Coach Grumpy

[GoDees2021]

i think the point is he making is that they need a coach who is going to teach them something and refine their games.

The time of a fire and brim stone coach is from AFL in the 90s.

They have coaches for that, you think JL is giving Starc swing bowling lessons? His job is to glue the team together and create a winning competitive environment

 

[Grand Uncle Horace]

Pretty clear BNG is really thick. Cummins only referenced standards, love of the baggy green. Zip about coaching.

 

[Westend]

That's not a positive. Khawaja was right, the days of captains being solely in charge of the team is no longer viable. The idea that Cummins is best placed to assess his own strengths and weaknesses is flawed, the idea that he could do the same for other players is absurd. Yes, they each have their own coaches but someone needs to have a look at the bigger picture.

The perception remains that the players pushed Langer out, that the next coach will be more of a yes-man to the players; the last time we let the inmates run the asylum, someone thought it was a good idea to take sandpaper out on to the field.

Yup and those players are still there from sandpaper gate

 

[HirdsTheWord]

They have coaches for that, you think JL is giving Starc swing bowling lessons? His job is to glue the team together and create a winning competitive environment

Cummins is a great bowler. But he is not fooling anyone.

The head Coach does not teach skills, theres a god damn line coach for all of them

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Yeah so other than not playing Finch you have nothing else to back up your weird claims that he should have been sacked.

Losing to India TWICE at home is enough for him to go. End of the day we should be belting an awful England side. You shouldn't be losing two series' at home to India.

 

[Belnakor]

There is literally a line coach for every skill, whos job it is to coach and refine that certain skill whether is batting bowling or fielding.

That is not the head coach's job.

It is a bullshit excuse.

I think this was literally feedback to Langer is that he needed to delegate more to the specialist coaches?

 

[Blue1980]

So from that, coaches better treat the players like soft cuddly bears instead of intensity, as they don’t want to be pushed too hard to win. It’s players vs whoever gets hired. Yeah good luck

No, that’s the simple narrative being pushed.

The whole “the new generation can’t handle being told how it is and don’t like hard work!”

Could of copy and pasted it from the days of Bob Simpson really.

 

[swanssince2002]

Anyways, the proof will be in the upcoming subcontinent tours now. It’s up to them and if they win against Pakistan somehow, then more power to the players. Tip your cap to them despite this situation.

 

[Woody15]

That's not a positive. Khawaja was right, the days of captains being solely in charge of the team is no longer viable. The idea that Cummins is best placed to assess his own strengths and weaknesses is flawed, the idea that he could do the same for other players is absurd. Yes, they each have their own coaches but someone needs to have a look at the bigger picture.

The perception remains that the players pushed Langer out, that the next coach will be more of a yes-man to the players; the last time we let the inmates run the asylum, someone thought it was a good idea to take sandpaper out on to the field.

Really well put. Completely agree.

 

[Belnakor]

Losing to India TWICE at home is enough for him to go. End of the day we should be belting an awful England side. You shouldn't be losing two series' at home to India.

the first one you give him a pass since we were missing our two best batsman and also had various other issues.

the second one was appalling captaincy and tactics, both of which should be driven by the coach.

 

[GoDees2021]

Losing to India TWICE at home is enough for him to go. End of the day we should be belting an awful England side. You shouldn't be losing two series' at home to India.

Allright mate im over this, you havent actually provided any good reasons just some blow hard stuff. May aswell sack Cummins then because he was the lead bowler in losing 2 series against India

 

[Belnakor]

The perception remains that the players pushed Langer out, that the next coach will be more of a yes-man to the players; the last time we let the inmates run the asylum, someone thought it was a good idea to take sandpaper out on to the field.

if the Brisbane Heat is anything to go by, Lehmann has comprehensively shown himself to be a shit coach. Nothing to do with being a yes-man.

 

[Blue1980]

Anyways, the proof will be in the upcoming subcontinent tours now. It’s up to them and if they win against Pakistan somehow, then more power to the players. Tip your cap to them despite this situation.

Pakistan winning is possible, albeit tough.

Sri Lanka we would be narrow favorites.

India I can’t see how we win a series there.

 

[Belnakor]

Allright mate im over this, you havent actually provided any good reasons just some blow hard stuff. May aswell sack Cummins then because he was the lead bowler in losing 2 series against India

the tactics in the Brisbane test vs India were comically bad. Plus picking Starc for the last test? lol. Thats on the coach.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So from that, coaches better treat the players like soft cuddly bears instead of intensity, as they don’t want to be pushed too hard to win. It’s players vs whoever gets hired. Yeah good luck

There is something in between the two though.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

the first one you give him a pass since we were missing our two best batsman and also had various other issues.

the second one was appalling captaincy and tactics, both of which should be driven by the coach.

