Coach Coaching 2022

[PlayerNumber9]

Having had the good fortune to hear some assistant coaches speak, I formed the impression that they mostly appear to be what I call "industry experts". They have been in a particular industry since leaving school, have a lot of contacts, have a reasonable reputation for performance and are likeable. They know all the in-house jargon, and understand most of the concepts involved and used for most of the planning.

That puts them in the same space as rafts of corporate middle managers. What they lack, and what the role probably requires to enable elite performance, is critical thinking. There is a "group think" orthodoxy that delivers "acceptable" performance, without having the capacity to produce something extraordinary.

Assistant coaches have the luxury of not being public facing, so they can speak in industry jargon with no consideration of how the man-in-the-street perceives things. The head coach has to sell it to members (via the media) and so they need to be great marketers.

The flip side of this is that we are exposed to the head coaches, but largely have no concept of what the assistants are doing, what they're trying to achieve, and why. Some examples:

1). Early season we leaked goals, but his was largely due to the lack of defensive pressure up the field. Is it the back line coach's responsibility to work with the mids and forwards on their defensive pressure, or does this fall to their line coaches? How much input does the back line coach have into the team defence?

2). Post the bye, we turned this around. Does the back line coach get credit for the improvement, even if it's largely driven from improvements in the midfield and forward line? What improvements were made to the defensive craft that led to this improvement?

Bottom line is that modern football has a level of detail that very few of us are aware of, and as a result, we can't really assess the effectiveness of the coaching. As an example, I think Teague had improved Carlton's performance this year, particularly when you consider where they have been the last few years. Overall however, he wasn't able to sell that to the punters, and the idea that it would take more time. The board didn't see that he was making fast enough progress and sacks him. Yet within a fortnight he's been appointed by Richmond, who are obviously impressed enough with his coaching performance (I know it's not into a direct role, but it is still in coaching).

A further example. If you are diagnosed with cancer, how do you know if your oncologist is any good? She's an "industry expert"; she's worked in the medical industry since leaving school, has lots of contacts, has a good reputation for performance and is likeable. They talk in lots of jargon, and seem to understand most of the concepts involved. Unlike you (or me). What will make them good for you is if they can explain things so that you understand it. But the only people who can really assess whether they're any good is other medical professionals.

 

[True Believer]

Interesting, Clarkson and Hardwick were both assistants haha

Yes they were, but I did say..... "they mostly appear to be"

 

[True Believer]

Assistant coaches have the luxury of not being public facing, so they can speak in industry jargon with no consideration of how the man-in-the-street perceives things. The head coach has to sell it to members (via the media) and so they need to be great marketers.

The flip side of this is that we are exposed to the head coaches, but largely have no concept of what the assistants are doing, what they're trying to achieve, and why. Some examples:

1). Early season we leaked goals, but his was largely due to the lack of defensive pressure up the field. Is it the back line coach's responsibility to work with the mids and forwards on their defensive pressure, or does this fall to their line coaches? How much input does the back line coach have into the team defence?

2). Post the bye, we turned this around. Does the back line coach get credit for the improvement, even if it's largely driven from improvements in the midfield and forward line? What improvements were made to the defensive craft that led to this improvement?

Bottom line is that modern football has a level of detail that very few of us are aware of, and as a result, we can't really assess the effectiveness of the coaching. As an example, I think Teague had improved Carlton's performance this year, particularly when you consider where they have been the last few years. Overall however, he wasn't able to sell that to the punters, and the idea that it would take more time. The board didn't see that he was making fast enough progress and sacks him. Yet within a fortnight he's been appointed by Richmond, who are obviously impressed enough with his coaching performance (I know it's not into a direct role, but it is still in coaching).

A further example. If you are diagnosed with cancer, how do you know if your oncologist is any good? She's an "industry expert"; she's worked in the medical industry since leaving school, has lots of contacts, has a good reputation for performance and is likeable. They talk in lots of jargon, and seem to understand most of the concepts involved. Unlike you (or me). What will make them good for you is if they can explain things so that you understand it. But the only people who can really assess whether they're any good is other medical professionals.

