Coach Grumpy

[anchor man]

Perhaps - but this is just 3rd hand whispers and innuendo at best..? Most people know JL's papers were stamped (for certain) when he publicly defended Paine's resignation with comments that were not at all favourable to his employer, including his emotional retort at the media.

Accordingly, related discussions thereafter, involving who and where, were/are mainly irrelevant to story the media won't let die, mainly because none of the current players are publicly acknowledging the media's ongoing 'JL mutiny' narrative...

The current players know that what is here is the truth.
Not game to come out and say what they want.
Pussy foot about without saying anything.
Very much like a certain politician.

 

[deanc]

The current players know that what is here is the truth.
Not game to come out and say what they want.
Pussy foot about without saying anything.
Very much like a certain politician.

Time to move on is my point AM - what's done is done! We are into 'flogging a dead horse' territory now and the players will have their say in their future biographies, next headline please...

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Pat's an alpha male, I can't imagine he'd take too much into what Warner says. Smith he'd look to for some guidance

umm id say the last few weeks has shown Pat to be anything but an Alpha Male.

The way he pussy footed around the Langer situation has him more at white ant level than anything else.

being a good bowler and or captain does not go hand in hand with being the alpha of the group.

 

[Mikevk123]

Don’t know why everyone’s bashing Cummins. It’s been pretty common knowledge the players don’t get along with JL in a working environment.

His bias against Khawaja left us in a hole where he very well could have been opening instead of Bancroft, Harris, Burns etc. He cost us last summer as well due to his selections of Starc and Lyon when they were cooked.

The older players can talk as much shit as they want but the truth is they did the same thing back in there days. Under Taylor and Clarke.

As a whole Cricket Australia needs to get there act together. We need to get the Australia A team, BBL, Shield and the one day tournament running properly. The batting is the worst in depth we’ve had in 40 years. Only Smith, Warner, Khawja, Laubschange, SMarsh and Head average 40 or more at first class level.

Edit** Wade, Maddinson, Green, Pucvoski and Ward average 40 or above. Ward has played less than 10 matches.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Don’t know why everyone’s bashing Cummins. It’s been pretty common knowledge the players don’t get along with JL in a working environment.

His bias against Khawaja left us in a hole where he very well could have been opening instead of Bancroft, Harris, Burns etc. He cost us last summer as well due to his selections of Starc and Lyon when they were cooked.

The older players can talk as much sh*t as they want but the truth is they did the same thing back in there days. Under Taylor and Clarke.

As a whole Cricket Australia needs to get there act together. We need to get the Australia A team, BBL, Shield and the one day tournament running properly. The batting is the worst in depth we’ve had in 40 years. Only Smith, Warner, Khawja, Laubschange, SMarsh and Head average 40 or more at first class level.

Very well said. Especially the last paragraph

 

[corbies]

Don’t know why everyone’s bashing Cummins. It’s been pretty common knowledge the players don’t get along with JL in a working environment.

His bias against Khawaja left us in a hole where he very well could have been opening instead of Bancroft, Harris, Burns etc. He cost us last summer as well due to his selections of Starc and Lyon when they were cooked.

The older players can talk as much sh*t as they want but the truth is they did the same thing back in there days. Under Taylor and Clarke.

As a whole Cricket Australia needs to get there act together. We need to get the Australia A team, BBL, Shield and the one day tournament running properly. The batting is the worst in depth we’ve had in 40 years. Only Smith, Warner, Khawja, Laubschange, SMarsh and Head average 40 or more at first class level.

Cam Green? Will Pucovski? Matthew Wade? Tim Ward (although not many games)? Nic Maddinson?

 

[Del28562]

umm id say the last few weeks has shown Pat to be anything but an Alpha Male.

The way he pussy footed around the Langer situation has him more at white ant level than anything else.

being a good bowler and or captain does not go hand in hand with being the alpha of the group.

Name me a fast bowler that's not the alpha male leading the group, you need to have that in you to be the best bowler in the team and world.

