Analysis Coaching discussion 2017

saj_21

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I think Goodwin needa to learn that just having large numbers around our 50 doesn't equal $$

It makes it ******* hard for us to score and doesn't work when half your forwards couldn't get a tackle in a fishing store.
I'd say it's more the players failing at executing his game style, I think at times we get handball happy under pressure and the players press up to high.
 

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Topkent

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I'd say it's more the players failing at executing his game style, I think at times we get handball happy under pressure and the players press up to high.
Well we seem to bomb it long and hope to win the clearance kick back with a high press rather than with pressure inside the 50.
 

saj_21

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Well we seem to bomb it long and hope to win the clearance kick back with a high press rather than with pressure inside the 50.
Definitely agree it needs tweaking but the basis of his game style can set us up for success. As our players develop we will execute the game style better for longer periods. I also like that Goodwin isn't afraid to try things on game day
 

Topkent

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Definitely agree it needs tweaking but the basis of his game style can set us up for success. As our players develop we will execute the game style better for longer periods. I also like that Goodwin isn't afraid to try things on game day
The plan can be a success but I'm not sure we have the right personal to enact it. Pressing that high up the ground makes Hogan redundant because it gives him no space and he's not a particularly good pack mark due to his lack of height.
 

Proper Gander

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The plan can be a success but I'm not sure we have the right personal to enact it. Pressing that high up the ground makes Hogan redundant because it gives him no space and he's not a particularly good pack mark due to his lack of height.
I think this could be at the bottom of it. The plan should theoretically work, and when we are having one of those 'on' games we look good. But either - because it is new we aren't doing it automatically and naturally so it falls apart when things get challenging (which would be good, because you would imagine that with time and drills and boring stuff like that, it will improve) or alternatively that our personnel doesn't have the right composition to execute the plan (less good, because will take changes to the list and further time).
 

Topkent

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I think this could be at the bottom of it. The plan should theoretically work, and when we are having one of those 'on' games we look good. But either - because it is new we aren't doing it automatically and naturally so it falls apart when things get challenging (which would be good, because you would imagine that with time and drills and boring stuff like that, it will improve) or alternatively that our personnel doesn't have the right composition to execute the plan (less good, because will take changes to the list and further time).
Our midfield needs to take a lot of blame as well. Jones Tyson Viney Lewis Trac Oliver. Look beautiful when they get first possession or when it's a dog fight but none of them work back hard in defence for various reasons. They expose our defenders far too often. For mine I'd lose Tyson and Vince out of the side next year and play Dion and another bloke who is willing to pressure more. I still have this nastalgic feel that footy will go back to how I like it but in reality you just needs blokes who wanna tackle and chase and you need to get rid of the ones who don't.
 

Proper Gander

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Our midfield needs to take a lot of blame as well. Jones Tyson Viney Lewis Trac Oliver. Look beautiful when they get first possession or when it's a dog fight but none of them work back hard in defence for various reasons. They expose our defenders far too often. For mine I'd lose Tyson and Vince out of the side next year and play Dion and another bloke who is willing to pressure more. I still have this nastalgic feel that footy will go back to how I like it but in reality you just needs blokes who wanna tackle and chase and you need to get rid of the ones who don't.
I rarely watch AFL 360 anymore because so much of it annoys me, and a fair chunk is devoted to topics outside of AFL like horse racing, charity events etc and I can't be bothered, but when I remember about players night on Tuesdays I tune in because (now that he is playing for Melbourne) I quite like hearing what Jordan has to say.

Anyhoo - a few weeks back when he was forced to explain Melbourne's weirdness post Collingwood disaster, he said something quite interesting. I can't remember it word for word but it was about Melbourne and young players and inconsistency etc. Anyhow, what he was saying was that essentially Melbourne had lots of really talented young players - but all young teams, however talented, had to learn what he learned over the years at Hawthorn which was that professional football is, much of the time, really tedious and repetitive. He was talking about training - not matches - and that becoming a team like Hawthorn was is not just having a gameplan and talent but doing the same repetitive drills over and over again so they become instinct and don't let you down on a bad day etc. He specifically talked about a high pressure tackling game plus a high 'retain possession' gamestyle like Melbourne are developing needing lots of consistent, really tedious practice for it to work every time, so that you can get a win even on an off day.

Okay so none of this really goes to your point about shedding the guys that don't provide pressure. Sorry, I lost track a bit really. I think what I am hoping, and that Jordan Lewis can help with building this culture, is that Melbourne will be able to develop some consistency with their pressure in midfield and elsewhere by drilling it until it is the norm, and doesn't fu** off every time things go a bit wrong or play Norf or whatever.