Yep it's the one 12 months ago that I have a huge problem with. There were no excuses.

 

[GoDees2021]

the tactics in the Brisbane test vs India were comically bad. Plus picking Starc for the last test? lol. Thats on the coach.

So coaches should be sacked if they have one bad series? Even though for all you know the decision to pick starc came from the captain.

 

[Belnakor]

So coaches should be sacked if they have one bad series? Even though for all you know the decision to pick starc came from the captain.

it was just a great example of Langer's limitations. Same thing happened in England with Stokes.

Langer is like Ross Lyon, coaches effort. Australia now needs to get someone more scientific.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

I think this was literally feedback to Langer is that he needed to delegate more to the specialist coaches?

yeah your right.

langer should stop telling cummins how to swing it.

lol

 

[legend166]

The job of a coach of a rep team is almost fundamentally different to say, an AFL team.

If you're John Longmire, you're taking kids as 18 years and having to instill into them what it takes to become professional AFL players. You're taking young, immature amateurs and trying to turn them into professionals who can perform. It's also likely that unless you're a rookie coach, you're earning more money than 90% of your players, and are more important than 95% of your players on an individual level.

If you're Justin Langer, you're (generally) taking grown men, who are already professionals, and have been selected in the side because they've been identified as the best 11 players in the country. They are vastly closer to the finished product than any AFL player coming in at 18. Of course that's not to say a good coach can't get growth out of a test player, but you get my point. Like, Scott Boland comes in as a full grown man with a wife and kids and a complete understanding of how to perform. In addition, you're also dealing with players who are under immense pressure to perform because they don't have the luxury of long term contracts.

My overall point here is, I don't think Langer's approach works as well in that set up. These guys reach the absolute peak of their sport - they don't need some angry ant yelling at them all the time to get them to perform.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

it was just a great example of Langer's limitations. Same thing happened in England with Stokes.

Langer is like Ross Lyon, coaches effort. Australia now needs to get someone more scientific.

Yep and 4 years is quite a long time in the end

 

[Westend]

the tactics in the Brisbane test vs India were comically bad. Plus picking Starc for the last test? lol. Thats on the coach.

Again blaming Langer for the selections when we lose but no credit for langer when we win

does not compute for me

 

[to1994]

The job of a coach of a rep team is almost fundamentally different to say, an AFL team.

If you're John Longmire, you're taking kids as 18 years and having to instill into them what it takes to become professional AFL players. You're taking young, immature amateurs and trying to turn them into professionals who can perform. It's also likely that unless you're a rookie coach, you're earning more money than 90% of your players, and are more important than 95% of your players on an individual level.

If you're Justin Langer, you're (generally) taking grown men, who are already professionals, and have been selected in the side because they've been identified as the best 11 players in the country. They are vastly closer to the finished product than any AFL player coming in at 18. Of course that's not to say a good coach can't get growth out of a test player, but you get my point. Like, Scott Boland comes in as a full grown man with a wife and kids and a complete understanding of how to perform. In addition, you're also dealing with players who are under immense pressure to perform because they don't have the luxury of long term contracts.

My overall point here is, I don't think Langer's approach works as well in that set up. These guys reach the absolute peak of their sport - they don't need some angry ant yelling at them all the time to get them to perform.

Good analysis. You could see someone like Langer being the right fit for sides like the West Indies, Sri Lanka and of course even England these days. These are sides that are just unable to produce international quality from their domestic setups and instead have to teach the right talent on the job. You'd think Langer would do much better in those environments.

 

[deanc]

well its his team now.

CA might have thought they were putting in a board puppet like Paine. I think they are now being disabused of that.

A puppet like Paine, really? This may shock you, but Cummins's current disposition is partly due to Paine's leadership, which included Paine's intervention with Langer to discuss his players concerns, we'll just pretend that didn't happen shall we..?

Moreover, Paine was publicly criticized when the Poms, specifically Root, were deliberating coming out to Australia for the Ashes, quote; "The Ashes are going ahead. The first Test is on December 8th, whether Joe is here or not!" This hardly sounds like the words of a "CA puppet' to me..?

 

[legend166]

Good analysis. You could see someone like Langer being the right fit for sides like the West Indies, Sri Lanka and of course even England these days. These are sides that are just unable to produce international quality from their domestic setups and instead have to teach the right talent on the job. You'd think Langer would do much better in those environments.

Well I mean, even just look at him in the BBL where he was wildly successful - it's 8 weeks so a lot less time to grate on players, and he's having to deal with a lot more young & developing players. I think that set up suits him very well.