You didn't really compare an assistant coach to an Oncologist, did you? Haha....... There's no need to get defensive on behalf of the assistant coaches of the AFL. I am sure many of them add some degree of input to their employers objectives, but I am sure there are also a number who manage to survive in the industry for a period without ever really making any noticeable difference. Like many industries, I am sure it is, to some degree, populated by those who are held in some regard by the "right" people, and they can talk the talk.......

 

[Chef Ratts]

Seems like a strange decision Carlton naming Hamill as defensive coach. It's been well documented defence has been their Achilles heel, basically seemed to cost Teague his job. I'd have thought they would've gone with a specialist in that space, whereas looking from the outside in, Sammy appears to be more of a jack of all trades, yet a master of none. I guess time will tell.

 

[gringo2011]

Seems like a strange decision Carlton naming Hamill as defensive coach. It's been well documented defence has been their Achilles heel, basically seemed to cost Teague his job. I'd have thought they would've gone with a specialist in that space, whereas looking from the outside in, Sammy appears to be more of a jack of all trades, yet a master of none. I guess time will tell.

It's even dumber considering they seemed to appoint him before a senior coach. These are exactly the reason the place consistently implodes. Egotistical idiots operating with different plans and agendas and most working against each other for petty one-up man-ship.

 

[AirWinmar]

Seems like a strange decision Carlton naming Hamill as defensive coach. It's been well documented defence has been their Achilles heel, basically seemed to cost Teague his job. I'd have thought they would've gone with a specialist in that space, whereas looking from the outside in, Sammy appears to be more of a jack of all trades, yet a master of none. I guess time will tell.

Probably told them it was him who tightened our defence up in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[Mat Mann]

Seems like a strange decision Carlton naming Hamill as defensive coach. It's been well documented defence has been their Achilles heel, basically seemed to cost Teague his job. I'd have thought they would've gone with a specialist in that space, whereas looking from the outside in, Sammy appears to be more of a jack of all trades, yet a master of none. I guess time will tell.

“A jack of all trades is a master of none, but oftentimes better than a master of one."

 

[NextYearPlease]

Interesting, Clarkson and Hardwick were both assistants haha

Just passing through. Hardly "career" Assistant Coaches.

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[George]

Just passing through. Hardly "career" Assistant Coaches.

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Nobody said anything about career assistant coaches. In the case of Clarkson & Hardwick, it's just two of many examples of coaches having extensive assistant coaching experience before becoming a successful coach. That happens all the time.

 

[NextYearPlease]

Nobody said anything about career assistant coaches. In the case of Clarkson & Hardwick, it's just two of many examples of coaches having extensive assistant coaching experience before becoming a successful coach. That happens all the time.

Hardwick an assistant coach for 5 Years.
Clarkson 3 years.
Hamill 10 years


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[gringo2011]

Hardwick an assistant coach for 5 Years.
Clarkson 3 years.
Hamill 10 years


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There are assistants on the senior coaching pathway and assistant coaches on the happy to be assistant coaches pathway. Guy like Darren Crocker never aspired to be a senior coach and were happy to work developing talent and running lines for the senior coach. Under Richo and Lyon we actually didn't do much delegating so a guy who was an assistant didn't get experience so much as got to observe how to do it. Ratts seems much more of the Clarko style delegator and I think we will target more hands on coaches which probably means guys that are more ambitious than Hamill.

 

[George]

Hardwick an assistant coach for 5 Years.
Clarkson 3 years.
Hamill 10 years


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Clarkson was not an assistant for 3 seasons. He began in 1999 and got the head coaching role at Hawthorn in 2005. Six seasons. Fagan another great example - an assistant from 1999 until 2016 when he was appointed senior coach of the Lions.

Goes to show you that actually the longevity of an assistant coach has absolutely nothing to do with their capability.

