Strategy Coaching and Strategy Discussion

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HoneyBadger35

Hypocrite and Reprobate
Aug 11, 2011
22,694
58,305
AFL Club
West Coast
For my stance on it, as a noted Simmo sycophant - he gets next year to turn it around. 2017 felt uncannily similar to this, this year has unravelled in such a breathtaking way. You get one off-season to show significant change and retooling of what we have and if not, call time on it.

Think about the 2017-2018 off-season. We were trending down with no hope of salvation. Winning the flag in 2018 was amazing, with the same core but a new midfield mix and an injection of young role players. In a way, winning that flag turned a team that was predicted bottom four and years of pain ahead into a guaranteed premiership chance every year. The underperforming chat doesn’t happen if we don’t win that flag - if we’d just bottomed out then and started a rebuild, Simmo would probably still be here and not be under too much pressure assuming we’d shown some semblance of rebuild in that span.

So in short, he’s done it before. This is 2017. I don’t have the answer of how it comes, I think a new mix of assistants will help though how much I’m not sure. The crux of the gameplan needs to get in the bin. I loved it, at its suffocating best it was a pleasure to watch, but the end product that was once there of grinding teams into the dirt and then attacking incisively after a period of possession isn’t there. It’s been worked out, so now we’re just letting teams set up and wait for the error.

I’ve liked the semblance of corridor and quick ball movement we’ve seen over recent weeks, it really felt like they were trying to mix it up post North, and then yesterday’s game was a brick wall of the highest order. They’re not sacking Simmo, so let’s hope they nail them assistant mix for whatever that’s worth. Gameplan needs an overhaul and an off-season to do it in.

A similar finish/missing finals in 2022 with all but the same group and the same limp showings in five or six games per season like this year - thanks Simmo, loved your work at its best but we’re done here. A similar finish with an actual indicator of change, that injection of young role players we saw in 2018 and a sense of direction again, then that’s a win. One embarrassing loss permitted, it’s sport, there will occasionally be a day where it just isn’t going to happen. That’s the reality. But if we’re back to seeing multiple losses where the endeavour and inability to land a single punch lead to humiliation like we’ve seen four, five, six times this year. Cya later mate.
 

HoneyBadger35

Hypocrite and Reprobate
Aug 11, 2011
22,694
58,305
AFL Club
West Coast
The change needs to come now and not in the off-season. Trial a new gameplan a few weeks back and get a sighter on it in the off-season.
Absolutely, but its hard to do a full scale overhaul while preparing for week to week football and still ultimately wanting to win those games.

I want to see changes in these three weeks, but I don’t think you can judge someone’s ability to overhaul a five+ year gameplan based on three in season weeks at the pointy end.
 

Priddis Is Done

Norm Smith Medallist
May 28, 2017
5,523
6,830
AFL Club
West Coast
Absolutely, but its hard to do a full scale overhaul while preparing for week to week football and still ultimately wanting to win those games.

I want to see changes in these three weeks, but I don’t think you can judge someone’s ability to overhaul a five+ year gameplan based on three in season weeks at the pointy end.
Thought that as I was writing it. I can dream. Fair enough.

And you are right, it's been very civil on the boards, all things considered.
 

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sdb4884

Norm Smith Medallist
Oct 3, 2004
9,933
1,102
Perth
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
Man Utd, Perth Glory.
Collingwood are a lot closer to a flag then we are, that might sound strange given we are still in the 8 but they have a termandous amount of upside, moving Buckley on seems to have helped, moving on from a tired old gameplan. Not saying Harvey is their guy going forward but they are on a much better path.

We're stuck in a rot, I think it's taken too much time to dawn on Simmo that this group is at the end of the road and keeping the same gameplan hasn't helped either. We need to make some trades, retire either or both Hurn and Kennedy. Although if we are rebuilding keeping one would help somewhat. Offer up Gov with a financial package to help the team keep the cap manageable, Brander possibly and maybe Waterman. Midfield pace, a marking tough small defender and a good solid second ruck are the needs.

On SM-G981B using BigFooty.com mobile app
 
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WCE_phil

Brownlow Medallist
Nov 14, 2009
10,085
9,619
perth
AFL Club
West Coast
If we consider that we are going down the path of a rebuild it may actually be worth keeping Kennedy and Hurn on for another year unless the club sees this as some amazing super draft and are happy taking picks in the 60's and 70's.

