michael Di Venuto who would not have been hired for a song. The reports of strong feedback came in May 2021. I very much doubt CA wanted to hire more assistants when the covid cloud over the game was still ongoing, but they did it.

 

[Tugga27]

The opening post in this thread is a piece by Malcolm Conn about his time as CA's media manager and his professional interactions with Langer. It's pretty straightforward: Langer was unpleasant to work with because he couldn't control his emotions and took it out on people around him. It's also not leaking, it's Conn going on the record about his experiences. Usman Khawaja didn't leak anything when he straight out said that Langer needed to control his emotions better to Langer's face on camera during the Ashes. How about his meltdown at David Boon? How about he and Dovey bailing up a staffer over the Bangladesh video?

I'm sure he's a nice guy in person. But the Haigh article was so revealing in that respect - the anecdote he deploys to demonstrate that Justin Langer is a Good Bloke is that he paid for someone's dinner. Very generous! Does absolutely nothing to dispel the pretty specific and well supported description of his professional behaviour, though.

I think you're cherry picking to suit your argument TBF.
It's common knowledge that Conn hates Langer and was out to get him after they had some blow ups.

Haigh not only mentioned dinner, he said he has heard from multiple sources what a kind and caring guy he is.

Unlike Conn, Haigh has no dog in this fight is more respected as a journo than Conn will ever be IMO.

Yep, Langer might've gone too far on occasions and was told to reign it in which he reportedly did.

That in some corners he's painted out to be some some physotic meglomamiac is laughable.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Have utterly hated some of his selections and frankly I won’t miss that one single bit. Seemed way too much picking on whether he liked the bloke.

Only two selections I have had an issue with. Harris as opener but there were few other options. And Carey as keeper, I would of gone Inglis as he would be there for 10 years plus probably. Carey has been ok though.
White Ball cricket selection I don’t really care as it’s just hit and giggle cricket.

 

[greatwhiteshark]

Cmon man, yelling at a CA staffer because the website has a video of Bangladesh celebrating isn’t about being as hard as nails.

And making the odd mistake doesn’t make you a bad person or leader. This is the problem these days, we magnify everything and make massive issues out of simply a heat of the moment slip of the tongue or stare down. We need to be better and overlook these things sometimes. I have no idea why we as a society like to cut people down who make a few little errors.

 

[Phone]

I think you're cherry picking to suit your argument TBF.
It's common knowledge that Conn hates Langer and was out to get him after they had some blow ups.

Haigh not only mentioned dinner, he said he has heard from multiple sources what a kind and caring guy he is.

Unlike Conn, Haigh has no dog in this fight is more respected as a journo than Conn will ever be IMO.

Yep, Langer might've gone too far on occasions and was told to reign it in which he reportedly did.

That in some corners he's painted out to be some some physotic meglomamiac is laughable.

The poster was replying to a post that started with "What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours?". The poster provided examples that have made it into the public. If those examples can't be accepted, surely the original post - What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours? - can't be accepted either

 

[Tugga27]

The poster was replying to a post that started with "What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours?". The poster provided examples that have made it into the public. If those examples can't be accepted, surely the original post - What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours? - can't be accepted either

I was mainly talking about the Haigh article where he mentioned the dinner payment.

Having said that, I don't think the argument with Boon would be considered wild behaviour.

The core group of players that were responsible for sandpapergate are in charge again.

 

[JackOutback]

The poster was replying to a post that started with "What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours?". The poster provided examples that have made it into the public. If those examples can't be accepted, surely the original post - What exactly were these wild mood swings and behaviours? - can't be accepted either

I asked the question and I don't think the answers in that article really count as 'wild mood swings'. The writer is at pains to keep reiterating that none of the examples on their own tell the story and you have to add them up, likely because none of the stories seem particularly wild. Not saying there's no truth to the rumours, but just as equally, could be two people that don't get along because of different levels of intensity, and let's be honest, Australian cricket coach is a more intense job than media manager.

 

[Del28562]

Under the carpet? They made quite a bit about having addressed the issue & were very pissed off with the mess CA made of the situation.

Their investigation didn't even bother to look at the text message exchange, they just interviewed Tim and took his word, then went to the cops, because she didn't pay for a kids membership and full membership and got her charged, great work by cricket Tasmania

 

[Borisdog]

Yes the guys brought in to fix the culture are knifed. The guys who fkt the culture get rewarded.

The bowling group who knew nothing about the ball tampering you mean?

Who all had the pill in their hand for about 95% of the overs bowled at Cape Town in that innings you mean?

Who noticed nothing about the ball being dodgy?

Those guys you mean?

Bancroft was dead set dumb as dog shit to fall for that, but he sure didn't load that gun. And if anyone reckons the bowling unit knew nothing then give me a ring, I've got a nice bridge for sale in Sydney

 

[deanc]

And making the odd mistake doesn’t make you a bad person or leader. This is the problem these days, we magnify everything and make massive issues out of simply a heat of the moment slip of the tongue or stare down. We need to be better and overlook these things sometimes. I have no idea why we as a society like to cut people down who make a few little errors.

Concur - problem is GWS, these attitudes are championed/promoted by the media almost on a daily basis..! They magnify it (rarely overlook), then most people who are too busy or lazy or it feeds their outrage for the day often just subscribe to it...

 

[madmug]

Their investigation didn't even bother to look at the text message exchange, they just interviewed Tim and took his word, then went to the cops, because she didn't pay for a kids membership and full membership and got her charged, great work by cricket Tasmania

And CA's 'investigation' & action when informed 2 years ago was?

 

[Phone]

I asked the question and I don't think the answers in that article really count as 'wild mood swings'. The writer is at pains to keep reiterating that none of the examples on their own tell the story and you have to add them up, likely because none of the stories seem particularly wild. Not saying there's no truth to the rumours, but just as equally, could be two people that don't get along because of different levels of intensity, and let's be honest, Australian cricket coach is a more intense job than media manager.

The fourth paragraph also contains:

Some players didn’t like walking past Langer’s seat on the team bus lest they prompted a negative response. If things weren’t going well, the odd player would ask,“How’s the grumpy coach?”

Which is not a major story, but is an instantly recognisable feeling for anyone who has a hot and cold authority figure in their life. And to me, the FoxSports article about the changed training session around the time Langer found out he didn't get as much cash as the players from the doco, when combined with Langer's earlier apology for his behaviour on this matter, seems awfully coincidental. And of course that relates to Conn's main point in his article (as he literally says in the article), Langer blowing up about things that don't matter*, like Marnus' sandwich in the dug-out (so not onto the playing field meaning no-one can draw a long bow to ball tampering) and Ellis wearing a watch onto the field on his maiden tour under Langer (of course, Australian cricket is filled with weridos who hate it when players wear 'jewellery' onto the field, as we see and hear in most BBL's....)

Now, I'm reminded of Atherton's article during the KP saga, where he points out that if you mention every little grievance in a dressing room, you end up with a distorted picture, and I'm sure that's partially true here. I'm sure there were weeks where everything was fine. But equally, there's a death by a thousand cuts feel to it, and given everything that has actually happened since these stories first came out, I don't think there's very much reason to believe that the rumours about the "mood-swings" being an issue with the playing group are untrue. It's a fact that the CEO and Chairman got involved and shook things up. I doubt they did that because they heard only the story of Marnus' sandwich and they felt they had no other option. And once that happened, it's awfully hard to see how a contract that made both sides happy could ever been found (which of course is exactly what happened)

*I would argue even if Langer quote unquote deserved more money, an individual not getting a better deal than a union doing some collective bargaining falls very much in the "who cares" field.