Coach Grumpy

[aussierulesrules]

All the evidence suggests that Langer has one of the personality disorders, narcissism, sociopathy, or psychopathy. And I’m not even slightly kidding on that.

Most likely narcissism, as all that you hear about him (including from Malcolm Conn’s article in the OP, from having spent months working with him) suggests narcissistic personality disorder, at the very least.

Those who have NPD are generally an absolute nightmare to work with/for/under, or to be in a relationship with, etc, and it’s no surprise at all to see Conn say that he learned quickly to stay out of JL’s way.

It’s also no surprise at all to hear that no-one wanted to confront JL about things to his face, as confronting those who are very narcissistic is basically like going up to a fire and throwing a bucket of petrol on it.

They have such overblown opinions of themselves that they legitimately believe they can do no wrong, and that the things they believe to be the case are essentially indisputable facts, rather than just their own personal opinion.

I’ve grown up with this in my family and there’s about as much point arguing with a “narcissist” as there is going outside and banging your head against the nearest tree.

All they are capable of seeing is their perspective and POV, and no amount of indisputable evidence to the contrary will sway them from their view.

You learn very quickly to stay the hell away from them as much as possible, and to engage with them as little as possible, and it seems almost certain that this is what happened with the Australian cricket team (and those closely associated with it) under Langer.

All the evidence is pointing that way.

It’s no working environment, and does all kinds of mental/emotional/psychological damage to those who endure it.

Another textbook move of the “narcissist” is to go on a smear-campaign against those who dare to defy, or go against them in any way, in which they’ll rubbish those who they’ve narcissistically abused, and make themselves out to be the “victim”, when in fact they are the ones who have abused and/or victimised others.

And they’re usually very successful at this (as we’re seeing now with the public siding with Langer), as they are masters at being one way behind closed doors/behind the scenes, but at then putting on a completely different face for the general public, or those they only interact with for relatively short periods of time.

Those people will think the world of them, as they’re able to put on a show for short periods of time (eg they can be the life of a party), while those who know them behind closed doors, or behind the scenes, will know the real them. And it ain’t pretty.

But then of course when those who’ve born the brunt of their temper tantrums and abuse and so-on get sick of it and end whatever the relationship with them is, the “narcissist” will then go on a smear campaign against them to the outside world, who think the world of them, and as such, they’ll swallow their story whole, and feel like they’re the victim.

It’s insidious.

Those who have been abused and victimised on a micro level, then can get abused on a much grander scale, by those who swallow the “narcs” sob story.

As we are almost certainly seeing now, with the public pile-on on Cummins and co, who almost certainly did what any self-respecting people who don’t deserve to be treated disrespectfully in their workplace would do.

 

[aussierulesrules]

The key giveaway that JL has at the very least NPD (if not psychopathic or sociopathic traits) is of course what we’re hearing about his “volitility”.

When those who are very narcissistic don’t get their way, or when they get confronted, accused of anything, etc they go into what’s known as “narcissistic rage”.

That’s where they fly off the handle at the smallest things (like Conn spoke about in his article), or if they get way madder at things that the average person would just get a little bit mad about.

If you know someone (or numerous people) like this, and they also have some of the things I mentioned in the previous post going on, chances are extremely high that you’re dealing with a “narcissist”.

And they’re far far more prevalent (and insidious) than almost everyone realises, estimated at approximately 15% of the population.

Add in the estimated 3% who are clinically considered “psychopaths”, and all those who are “sociopaths” and you’re looking at approximately 1 in every 5 people on average.

And if you don’t know what/who you’re dealing with, you’ll just keep banging your head against that tree and so-on.

If you haven’t done so already, I strongly suggest you educate yourself on how to spot and deal with “narcissists” in particular, as they are the most prevalent of those 3 personality disorders.

It would be a minor miracle if you’re not dealing with at least one in your everyday life. And probably multiple on here (those who constantly seek attention, argue till the cows come home, create strawman arguments, bait you, talk down to others, etc).

