Analysis Coaching discussion 2017

LeverPuller

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Yeah exactly, Gary Ayres and Andy Collins' names are being thrown around for the GC job because of their impressive credentials with their VFL clubs, so it wouldn't surprise me if that became the new proving ground for an AFL gig, having to show you can steer the ship yourself.
The catch is that the new VFL has a limited selection choice. With the end of the Dev league its expected that VFL sides with the exception of standalones will have around 16 players with the use of the reserve players from the AFL.
 

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TheCount

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The catch is that the new VFL has a limited selection choice. With the end of the Dev league its expected that VFL sides with the exception of standalones will have around 16 players with the use of the reserve players from the AFL.
So they're basically killing off the soul of the comp then ... awesome.

When they canned the reserves from the NEAFL comp up here, it really destroyed the "Day at the footy" feel of it, wasn't a fan.
 

LeverPuller

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So they're basically killing off the soul of the comp then ... awesome.

When they canned the reserves from the NEAFL comp up here, it really destroyed the "Day at the footy" feel of it, wasn't a fan.
I think its partly because a huge number of clubs will be running a VFLW side next year, suspect you will see that instead.
 

Topkent

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Yeah exactly, Gary Ayres and Andy Collins' names are being thrown around for the GC job because of their impressive credentials with their VFL clubs, so it wouldn't surprise me if that became the new proving ground for an AFL gig, having to show you can steer the ship yourself.
I can't believe more coaches don't do it that way as well plus it's a great chance for experience.
 

TheCount

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AFL should scrap the VFL, bring back the VFA and have a nationwide reserves comp.
100% agree on the Reserves comp, it's obviously a matter of cost, but I just can't see how bastardising 4 state league comps for a "good enough" 2nd tier, is better than a full Reserves competition.
 

Pedantic

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Maybe Rawlings is just desperate to be involved in finals in any capacity and thinks Casey are a safer bet.

1996 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, didn't play
1997 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (15th)
1998 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (13th)
1999 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2000 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, played in elim final victory!
2001 (Hawthorn) -- made finals in 6th, played in elim final and semi final victories!
2002 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (10th)
2003 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2004 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (14th)
2005 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (9th)
2006 (North) -- missed finals (14th) [end of playing career]
2007 (Richmond) -- missed finals (16th) [beginning of coaching career]
2008 (Richmond) -- missed finals (9th) [also senior coach at Coburg, made finals in 6th but lost first week]
2009 (Richmond) -- missed finals (15th) [caretaker senior coach for 11 games]
2010 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (13th)
2011 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (15th)
2012 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (16th)
2013 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2014 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2015 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (13th)
2016 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (11th)
2017 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (9th)
 

TheCount

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Maybe Rawlings is just desperate to be involved in finals in any capacity and thinks Casey are a safer bet.

1996 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, didn't play
1997 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (15th)
1998 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (13th)
1999 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2000 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, played in elim final victory!
2001 (Hawthorn) -- made finals in 6th, played in elim final and semi final victories!
2002 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (10th)
2003 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2004 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (14th)
2005 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (9th)
2006 (North) -- missed finals (14th) [end of playing career]
2007 (Richmond) -- missed finals (16th) [beginning of coaching career]
2008 (Richmond) -- missed finals (9th) [also senior coach at Coburg, made finals in 6th but lost first week]
2009 (Richmond) -- missed finals (15th) [caretaker senior coach for 11 games]
2010 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (13th)
2011 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (15th)
2012 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (16th)
2013 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2014 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2015 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (13th)
2016 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (11th)
2017 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (9th)
Jesus ... the bloke must have a standing reservation on a holiday house on the Gold Coast every September with a history like that.
 

LeverPuller

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100% agree on the Reserves comp, it's obviously a matter of cost, but I just can't see how bastardising 4 state league comps for a "good enough" 2nd tier, is better than a full Reserves competition.
I don't like what is happening to the VFL but apart from that I don't mind the current setup.

- NEAFL has pulled the top clubs from everywhere to compete with the AFL reserves.
- SANFL and WAFL have maintained their integrity.

The problem is that AFL Vic won't provide support to struggling VFL sides. The Dolphins were booted over a $10k debt, now North Ballarat is on the block. Multiple VFA clubs have been trashed to the point of being non-viable - would Preston or Springvale survive if forced back now?

I think operating in their current bounds is the best chance for the VFL. Thus:

- 5 direct reserve sides (Geelong, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscray, Richmond)
- 3 near-direct sides (Box Hill, Casey, Northern)
- 2 reserve arrangements sides (Werribee, Sandy)
- 4 standalone (Port, Willy, Frankston, Coburg)

Should be the model going forward. NB to go back to the Ballarat league which has been on the table anyway.
 

lose

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I don't like what is happening to the VFL but apart from that I don't mind the current setup.

- NEAFL has pulled the top clubs from everywhere to compete with the AFL reserves.
- SANFL and WAFL have maintained their integrity.

The problem is that AFL Vic won't provide support to struggling VFL sides. The Dolphins were booted over a $10k debt, now North Ballarat is on the block. Multiple VFA clubs have been trashed to the point of being non-viable - would Preston or Springvale survive if forced back now?

I think operating in their current bounds is the best chance for the VFL. Thus:

- 5 direct reserve sides (Geelong, Collingwood, Essendon, Footscray, Richmond)
- 3 near-direct sides (Box Hill, Casey, Northern)
- 2 reserve arrangements sides (Werribee, Sandy)
- 4 standalone (Port, Willy, Frankston, Coburg)

Should be the model going forward. NB to go back to the Ballarat league which has been on the table anyway.
NB are already back in the Ballarat league, have been for over 5 yrs


On iPhone using BigFooty.com mobile app
 

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Topkent

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
 

dee_mac

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
I like the way we are trying to play and when it's worked it has worked well. The issue has been consistency, not just week to week but within games too. I think the game style has shifted significantly since Goodwin took the helm and I think the results have been more to do with adjusting in year one of Goodwins game plan rather than the personnel we have. I'd expect us to be better again with it next year. I'd persist with the attacking nature for another year before revising the game plan/ recruitment.
 