That's garbage about Langer, what was he supposed to say? Anyone would think Justin Langer invented cricket with the amount of coverage this has got over the last month. He was a very serviceable batsmen, who elevated his game as an opener, but when most sides had depleted attacks. He was never considered to be a guy you'd turn to for tactical nous within the Australian side, he did a good job as coach over his tenure, but the teams outgrown his coaching and that's ok

 

[LukeParkerno1]

Cam Green? Will Pucovski? Matthew Wade? Tim Ward (although not many games)? Nic Maddinson?

Not too deep though especially if you take Pucovski out who knows what his availability is

 

[John Smith92]

Name me a fast bowler that's not the alpha male leading the group, you need to have that in you to be the best bowler in the team and world.

That's garbage about Langer, what was he supposed to say? Anyone would think Justin Langer invented cricket with the amount of coverage this has got over the last month. He was a very serviceable batsmen, who elevated his game as an opener, but when most sides had depleted attacks. He was never considered to be a guy you'd turn to for tactical nous within the Australian side, he did a good job as coach over his tenure, but the teams outgrown his coaching and that's ok

Its a generational thing at this point. If you're 40+, players are treacherous, white-anting, soft, woke, communist scum who stabbed an all time great coach in the back. If you're under 40, nothing to see here move on.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Name me a fast bowler that's not the alpha male leading the group, you need to have that in you to be the best bowler in the team and world.

That's garbage about Langer, what was he supposed to say? Anyone would think Justin Langer invented cricket with the amount of coverage this has got over the last month. He was a very serviceable batsmen, who elevated his game as an opener, but when most sides had depleted attacks. He was never considered to be a guy you'd turn to for tactical nous within the Australian side, he did a good job as coach over his tenure, but the teams outgrown his coaching and that's ok

there are plenty of Fast Bowlers who aren't leaders? McGrath, Fleming, Gillespie etc etc. None were "Alpha Males"

What's he supposed to say? The Truth maybe? He openly said he had no issues with Langer's coaching nor his aggression. He then goes on to say he wants a skills based head coach, what's he want Langer to help him swing the ball? lol just **** off. Utter bullshit. What are the line coaches for exactly? The head coaches job is not to teach skills.

If he didn't want Langer because he was too demanding of them then just say it, not be a little pussy hiding behind politics and bullshit reasons. Has nothing to do with who the head coach is whether its Langer or anyone else. It was a white ant job by CA and Cummins and that's what's shit about it, not who they did it too.

 

[SSwans2011]

If he didn't want Langer because he was too demanding of them then just say it, not be a little pussy hiding behind politics and bullshit reasons. Has nothing to do with who the head coach is. it was a white ant job by CA and Cummins and that's what's sh*t about it, not who they did it too.

Please expand on your white ant theory. Start with your basis for it and what they would be hoping to achieve.

Also, I've previously asked you where Cummins said he had no problem with Langer's coaching style, and you didn't answer but you keep pushing it as a fact. It seems like you're taking a bit of creative leeway in attributing meaning to Pat's statement to reinforce your desired narrative.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Please expand on your white ant theory. Start with your basis for it and what they would be hoping to achieve.

Also, I've previously asked you where Cummins said he had no problem with Langer's coaching style, and you didn't answer but you keep pushing it as a fact. It seems like you're taking a bit of creative leeway in attributing meaning to Pat's statement to reinforce your desired narrative.

Cummins said that Langer’s apology on leaving the team was “unnecessary”, claiming that players were “ok” with his intensity.

The fast bowler said he believed Langer’s intensity helped drive a better team culture and higher team standards, adding that he would be a welcome face in the Australian dressing rooms.

The Macquarie Dictionary says the verb "to white-ant" means "to subvert or undermine from within"

Not sure how else to answer you, but its clear as crystal.

 

[the_interloper]

Not too deep though especially if you take Pucovski out who knows what his availability is

Pucovski should retire, if he was a boxer they'd tell him to after that many concussions.

 

[SSwans2011]

Cummins said that Langer’s apology on leaving the team was “unnecessary”, claiming that players were “ok” with his intensity.