If I’d known what I was dealing with and how to handle it sooner, it would have done me the world of good, and saved an awful lot of grief/pain/frustration/disappointment/loss, etc etc.

 

[eltrain]

He’s a hardcore Catholic and has previously expressed interest in becoming a Liberal MP.

Not sure what this has to do with anything tbh. Some weirdos on this forum have an unhealthy obsession with players/coaches religious and political views (Cummins/Usman/Hayden/Marnus etc) that have no relevance to the game whatsoever.

One of the reasons this silly issue still takes up real estate on half the active threads on this board is because people keep attributing a political lens to it, going in to bat for one side or the other.

 

[Demons09]

Not sure what this has to do with anything tbh. Some weirdos on this forum have an unhealthy obsession with players/coaches religious and political views (Cummins/Usman/Hayden/Marnus etc) that have no relevance to the game whatsoever.

Wtf is wrong with people now a days where the political or religious views have a bearing on who you want playing for your nation faarkin bizaare.

 

[Westend]

So more to add to this list

grumpy clown Weird Weid Unit Opus dei small man syndrome terrible commentator future liberal member hardcore catholic little bitch psychopathic or sociopathic traits narcissist

the thread thats keeps on giving

 

[Demons09]

So more to add to this list

grumpy clown Weird Weid Unit Opus dei small man syndrome terrible commentator future liberal member hardcore catholic little bitch psychopathic or sociopathic traits narcissist

the thread thats keeps on giving

Don’t forget walking past the stumps and knocking the bails off lol.

 

[corbies]

Wtf is wrong with people now a days where the political or religious views have a bearing on who you want playing for your nation faarkin bizaare.

Didn't you call the players a bunch of woke soft *****? So its just their social views that has a bearing on who you want playing for your nation?

 

[Demons09]

Didn't you call the players a bunch of woke soft *****? So its just their social views that has a bearing on who you want playing for your nation?

No I didn’t.

 

[corbies]

No I didn’t.

Lets face it he was coaching a bunch of woke soft ***** , especially the new captain tail wagging the dog.

 

[Richard Cranium]

So more to add to this list

grumpy clown Weird Weid Unit Opus dei small man syndrome terrible commentator future liberal member hardcore catholic little bitch psychopathic or sociopathic traits narcissist

the thread thats keeps on giving

It's amazing how a large group of people seem quite content not having to deal with a bloke anymore, yet it's totally impossible that said bloke may actually just be a bit of a campaigner.

 

[SSwans2011]

So more to add to this list

grumpy clown Weird Weid Unit Opus dei small man syndrome terrible commentator future liberal member hardcore catholic little bitch psychopathic or sociopathic traits narcissist

the thread thats keeps on giving

Now do one for all the different names people have called Cummins.

You can start with the several times you trotted out the very original and clever "captain woke".

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Now do one for all the different names people have called Cummins.

You can start with the several times you trotted out the very original and clever "captain woke".

The issue is being used as a culture war topic by the right. They started it and it's only fair we on the left get to reply in kind!

 

[largebus]

The bigfooty-diagnosed narcissist sociopathic Catholic Liberal candidate says there's no rift between him and Captain Woke, says he spoke to him on Monday.
So who were the "cowards" who leaked then?

 

[Richard Pryor]

The bigfooty-diagnosed narcissist sociopathic Catholic Liberal candidate says there's no rift between him and Captain Woke, says he spoke to him on Monday.
So who were the "cowards" who leaked then?

I hope its Usman Khawaja.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

I hope its Usman Khawaja.

Langer treated Usman like shit, kept him out of the side for 2 years because he had the guts to stand up to him.

 

[largebus]

I hope its Usman Khawaja.

He was his biggest public supporter last year even though he wasn't really in the team and there was a reported rift between them. I doubt he wouldve put a video out if he wanted him out.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

The bigfooty-diagnosed narcissist sociopathic Catholic Liberal candidate says there's no rift between him and Captain Woke, says he spoke to him on Monday.
So who were the "cowards" who leaked then?

woke

Alert to injustice in society, especially racism.

