Roast Coaching: Chaplin

[SumTingWong]

Chaplin is not capable of playing on Cloke.
Nor is Rance.
These players will continue to murder us because we have nobody to play on them.

Quite sure this is why we are persisting on playing Astbury and especially Griffiths as key backs. Both are outstanding kicks. Both have the size. For me Rance is suited as a HBF, even a wing such as the role O'Brien has played for Collingwood this year.

 

[Spluff]

Chaplin is not capable of playing on Cloke.
Nor is Rance.
These players will continue to murder us because we have nobody to play on them.

He's capable of filling the space in front of him though, which he didn't do.

 

[Rodney Dangerfield]

I always thought Chaplin was a strange one because at Port he was a loose accumulating type defender really.
I think Griffiths being out pointed so easily in round one was a bit of a concern for us.
Hopefully he develops further because he is a nice size.

 

[docko911]

Astbury will be the one if he can stay fit he is the only on with the physique and I'd prefer Griff playing forward. I honestly reckon Chaplin will be forced out of our defence at some stage either this year or next. A backline of Grimes, Batchelor, Rance and Astbury along with Morris and Houli is our best IMO.
Astbury would be used on big forwards, Rance, Grimes and Batchelor can all play tall or medium and can play 3rd tall. Houli and Morris take the small players.

 

[T4P]

Hardwick said we ran out of options for Cloke. What about McGuane? He is physically one of our strongest players, would've been worth a shot on him...

 

[living_in_syd]

Hardwick said we ran out of options for Cloke. What about McGuane? He is physically one of our strongest players, would've been worth a shot on him...

Considering how it panned out I reckon macguane would have stop 2-3 of the wrestling ones. Unfortunately if hard wick had made the move the whole board would have bitching about macguane even tho Cloke might have ended with say 5 instead of 7 perhaps.

If Chaplin cant play gorilla then we are stuffed this year nytime we a team that has one.

 

[theflea]

Why?
Because I'm right?

I didn't say anything against your club, you have a great side....but Chaplin will hurt you in the long run

There is a reason we didn't match his contract

i can understand why you would think that (seeing chaplin play) but that doesnt necessarily mean he cant do it for us. When he did go onto cloke he didnt kick any but until he stays on a big opponent for a full game we will have to see.

 

[El Tigre]

All we had to do was put somebody to guard the dangerous space in front of him (Chaplin could have done that) and the problem was solved. Our zoning was baffling, players were constantly guarding the least dangerous areas.

This.
Not sure why Maric didnt drop back and fill the space, with Vicks taking rucking duties in the forward half. Maric dropping back worked last year, but they seem to pushing him forward this year.

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

Some interesting opinions have come up on this, particularly in the days after the game.

I agree that we needed a better structure and a third man up on the weekend. Cloke was their one and only target really, we could have double-teamed him surely. This is often required for the competition's best forwards, or they will always get off the leash. Must happen next time.

I don't agree that Griffiths and Astbury are the answer short term, or long term. They definitely are not up to it right now, they might be in the future but that is in no way a certainty. So that is not the option. Rance might get beaten by monster forwards but these two would do worse.

Chaplin is not capable of playing on Cloke.
Nor is Rance.
These players will continue to murder us because we have nobody to play on them.

'Capable' is subjective, I would argue no one defender in the comp is capable of beating Trav consistently in 1 on 1s, but there are a few who could make a reasonable fist of it. On our list, this man is undoubtedly Chaplin. Next time, stand Chaplin at Cloke's hip, and leave Rance in the space in front to jump at the ball and spoil it.

chaplin would have needed oxygen after a qtr or so if he played on cloke...get with the program...Rance was the match up, Cloke had a day out, Rance is having a bad run of form and thats it...now they need to fix what we can. Rances form. He is not playing like he was last year and whatever needs addressing should be addressed. The end..FFS, some people go on about shit here, like no other FB in history just had a bad day at the office..thats it...I will back Rance in a re-match any day of the week...he doesnt take to being torn a new one all to lightly....

Well, I don't think so. In the second half Cloke played deep, and didn't run a massive amount. So therefore I think Chap could have gone with him. And if not, its a pretty simply equation, he leaves him for Rance outside the arc and when Cloke plays deep, he picks him up.

Rance was definitely not the match up, and will never be on these mammoth forwards. Core strength and sheer size lack. I love Rancey and think he is a great defender, but this is not his role and we can't expect it of him. He will consisently get beaten in these scenarios until the coaches learn.

 

[Bojangles17]

Chaplain would not have the fitness to run with cloke... Cloke is super fit and Chaplain didnt do a pre-season..... But we did move Chaplain on him just before he got hit in the head..... Personally I would have went the other way and played Grimes. Someone who can read the ball better.

Rance wore Cloke like a glove. The kicking to Cloke was A grade. Rance played the man it was a pretty good effot IMO... ...... What rance needed to do was to play the ball once it was in the Air and get his body at the fall of the ball instead of trying to cover Cloke. Cloke's reach got him every time.