The fast bowler said he believed Langer’s intensity helped drive a better team culture and higher team standards, adding that he would be a welcome face in the Australian dressing rooms.

If Langer's coaching style is so one-dimensional that his intensity is his only feature, it's no wonder he's been sacked.

But you still haven't pointed to me anywhere where Cummims says he has no issue with Langer's coaching style. Saying that the playing group were okay with Langer's intensity is not the same thing.

The Macquarie Dictionary says the verb "to white-ant" means "to subvert or undermine from within"

Not sure how else to answer you, but its clear as crystal.

Okay, well then do you want to tell me how almost every instance of a coach getting sacked ever isn't white anting?

Because I'm pretty sure coaches are only ever sacked from within a club or organisation.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

If Langer's coaching style is so one-dimensional that his intensity is his only feature, it's no wonder he's been sacked.

But you still haven't pointed to me anywhere where Cummims says he has no issue with Langer's coaching style. Saying that the playing group were okay with Langer's intensity is not the same thing.

Okay, well then do you want to tell me how almost every instance of a coach getting sacked ever isn't white anting?

Because I'm pretty sure coaches are only ever sacked from within a club or organisation.

I didn't use the word Coaching Style, you are using the word Style. When I say coaching I am specifically referring to his "intensity" of which Cummins said he has no issue. Its quite hard to argue a point when you are introducing things I did not say.

The Sacking would depend on the situation, again you are likening something to what is not the normal. You clearly don't like it but white anting clearly occurred. Most other Coaches who are successful are not sacked. Usually people are sacked when they do not win games and or because they have done something that makes their position untenable. Langer was neither. Even so it doesn't matter if there are irreparable issues. If the players don't want Langer then fine, sack him. All i'm saying is be honest about it the reasons why, not make up bullshit excuses about wanting a head coach to teach skills rofl when that is not their job.

 

[JackOutback]

Only Smith, Warner, Khawja, Laubschange, SMarsh and Head average 40 or more at first class level.

Well, there's the solution.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

I didn't use the word Coaching Style, you are using the word Style. When I say coaching I am specifically referring to his "intensity" of which Cummins said he has no issue. Its quite hard to argue a point when you are introducing things I did not say.

The Sacking would depend on the situation, again you are likening something to what is not the normal. You clearly don't like it but white anting clearly occurred. Most other Coaches who are successful are not sacked. Usually people are sacked when they do not win games and or because they have done something that makes their position untenable. Langer was neither. Even so it doesn't matter if there are irreparable issues. If the players don't want Langer then fine, sack him. All i'm saying is be honest about it the reasons why, not make up bullshit excuses about wanting a head coach to teach skills rofl when that is not their job.

Funny measurement of success which includes two home series losses to India…the only mistake was it didn’t occur last year!

 

[HirdsTheWord]

Funny measurement of success which includes two home series losses to India…the only mistake was it didn’t occur last year!

So? then sack him after those India losses if that's the measure of success, not after he's just won an Ashes series 4-0 and a maiden T20 world cup.

 

[SSwans2011]

I didn't use the word Coaching Style, you are using the word Style. When I say coaching I am specifically referring to his "intensity" of which Cummins said he has no issue. Its quite hard to argue a point when you are introducing things I did not say.

So the words "coaching" and "intensity" can be used interchangeably, but the phrases "coaching" and "coaching style" can't? Righto, I'll try to remember that. Maybe you can "intense" me on it.

The Sacking would depend on the situation, again you are likening something to what is not the normal. You clearly don't like it but white anting clearly occurred. Most other Coaches who are successful are not sacked. Usually people are sacked when they do not win games and or because they have done something that makes their position untenable. Langer was neither. Even so it doesn't matter if there are irreparable issues. If the players dont want Langer than fine, sack him. All i'm saying is be honest about it the reasons why.

I don't give two hoots if there was or wasn't white anting tbh. I'm still a bit confused by how the definition of "white anting" you posted doesn't apply to almost every instance of a coach getting sacked ever, thereby taking away all its meaning.