And yes I would like to see more defensive running too. Most of all what I would like over the preseason is for Hogan, who I think has bags of ability, works out his best role and is used better, rather than dominating now and again when the ball comes in a manner to his liking. He has huge capacity in terms of endurance and can cover a lot of ground. Size and strengthwise I see him as more similar to Roughead than various other forwards, and I think modelling himself on that type of player could really work for him. Also, I think Roughead's type of play is gold for the modern game. A Hogan like that - who can play anywhere needed and get back defensively would make a massive difference.
 

Topkent

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I rarely watch AFL 360 anymore because so much of it annoys me, and a fair chunk is devoted to topics outside of AFL like horse racing, charity events etc and I can't be bothered, but when I remember about players night on Tuesdays I tune in because (now that he is playing for Melbourne) I quite like hearing what Jordan has to say.

Anyhoo - a few weeks back when he was forced to explain Melbourne's weirdness post Collingwood disaster, he said something quite interesting. I can't remember it word for word but it was about Melbourne and young players and inconsistency etc. Anyhow, what he was saying was that essentially Melbourne had lots of really talented young players - but all young teams, however talented, had to learn what he learned over the years at Hawthorn which was that professional football is, much of the time, really tedious and repetitive. He was talking about training - not matches - and that becoming a team like Hawthorn was is not just having a gameplan and talent but doing the same repetitive drills over and over again so they become instinct and don't let you down on a bad day etc. He specifically talked about a high pressure tackling game plus a high 'retain possession' gamestyle like Melbourne are developing needing lots of consistent, really tedious practice for it to work every time, so that you can get a win even on an off day.

Okay so none of this really goes to your point about shedding the guys that don't provide pressure. Sorry, I lost track a bit really. I think what I am hoping, and that Jordan Lewis can help with building this culture, is that Melbourne will be able to develop some consistency with their pressure in midfield and elsewhere by drilling it until it is the norm, and doesn't **** off every time things go a bit wrong or play Norf or whatever.

And yes I would like to see more defensive running too. Most of all what I would like over the preseason is for Hogan, who I think has bags of ability, works out his best role and is used better, rather than dominating now and again when the ball comes in a manner to his liking. He has huge capacity in terms of endurance and can cover a lot of ground. Size and strengthwise I see him as more similar to Roughead than various other forwards, and I think modelling himself on that type of player could really work for him. Also, I think Roughead's type of play is gold for the modern game. A Hogan like that - who can play anywhere needed and get back defensively would make a massive difference.
Yeah I remember Lewis talking about that it's a fair summation, basically saying we need to get to a stage where training becomes boring because they just do what they have to do on and off the track so repetitively it becomes second nature.

I love the roughead comparison and I've been saying it for a while. Hogan looks brilliant when he can get space on his defender and use his natural reading of the ball to take it when others can't ( it's why I like the idea of him as a defender )
Roughy wasn't winning games out of the goal square for them in 13/14/15 he was winning them around the ground and then drifting forward for a mismatch. We just need to use Hogan the same way instead of isolating him deep forward and getting him to body while we dump it long. Tex walker is another who does his best work outside 50
 

VineySwatTeam

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Haven't read through all the posts, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that we really need to transition towards having a higher kick to handball ratio to become less predictable to the oppo. Instead of stacking numbers behind the stoppage and looking to handball our way sideways/backwards into space every time, we should look to spread aggressively from the stoppage sideways & forward of the contest to provide the short kick option, because its much harder to stop. Obviously our field kicking needs to improve big time, and id like to see a specialist ball movement coach come in just to address this. We need to be much smarter about our delivery inside 50 and make sure we're not actively helping the opposition to launch counter attacks from defensive 50.
 