I agree nut rance didnt give him much lattitude cloke was taking great contested grabs, reminded of richo onsong

 

[Ancient Tiger]

He may be in the future but he is so far off the defender carlisle is it's not funny. I do get what you mean but he is a way off.

I disagree. Griffiths could be just as good as Carlisle. The difference between the two is that Carlisle has not had the injury run that Ben has and he has been backed by his coach. Playing with Fletcher has also helped his development. I saw him beaten last year but Hird persisted with him as you do with young KPPs. I wish Dimma showed the same faith in Ben. I thought it was harsh dropping him after one game!

 

[theflea]

I disagree. Griffiths could be just as good as Carlisle. The difference between the two is that Carlisle has not had the injury run that Ben has and he has been backed by his coach. Playing with Fletcher has also helped his development. I saw him beaten last year but Hird persisted with him as you do with young KPPs. I wish Dimma showed the same faith in Ben. I thought it was harsh dropping him after one game!

Nah sorry completely disagree. Carlisle uses his body to out manouver his opponents while still watching the ball and keeping his feet hence he takes a lot of intercept marks. He actually enjoys body on body contact. With griff i just dont think he likes the physical contact that a defender needs to have. He may get better in the future but at the moment i just dont see it.

 

[WATIGE]

Nah sorry completely disagree. Carlisle uses his body to out manouver his opponents while still watching the ball and keeping his feet hence he takes a lot of intercept marks. He actually enjoys body on body contact. With griff i just dont think he likes the physical contact that a defender needs to have. He may get better in the future but at the moment i just dont see it.

Don't think that is quite a fair assessment. Ben was a forward before coming to us and would bet my bottom dollar his success as a foward was a combination of his speed, agility and height - he never had to use his body and therefore is not used to it - maybe I am splitting hairs a bit but I would term it "don't think he is yet competent with the physical contact". Again the double purpose of him playing down back - train him up and he either makes it as a topline backman or at least recieves the training in playing some physical game if he goes back forward.

 

[ShaneDoan]

While it was frustrating to see Rance stuck on Cloke all day when it clearly wasn't worth it, I was hoping for them to throw anyone else on him. Sure Rance is a great defender but Cloke had him covered completely. Dimma wouldn't have left Rance to be killed without the help of Cloke unless he had to so Chaplin just mustn't be 100% ready to keep in pace with spearheads like Cloke just yet.

On the day, I would have given Grimes a shot at Cloke. Has the speed and the arms and the height, just not the strength (which seemed to be lacking for Rance anyway). I feel Grimes has a more stay at home defender brain that might have worked a little better against Cloke than Rance's did. Grimes has a few tricks up his sleeve(s) I reckon.

 

[El Tigre]

Pies did coach well to keep Grimes out of the Clokes area.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Because Chaplin went off after getting collected by Knights

Yes but that was late in the third quarter - at the start of the third, Rance started on Cloke.

 

[Infamy]

Yes but that was late in the third quarter - at the start of the third, Rance started on Cloke.

Yes and Cloke went nuts in the 3rd quarter. Hardwick said that he moved Chaplin onto Cloke in the 3rd and he was doing well until he got taken off after the hit.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

Yes and Cloke went nuts in the 3rd quarter. Hardwick said that he moved Chaplin onto Cloke in the 3rd and he was doing well until he got taken off after the hit.

Agreed. Definitely was a mistake from a coaching perspective switching Rance back to Cloke. The call to put Chaplin back on him came after the damage was done on the scoreboard. Chaplin getting concussed didn't help matters either!

 

[NUFC Tiger]

The problem was if you play on Trav you must play in front. If you sit behind him he will mark it every time. He's just too big. Chaplin should have been the match up from the start and told to hold front position, and Grimes should have been the loose defender instructed to just drift in and effect the spoil. Rance could then have followed Q-Stick around the ground.

Exactly right juss. Cloke is a monster so Chaplin being slightly taller, heavier and more experience should have helped him in spoiling situations. Grimes (or any loose defender) should have been playing 5 metres in front and either cutting them off or spoiling the ball.

Teams double team Jack all the time, not sure why we don't do it against the other teams. Rance is a good defender who wasn't helped by his teammates on the weekend (especially the midfield who let Collingwood pump the ball in). As Dimma said in his post match interview, it was just a bad day out for him - happens to everyone.

 

[NUFC Tiger]

I stand by all of that
He is not a 1 on 1 defender

He was on cloke 2 mins before he took his 2nd head hit in 4 weeks and couldn't come back on

Looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane's baby sister

How does getting hit twice in the head in 4 weeks make him a soft player? If anything, the fact he is getting hurt shows he is putting his body on the line. Both times, he was going up to spoil the ball, not exactly shirking the contest I would have thought.

He also played on Cloke after Cloke kicked his second early in the 2nd quarter and held him well. IMO, it was a mistake of the coaches to give Rance another crack at Cloke at the start of the third quarter.