With age, retirements and dead wood you still need to keep a semblance of structure and leadership. I would much rather have 8 go off the list this year and 8 next year than 10 and 6 etc.
 

Guest1

Rookie
Jul 8, 2010
40
41
AFL Club
West Coast
Everybody dial it back.

The discussion has actually been pretty good given the nature of yesterday’s loss and the growing sentiment particularly over the last few weeks.

Leave the personal attacks at the door.
With all due respect, you've just closed a thread and renamed it, "I'm not open to anybody else's opinion." Just lock the thread and post the reason why you've locked it in the comments. No need to abuse your mod power and rename the thread topic to something that fits in with your view, especially when the person whose thread you locked doesn't have a right of reply.

You also need to leave your personal attacks behind. You did take pot shots at other posters after our win against Port Adelaide and it looks like it's happening here again. I would like for our mods to be as objective as they can be. We are all hurting and this doesn't help.


Have another go at it mate, I didn’t get it the first few times.

Coaching chat goes in the coaching thread. Votes go in the votes thread. Previews go in the preview thread. I’ll let you figure out where the non Eagles discussion goes, but the answer might surprise you.

While we’re at it, if the title of a thread is enough to articulate the entirety of your thoughts on a topic, you’ve probably not thought hard enough about that topic.

Share your thoughts on the coach in here, as you can see in the title above it is the coaching thread!
I feel like this thread topic covers what the coaches need to change with regards to off field training and the gameplan and strategy they need to adopt to win games. The poster you've quoted BlueandGoldforever wants to discuss the suitability of the current personnel we have in place, debate who else we might want to bring it who might better fill our need, and how to go about getting those coaches into our organisation. I know that I am also interested in hearing other people's thoughts on these topics. This is an important discussion and should not be buried in a thread that's over 100 pages long now.
 

bzparkes

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2006
14,920
14,058
Brisbane
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East Fremantle
With all due respect, you've just closed a thread and renamed it, "I'm not open to anybody else's opinion." Just lock the thread and post the reason why you've locked it in the comments. No need to abuse your mod power and rename the thread topic to something that fits in with your view, especially when the person whose thread you locked doesn't have a right of reply.
The poster who created that thread has acted infantile and abused, or made fun of, anyone with a slightly different opinion.

According to that poster I'm Simmo's mother simply because I don't want Clarkson as a coach...
 

Tyberious Funk

Club Legend
May 13, 2005
2,247
1,092
Melbourne
AFL Club
West Coast
The cattle just aren't at the level they should be... a few hard truths to consider (and I'm open to alternative arguments);

1. Luke Shuey isn't an A-grader. He's capable of A-grade output, like his Norm Smith performance, but he's never won an All-Australian and it's for a pretty fair reason. Everyone expects him to be like Duty, Bont or Dangerfield... but he just isn't.

2. Gaff wasn't worth the effort to retain. Excellent player, hard worker and multiple AA. But he doesn't hurt the opposition anywhere near enough. We don't know what he was offered to stay, but the North Melbourne offer was reportedly pretty significant so I'm assuming our offer to retain him was at least in the same ballpark.

3. Despite everyone saying that Kennedy looks as good as ever... he doesn't.

4. Despite flashes of brilliance, Yeo hasn't reached the Fyfe-like levels that everyone was hoping for.

5. Jack Darling goes missing waaay too often for a player of his ability. How often does he have a brilliant burst, only to disappear for the rest of the game? How often does he have horror runs of form?

6. Tim Kelly wasn't worth what we traded. Again, a good player... but the reality is that he played two seasons in Geelong, with Ablett, Selwood and Dangerfield ahead of him. He was definitely worth pursuing, but at what cost?

I could go on, but basically the gist of my point is that most of our "A-graders" aren't really A-graders... they're either players in the twilight of their career, players that are way too inconsistent, or players that haven't quite lived up to their potential. We lack any real superstars, many of our A-graders are really B-graders and many of our B-graders are really C-graders. It's worrying that the bright hopes in our midfield are Connor West, a mid-season draftee and Luke Edwards who was drafted at pick 57.

We've traded and drafted on the basis that we're still in the premiership window, and the players haven't delivered accordingly. At the very least, someone has drastically over-estimated the quality of our list. And the development of our youngsters has been pretty poor, maybe with the exception of Liam Ryan (and to a lesser extent, Willie Rioli) and maybe Harry Edwards who looks like a prospect. Maybe you could make a case for Oscar Allen... but he was highly rated right from the start.