TheCount

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
I dont think so. I think some of our early season games showed that we're capable of playing the 100-80 game style just fine. We obviously didn't sustain it, but i think that was more to do with the injuries/fatigue than anything else. Likewise the games we lost seemed like more of an effort and head space issue more so than the game plan not stacking up.
 

Topkent

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I like the way we are trying to play and when it's worked it has worked well. The issue has been consistency, not just week to week but within games too. I think the game style has shifted significantly since Goodwin took the helm and I think the results have been more to do with adjusting in year one of Goodwins game plan rather than the personnel we have. I'd expect us to be better again with it next year. I'd persist with the attacking nature for another year before revising the game plan/ recruitment.
I dont think so. I think some of our early season games showed that we're capable of playing the 100-80 game style just fine. We obviously didn't sustain it, but i think that was more to do with the injuries/fatigue than anything else. Likewise the games we lost seemed like more of an effort and head space issue more so than the game plan not stacking up.
OK maybe a better way to frame it would be that I know we can play it and it has proven to be successful, but with the players we have will we ever be able to win 16-20 games in a year with or do we need to switch up styles to something that suits us. Richmond went from a precision kicking side to a long kicking side who pressures and went from 13th to 1st.
 

schmuttt

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
Play like we did in round 1 which was more Sydney like than any other game we played all year. Dominate stoppages and control the ball. We had 56 more kicks than handballs that day fwiw
 

PerfectFooty

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
The bulldogs stock piled inside mids, and then once bevo came in went to a faster game style. Not fussed, i've seen what we can do and am confident we can play fast footy with grunt players
 

Topkent

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The bulldogs stock piled inside mids, and then once bevo came in went to a faster game style. Not fussed, i've seen what we can do and am confident we can play fast footy with grunt players
The speed thing was a myth though. They were a low scoring side who defended brilliantly. I think everyone forget that before the finals series everyone was questioning how they would score enough to win.
Their game style revolved around manic handballs on the inside which sucked the opposition into the contest before it eventually go to the outside, The other team would kick it long to Boyd + Wood who would intercept mark then rebound. The greatest contested ball differential ever. This year teams sat off them an played more one on one. The key thing for both Richmond and WB was their forward pressure which never allowed their defense to be exposed. That's why Watts is gone because he exposes our defence time and time again
 

saj_21

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So question,
Do we need to radically change our game style? We want to be a fast ball moving high scoring team yet we have recruited a bunch of grunt inside ball winners. Should we be changing our game style to reflect the Sydney game plan more which is stoppage based 1 on 1 defending and winning 80-60 rather than 100-80?

We wanna play like bombers yet our recruiting says we can't? Thoughts?
I think we just need to get better at our current game style, bad performances this year weren't due to a bad game plan just bad execution of the way we want to play......i think the doggies game during the middle of the season our pressure was immense, small mobile forward line, ball handling superb that's how we want to see the dees playing week in week out.

But yes the game plan needs some tweaking, every coach including Hardwick needs to adapt year to year.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Maybe Rawlings is just desperate to be involved in finals in any capacity and thinks Casey are a safer bet.

1996 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, didn't play
1997 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (15th)
1998 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (13th)
1999 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2000 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, played in elim final victory!
2001 (Hawthorn) -- made finals in 6th, played in elim final and semi final victories!
2002 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (10th)
2003 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2004 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (14th)
2005 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (9th)
2006 (North) -- missed finals (14th) [end of playing career]
2007 (Richmond) -- missed finals (16th) [beginning of coaching career]
2008 (Richmond) -- missed finals (9th) [also senior coach at Coburg, made finals in 6th but lost first week]
2009 (Richmond) -- missed finals (15th) [caretaker senior coach for 11 games]
2010 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (13th)
2011 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (15th)
2012 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (16th)
2013 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2014 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2015 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (13th)
2016 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (11th)
2017 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (9th)
What the fu**
 

Ando727

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Maybe Rawlings is just desperate to be involved in finals in any capacity and thinks Casey are a safer bet.
1996 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, didn't play
1997 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (15th)
1998 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (13th)
1999 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2000 (Hawthorn) -- scraped into finals in 8th, played in elim final victory!
2001 (Hawthorn) -- made finals in 6th, played in elim final and semi final victories!
2002 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (10th)
2003 (Hawthorn) -- missed finals (9th)
2004 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (14th)
2005 (Bulldogs) -- missed finals (9th)
2006 (North) -- missed finals (14th) [end of playing career]
2007 (Richmond) -- missed finals (16th) [beginning of coaching career]
2008 (Richmond) -- missed finals (9th) [also senior coach at Coburg, made finals in 6th but lost first week]
2009 (Richmond) -- missed finals (15th) [caretaker senior coach for 11 games]
2010 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (13th)
2011 (Brisbane) -- missed finals (15th)
2012 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (16th)
2013 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2014 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (17th)
2015 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (13th)
2016 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (11th)
2017 (Melbourne) -- missed finals (9th)
What the ****
It takes a lot of skill and planning to avoid success like that. Underrated.
 

Marc_Remillard

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I still stand by my comments in this thread, just so very Melbourne. It's pretty hard watching us throw games so easily

Edit: This is a reverse psychology type of post
 
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