I'm not saying Chaplin would have won in a 1 vs 1 contest against a white hot Cloke (not many defenders would beat him in that form) but he is a bit heavier, taller and more experienced than Rance and seemed to be a better match up.

You're entitled to your opinion having watched him at Port but your responses seem to be pretty bitter or based purely on his time at Port. He has been quite impressive for us so far despite his limited preseason. IIRC, he hasn't even turned over the ball leading to a opposition score so far - his kicking has seemed pretty confident and accurate from his 4 games so far.

 

[CotchIsKing]

Whilst Rance did get beaten, he did not have a lot of help from up the ground. The ball was coming down far too often without pressure allowing the delivery to suit cloke and continually put Rance and the other defenders under the pump.

The structure needed to adapt both in the midfield and down back. Quality teams do not get 8 goals kicked against without reply. We needed to lock down in the centre and across half back after the 3rd goal. The ball Collingwood were getting across the forward side of the centre circle made defending near impossible. We have to be able to react to this sort of pressure as the very best sides do this to each other every time they play. We have shown an ability to win well when we have the run of the ball and hold firm when it is 50/50 but our ability to tighten up when another team has a run on is my biggest concern and puts us at risk of what happened in round 1 and this week.

Another poster on another thread we don't have anywhere near the best midfield in the league whilst we can get opened up as we did on the weekend. I concur with this view. we have the capability to be that but require much greater effort in pressure acts from a number of our midfield rotation.

 

[tigs2010]

Needed our loose man near Cloke. Don't worry about the other forwards just help out on Cloke. Our loose man just roamed around and was nowhere near as effective as theirs. Astbury will be the one who could very well develop into a good KPD for the monsters. Griff can take the 200cm+ guys like a Tippett etc because he's so tall but he doesn't have that solid body with the strength that Astbury could get to IMO. Our backline could become a horses for courses with Astbury getting the guys who are big and strong but not overly quick like Cloke, Hurley etc. Rance getting more athletic types like Darling, Walker and Buddy with Griffo getting blokes like Tippett or being played as a forward again where he could be our very own monster.

It seems that the coaching staff rate Chappy's disposal highly and want to use him on the rebound and hence not get caught as a deep defender and should probably get the second tall forward and play CHB. Or he plays loose and helps on the Cloke's/Petrie's of the league. My preference for the loose man role is Grimes/Batch though. Great readers of the play. Grimes is a great spoiler 3rd man up while Batch is a great intercept mark. Petterd is solid but I don't think he is great at either of those aspects.

Medium forwards can be covered by mixture of Rance, Grimes and Batch depending on match-ups with Morris getting the best small. Grimes can also take a small if opposition has 2 very good ones. (ie. Freo this week)

Using the 4 weeks just gone with the line ups they have had and my ideal match-ups.

Carlton forwards: Hampson (Astbury) Casboult (Rance) Chappy loose helping those 2 guys. Betts/Yarran* (Morris/Grimes) Garlett (Houli)
*Would have obviously planned for Walker instead of Yarran but Grimes could take either.

St.Kilda forwards: Riewoldt (Rance) Stanley (Chaplin) Meister (Astbury) Milera (Houli) Saad (Grimes) Milne (Morris) Batch loose/helping on Riewoldt by chasing him up the field occasionally.

Doggies: meh.

Pies: Cloke (Astbury) Chaplin coming 3rd man in. Lynch (Batchelor did job on him at WC last year) Fasolo (Rance) Elliot (Morris) Sinclair (Houli) Sidebottom (Grimes)

 

[theflea]

Don't think that is quite a fair assessment. Ben was a forward before coming to us and would bet my bottom dollar his success as a foward was a combination of his speed, agility and height - he never had to use his body and therefore is not used to it - maybe I am splitting hairs a bit but I would term it "don't think he is yet competent with the physical contact". Again the double purpose of him playing down back - train him up and he either makes it as a topline backman or at least recieves the training in playing some physical game if he goes back forward.

I base this assessment on what ive seen of him as a defender. He isnt a wrestle style defender or uses his body to manoever is opponent under the ball. It is just not there imo.

Ps im saying this at the moment and hope this changes in the future.

 

[theflea]

The 1 thing i noticed was rance either allowed TC to take the front position or wanted him too. I felt he needed to change that up, sit in front of him and push back or step back from him and time your leap over him to spoil or mark. Either way it looked like was just assuming the position to get out marked time and again.

 

[Reckoner Tiger]

Just watched On the Coach, the exact issue was raised with Cotchin and he answered that it was simply the player's choice of who would take Chaplin, and that it was decided midweek.

That was, Rance put his hand up for the challenge (we all know how unreliable Rance's decision-making can be), because he wanted to prove himself after not having the best start to the year.

I sat there in disbelief as I heard this. Most stupid and ridiculous thing I've heard so far this season. Letting the player decide...you've got to be bloody joking.

Alex Rance is not Matthew Scarlett. As I've said before, do not want to see this happen again. Step up coaches.