Unless something drastic happens, I can see next year being pretty dark. Simpson will probably get blamed, and his head will be the chopping block. If we see a clear-out of some of the Assistants and development coaches, there may be some hope.
 

Guest1

Rookie
Jul 8, 2010
40
41
AFL Club
West Coast
The poster who created that thread has acted infantile and abused, or made fun of, anyone with a slightly different opinion.

According to that poster I'm Simmo's mother simply because I don't want Clarkson as a coach...
Even if the poster acted in this way, should the thread title be changed to humiliate him/her without giving them a right of reply? The mod has asked that we keep personal attacks outside but it reads like a personal attack to me. My previous post has suggested a more objective way of moderating/locking that thread.

Mods do need to be (and need to be perceived to be) impartial and objective.
 

southcoast

Club Legend
Sep 25, 2006
2,106
2,606
southcoast
AFL Club
West Coast
The cattle just aren't at the level they should be... a few hard truths to consider (and I'm open to alternative arguments);

1. Luke Shuey isn't an A-grader. He's capable of A-grade output, like his Norm Smith performance, but he's never won an All-Australian and it's for a pretty fair reason. Everyone expects him to be like Duty, Bont or Dangerfield... but he just isn't.

2. Gaff wasn't worth the effort to retain. Excellent player, hard worker and multiple AA. But he doesn't hurt the opposition anywhere near enough. We don't know what he was offered to stay, but the North Melbourne offer was reportedly pretty significant so I'm assuming our offer to retain him was at least in the same ballpark.

3. Despite everyone saying that Kennedy looks as good as ever... he doesn't.

4. Despite flashes of brilliance, Yeo hasn't reached the Fyfe-like levels that everyone was hoping for.

5. Jack Darling goes missing waaay too often for a player of his ability. How often does he have a brilliant burst, only to disappear for the rest of the game? How often does he have horror runs of form?

6. Tim Kelly wasn't worth what we traded. Again, a good player... but the reality is that he played two seasons in Geelong, with Ablett, Selwood and Dangerfield ahead of him. He was definitely worth pursuing, but at what cost?

I could go on, but basically the gist of my point is that most of our "A-graders" aren't really A-graders... they're either players in the twilight of their career, players that are way too inconsistent, or players that haven't quite lived up to their potential. We lack any real superstars, many of our A-graders are really B-graders and many of our B-graders are really C-graders. It's worrying that the bright hopes in our midfield are Connor West, a mid-season draftee and Luke Edwards who was drafted at pick 57.

We've traded and drafted on the basis that we're still in the premiership window, and the players haven't delivered accordingly. At the very least, someone has drastically over-estimated the quality of our list. And the development of our youngsters has been pretty poor, maybe with the exception of Liam Ryan (and to a lesser extent, Willie Rioli) and maybe Harry Edwards who looks like a prospect. Maybe you could make a case for Oscar Allen but he was highly rated right from the start.

Unless something drastic happens, I can see next year being pretty dark. Simpson will probably get blamed, and his head will be the chopping block. If we see a clear-out of some of the Assistants and development coaches, there may be some hope.
Reckon McGovern got missed in the list of ‘under performing/over rated’ players. If he were on a performance based contract this year he would be eligible for job seeker. Seems to be getting an easy ride from club - needs to be potted more
 

bzparkes

Brownlow Medallist
May 2, 2006
14,920
14,058
Brisbane
AFL Club
West Coast
Other Teams
East Fremantle
Even if the poster acted in this way, should the thread title be changed to humiliate him/her without giving them a right of reply? The mod has asked that we keep personal attacks outside but it reads like a personal attack to me. My previous post has suggested a more objective way of moderating/locking that thread.

Mods do need to be (and need to be perceived to be) impartial and objective.
Don't necessarily disagree but yes, when that poster acts like a pork chop they deserve to be called out for it.

Especially when that poster created the thread to personally attack a number of poster on this board for having a mildly different opinion. I mean, most people somewhat agreed with his stance however the poster clearly isn't capable of critical thinking and simply equates 'not wanting to immediately sack Simmo = Massive fan boi'.

Seriously, he's more than welcome to present his opinion but as soon as he started insulting others for not 100% agreeing with him he needed to be moved on.
 

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