This is international cricket, the players have more power than in domestic sporting competitions, and any coach that isn't well-liked by his squad won't last long. You might not like it, but it's not exactly a new phenomenon.

 

[LukeParkerno1]

So? then sack him after those India losses if that's the measure of success, not after he's just won an Ashes series 4-0 and a maiden T20 world cup.

I agree. That was the only mistake the timing. The decision was correct.

 

[HirdsTheWord]

So the words "coaching" and "intensity" can be used interchangeably, but the phrases "coaching" and "coaching style" can't? Righto, I'll try to remember that. Maybe you can "intense" me on it.

I don't give two hoots if there was or wasn't white anting tbh. I'm still a bit confused by how the definition of "white anting" you posted doesn't apply to almost every instance of a coach getting sacked ever, thereby taking away all its meaning.

This is international cricket, the players have more power than in domestic sporting competitions, and any coach that isn't well-liked by his squad won't last long. You might not like it, but it's not exactly a new phenomenon.

Again I have no issues as long as there is honesty of which their wasn’t. If Cumiins said the truth I would have minded one bit, but he chose to be a whimp about it.

You have your opinion I guess, I have mine.

 

[Del28562]

there are plenty of Fast Bowlers who aren't leaders? McGrath, Fleming, Gillespie etc etc. None were "Alpha Males"

What's he supposed to say? The Truth maybe? He openly said he had no issues with Langer's coaching nor his aggression. He then goes on to say he wants a skills based head coach, what's he want Langer to help him swing the ball? lol just fu** off. Utter bullshit. What are the line coaches for exactly? The head coaches job is not to teach skills.

If he didn't want Langer because he was too demanding of them then just say it, not be a little pussy hiding behind politics and bullshit reasons. Has nothing to do with who the head coach is whether its Langer or anyone else. It was a white ant job by CA and Cummins and that's what's sh*t about it, not who they did it too.

McGrath targetted the best bat in every opposition we played and openly discussed it with the press before each series, I don't know what's not alpha about that that, and he was the leader of the fast bowling group, not dizzy or the bowlogist.

If he came out and Justins are a real pain in the arse, he's lost the respect of the group, how would that go down? I've got no doubt 12 months ago Langer, the players and CA sat down and agreed to allow Langer to see out his contract, with Langer to ease up and allow the assistants more time with the players, next thing we start winning and JL thinks it's time to renew his contract

 

[John Smith92]

McGrath targetted the best bat in every opposition we played and openly discussed it with the press before each series, I don't know what's not alpha about that that, and he was the leader of the fast bowling group, not dizzy or the bowlogist.

If he came out and Justins are a real pain in the arse, he's lost the respect of the group, how would that go down? I've got no doubt 12 months ago Langer, the players and CA sat down and agreed to allow Langer to see out his contract, with Langer to ease up and allow the assistants more time with the players, next thing we start winning and JL thinks it's time to renew his contract

Seems like shit hit the fan middle of last year, players went to CA with their issues and said they want Langer gone, CA said they'd have to live with him until his contract was up and tried mediation to resolve the worst of the issues, players agreed and continued to do their job professionally (winning WC and Ashes). Then when all the media noise about an extension started halfway through the ashes they made it clear to CA that they'd still prefer him gone while doing their best to keep things civil and avoid a shitfight while Langer was on his way out the door. Honestly Langer's apology for being too intense sounded passive aggressive as **** to me

 

[anchor man]

Seems like sh*t hit the fan middle of last year, players went to CA with their issues and said they want Langer gone, CA said they'd have to live with him until his contract was up and tried mediation to resolve the worst of the issues, players agreed and continued to do their job professionally (winning WC and Ashes). Then when all the media noise about an extension started halfway through the ashes they made it clear to CA that they'd still prefer him gone while doing their best to keep things civil and avoid a shitfight while Langer was on his way out the door. Honestly Langer's apology for being too intense sounded passive aggressive as fu** to me

The tail wagging the dog.
Some didn't like to have their short coming pointed out.
Prima Donnas many of them.

 

[Demons09]

Don’t worry Patty you just do what smitty and Davey tell you to do like a good little boy.