 

[True Believer]

Clarkson was not an assistant for 3 seasons. He began in 1999 and got the head coaching role at Hawthorn in 2005. Six seasons. Fagan another great example - an assistant from 1999 until 2016 when he was appointed senior coach of the Lions.

Goes to show you that actually the longevity of an assistant coach has absolutely nothing to do with their capability.

So does that mean that you believe our mediocrity over the course of nearly a decade was our collective of assistant coaches building up the necessary experience? Or maybe they just were part of the problem instead of the solution? Heck, maybe they were all just busy with MENSA meetings......

 

[NextYearPlease]

Clarkson was not an assistant for 3 seasons. He began in 1999 and got the head coaching role at Hawthorn in 2005. Six seasons.

3 of Clarksons 6 seasons 1999 to 2005 were as Head Coach at Werribee / Central Districts.

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[UnfinishedBusiness]

Probably told them it was him who tightened our defence up in the 2nd half of the season.

Do we know that it was/wasn’t?


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[AirWinmar]

Do we know that it was/wasn’t?


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Would make sense that he had something to do with it

 

[George]

So does that mean that you believe our mediocrity over the course of nearly a decade was our collective of assistant coaches building up the necessary experience? Or maybe they just were part of the problem instead of the solution? Heck, maybe they were all just busy with MENSA meetings......

No, it doesn't mean that. Where did you manage to pull that from? I'm giving examples of your assumption being wrong, in that coaches can be assistants for a long time and still transition to becoming a head coach and be successful.

3 of Clarksons 6 seasons 1999 to 2005 were as Head Coach at Werribee / Central Districts.

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This is the problem with not reading what I've said. I said he began coaching in 1999 and got the Hawthorn role in 2005. I didn't say he was an assistant during that time, but he does have extensive coaching experience, at least far more than you suggested he did. It still doesn't disprove the fact that there's successful coaches in the industry that have had extensive coaching experience prior to becoming a head coach. That's the actual point of the discussion, maybe we can focus on that.

 

[True Believer]

It still doesn't disprove the fact that there's successful coaches in the industry that have had extensive assistant coaching experience prior to becoming a head coach

I've never said that wasn't the case! But like most industries the reality is that a significant portion of assistant coaches are simply making up the numbers. Some of them, probably a very small percentage, go on to be great head coaches.....

 

[George]

I've never said that wasn't the case! But like most industries the reality is that a significant portion of assistant coaches are simply making up the numbers. Some of them, probably a very small percentage, go on to be great head coaches.....

There's a very small percentage that become great head coaches regardless. Making up the numbers insinuates they are no good, is that what you're doing? There's many different reasons why an assistant coach doesn't transition well to a head coach or never gets given the opportunity to become one. You heard a few of them speak and now you've stereotyped the entirety of them lol.

 

[kick it lace out]

Dylan Roberton

17

Dylan Roberton

Age

32

Ht

194cm

Wt

94kg

Pos.

Def

Career

Season

Last 5

D

17.1

4star

K

11.4

4star

HB

5.8

4star

M

4.8

5star

T

1.9

4star

MG

373.2

5star

D

8.0

2star

K

7.0

3star

HB

1.0

1star

M

1.0

1star

T

0.0

1star

MG

215.0

3star

D

14.6

4star

K

10.2

4star

HB

4.4

4star

M

4.6

5star

T

1.6

4star

has joined the Bulldogs AFLW programme as a forwards coach.

 

[Murraj1966]

So do we know if we have a new forwards coach?

 

[ScrappyDo]

So do we know if we have a new forwards coach?

View attachment 1257121

Didn't we also get someone to head development?

 

[Minga]

Didn't we also get someone to head development?

Damian Carroll (development) Nick Walsh (fitness) and Corey Enright (Defense) we have brought in thus far.

 

[borderbarry]

And we are yet to add any St.Kilda heart to the coaching panel. Unless you count Dal as the womans coach.

 

[Diehard Saint]

And we are yet to add any St.Kilda heart to the coaching panel. Unless you count Dal as the womans coach.

Barry, I just want the best people for the job.