Dark Avenger

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Haven't read through all the posts, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that we really need to transition towards having a higher kick to handball ratio to become less predictable to the oppo. Instead of stacking numbers behind the stoppage and looking to handball our way sideways/backwards into space every time, we should look to spread aggressively from the stoppage sideways & forward of the contest to provide the short kick option, because its much harder to stop. Obviously our field kicking needs to improve big time, and id like to see a specialist ball movement coach come in just to address this. We need to be much smarter about our delivery inside 50 and make sure we're not actively helping the opposition to launch counter attacks from defensive 50.
Yet it seems two of our best kicks are being put on the trade table.
 

djpaulydemon

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Haven't read through all the posts, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that we really need to transition towards having a higher kick to handball ratio to become less predictable to the oppo. Instead of stacking numbers behind the stoppage and looking to handball our way sideways/backwards into space every time, we should look to spread aggressively from the stoppage sideways & forward of the contest to provide the short kick option, because its much harder to stop. Obviously our field kicking needs to improve big time, and id like to see a specialist ball movement coach come in just to address this. We need to be much smarter about our delivery inside 50 and make sure we're not actively helping the opposition to launch counter attacks from defensive 50.
I agree and i think we did this well against St Kilda in the second match. It wasn't our best defensive game or pressure game but we spread really well and as a result our forwards recieved really nice delivery inside 50 to dangerous spaces with space to launch at them.

If we can sort out our hard running outside game with our high press pressure game like we did against Adelaide and the Bulldogs we look good. We leak less goals out the back and through the middle that way too.

Its a more sustainable way to play i think. As others were mentioning the Hawks before i think their dominant teams were the perfect example. They could cut teams up and score from kick ins with precision kicking facilitated by hard spreading, yet they also locked the ball in their 50 with their small forwards and could pile on goals very quickly. We play differently to them obviously but i think having different avenues to goal is essential and hopefully will develop through time.
 

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Topkent

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Yet it seems two of our best kicks are being put on the trade table.
According to Brian Waldron.. relax
Haven't read through all the posts, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to suggest that we really need to transition towards having a higher kick to handball ratio to become less predictable to the oppo. Instead of stacking numbers behind the stoppage and looking to handball our way sideways/backwards into space every time, we should look to spread aggressively from the stoppage sideways & forward of the contest to provide the short kick option, because its much harder to stop. Obviously our field kicking needs to improve big time, and id like to see a specialist ball movement coach come in just to address this. We need to be much smarter about our delivery inside 50 and make sure we're not actively helping the opposition to launch counter attacks from defensive 50.
Yep agree completely. It also gives the forwards more opportunities one on one
 

Topkent

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http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-coach-simon-goodwin-says-he-would-prefer-the-afl-adopt-conferences-in-line-with-us-sports/news-story/3bb0e968bfb7702e43a18e2ef288fc0d


MELBOURNE coach Simon Goodwin has thrown his support behind a conference-styles fixture, where AFL clubs would be divided into three sections.

The fixture would mimic US sports, including basketball, where conferences produce a number of teams to progress through to finals.

In Goodwin’s eyes, creating a conference system would breed more success for more clubs, as well as heighten the anticipation of finals, with a wildcard playoff for the final two spots in the eight.


- Maybe shut up and concentrate on us making finals without a wild card hey champ.
 

PerfectFooty

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http://www.news.com.au/sport/afl/melbourne-coach-simon-goodwin-says-he-would-prefer-the-afl-adopt-conferences-in-line-with-us-sports/news-story/3bb0e968bfb7702e43a18e2ef288fc0d


MELBOURNE coach Simon Goodwin has thrown his support behind a conference-styles fixture, where AFL clubs would be divided into three sections.

The fixture would mimic US sports, including basketball, where conferences produce a number of teams to progress through to finals.

In Goodwin’s eyes, creating a conference system would breed more success for more clubs, as well as heighten the anticipation of finals, with a wildcard playoff for the final two spots in the eight.


- Maybe shut up and concentrate on us making finals without a wild card hey champ.
I never see why people want to change it, the top 8 is fine and doesn't need changing until it's a 20 team competition. i laughed when Eddie wanted something similar with Nab cup wild card, Sorry Simon but i laugh at this too. I don't want to be like other sports, it's ******* fine the way it is!
 

Topkent

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Continuing on the news that Rawlings is in for the Gold Coast job, Damian Barrett reckons he's a candidate and so to is Brendan McCartney, which i would hate to lose
McCartney would be a great fit for them. Has built 2 contested ball sides now and the GC are terrible at it. Reckon the AFL GC will offer him a contract to head up there as coach of some kind. Not the end of the world either we have already gotten the work into the players we need to on the inside and it didn't hurt the dogs after he left.
 

TheCount

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It'd actually be quite good for his coaching aspirations to have more control over a side, a lot of assistants are taking interest in VFL coaching gigs of late
Yeah exactly, Gary Ayres and Andy Collins' names are being thrown around for the GC job because of their impressive credentials with their VFL clubs, so it wouldn't surprise me if that became the new proving ground for an AFL gig, having to show you can steer the ship yourself.
 
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