 

[eddiesmith]

Unfortunately for you guys on BF you don’t echo the general public, and you haven’t answered my answer why do you reckon CA and the Aussie cricket team are on the nose can’t be the fall out from the Langer debacle surely.

Look at the current Australian team and there is just not a single likeable bloke in it.

 

[Ohitsthatguy]

Look at the current Australian team and there is just not a single likeable bloke in it.

You're a Pom...

 

[corbies]

Langer treated Usman like s**t, kept him out of the side for 2 years because he had the guts to stand up to him.

Usman just had to make some decent runs at some point during the 2019 Ashes and he would have stayed in the side. He could hardly complain he was left out given Smith had to come back in and Marnus had to stay in the side after how well he did replacing Smith.

It was either him, Head, Warner, Harris or Wade that had to be dropped. Obviously in hindsight one of Warner or Harris should have gone but Warner had made 68 out of a total of 190 the Test before and Harris had only come back in for 1 Test.

Khawaja had made 432 runs @ 29 since the India series at the start of that summer which included a hundred against Sri Lanka in the 2nd innings when we led by 300 after the 1st innings.

It was a borderline decision but it was hardly like he was dropped purely because he disagreed with Langer about certain coaching.

 

[CrazyJoeFevola]

Look at the current Australian team and there is just not a single likeable bloke in it.

There's others that are likeable but I don't know how you could possibly find Khawaja unlikeable? Happy go lucky, affable, engaging guy.

 

[Richard Pryor]

He was his biggest public supporter last year even though he wasn't really in the team and there was a reported rift between them. I doubt he wouldve put a video out if he wanted him out.

What better way to throw Langer off the scent? Khawaja is playing chess while everyone else has been playing checkers.

 

[SSwans2011]

There's others that are likeable but I don't know how you could possibly find Khawaja unlikeable? Happy go lucky, affable, engaging guy.

He did made Eddie look like a goose, though. He spent years saying Khawaja wasn't good enough for Test cricket, just for Khawaja to come back and push his average higher than any English batter this century, except Root and KP (could pass the latter with a good home summer too).

 

[JackOutback]

It's amazing how a large group of people seem quite content not having to deal with a bloke anymore, yet it's totally impossible that said bloke may actually just be a bit of a campaigner.

I've said consistently that Langer is overly intense and, yes, a campaigner. But he is also a successful coach, a role that sometimes requires a campaigner. People forget Langer took over when the Australian team drank enough of its own bathwater that they thought they could take sandpaper on to a field and damage the ball. I know some people like to downplay it as ball tampering 'like all the other countries do' but this was above and beyond and was an absolute embarrassment to the team. The team, which included Cummins and Hazelwood and the whole leadership structure still in place, needed a kick in the ass. Now, after a few hard years, the same people say they don't need it, he's too hard on them, they know how to get the best out of themselves etc?

My main issue is that this sacking was player driven, when the players were a large part of the problem. I don't have an issue with CA moving Langer on if they don't think he is getting the best out of the players on and off the field, but I do have an issue with installing player-friendly coaches when I think the playing group still has an issue. Langer's coaching is generally well respected by the WA players he's coached, but perhaps state players have their heads up their own asses less than internatonal players,

 

[SSwans2011]

But he is also a successful coach, a role that sometimes requires a campaigner.

I don't entirely agree with the first part of this - his record is comparable to Lehmann's, and Lehmann was well on his way to being sacked prior to the ball-tampering saga. I guess they're both technically "successful coaches" but this doesn't necessarily mean either deserved to keep their job. Although, in Langer's case he was welcome to keep his job.

I don't think the second part is true at all. I'm actually not sure I can think of any job ever where being a campaigner would (or at least should) be a prerequisite in any circumstances. I think that's a pretty big reach.

I know some people like to downplay it as ball tampering 'like all the other countries do' but this was above and beyond

Not sure I follow you here. How was it above and beyond compared to other ball tampering incidents? Ball tampering is ball tampering.