Roast Coaching discussion thread

[64 reasons]

Your right, you should always stick with club legends

James Hird, Justin Leppitsh, Michael Voss, Brett Ratten all took their sides to premiership glory

Those coaches who came from outside their traditional clubs like Sheedy, Matthews, Malthouse were all spuds

Hird - never, cheat.
Leppitsh - lets see after next week.
Ratten - was shafted before his time, didnt have the cattle, crap administration but then Malthouse sucked worse,
Voss - I'd give him a crack at the D's over Goodwin, he would not sit back and take umpires rubbish because he'd be passionate and hard as nails.

 

[wowlace]

Does anyone find it odd that we are clearly "better" than we were under Neeld, but we don't really win more games and our percentage is still extremely low? Is our optimism based in hope or real prospects? I don't know what to think about this club anymore. The scary part is how quickly I can get over a loss. I think whatever haunts the locker rooms at Melbourne also haunts the fanbase. The decline of Melbourne is one of the weirdest things to happen in sport.

Yep. I'm starting to wonder if we really are improving. We are going to be bottom 4 again. It's all relative, yeah we are improving, but other teams are improving faster than we are. So in the end we are still bottom 4 and shit. I can't really get behind the so called "improvement" when the net result is exactly the same.

The MFC needs to be better than every other team, not just better than the MFC team from the previous year.

 

[stabler]

Mentally weak, vanilla, apathetic, selfish, hopeless bunch of d-grade amateur spuds. Also known as the Melbourne demons.

 

[00Stinger]

I don't think he was saying that. Just frustrated that we're still not getting the basics right, still not winning the games we should be winning, etc.

We all know we're vastly improved on a couple of years ago, but still along way from where we need to be. That's not Roos's fault, and I don't think anyone seriously wants him out, but fmd it's getting old.

Sorry I quoted his wrong comment. This is the one I meant to quote

**** you Roos. I'm sick of your negative coaching, your stupid selections, and you blaming the players for your **** ups. Go and enjoy Hawaii now. It's waiting for you. Don't close the door.

 

[Demon 16]

Am I the only one around here that didnt think the manner of that loss was a complete disaster?

I was certainly really disappointed we didnt get up, but I thought we were unlucky not the get the result.

The things we did wrong were all very fixable, and I can see we are consistently improving (slowly), and have a much stronger game plan than we have for 6+ years.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

I dunno I think we are on the cusp of becoming better than a bottom 4 side, but for the first time in as long as I can remember there isnt teams at the bottom just tanking for picks, so every single game is hard

We go in into the season assuming we will beat Brisbane WB Stkilda GWS etc without thinking that they are improving as well, fact is our 4 wins this year have been better than our 4 wins last year

That's a great point.

For me, it's not about wins now - it's about getting our list in to a position where theres a point of difference which will help us jump to the top four.

I feel us, GC and the Bulldogs are the only teams with this type of list in the middle bracket ( Port dont really count)

The Saints, Bombers, Blues, Lions, Cats are lacking youth but have stronger spreads of senior players.

 

[Demon 16]

That's a great point.

For me, it's not about wins now - it's about getting our list in to a position where theres a point of difference which will help us jump to the top four.

I feel us, GC and the Bulldogs are the only teams with this type of list in the middle bracket ( Port dont really count)

The Saints, Bombers, Blues, Lions, Cats are lacking youth but have stronger spreads of senior players.

The Saints are playing a pretty good brand of footy, all things considered - and they have a few good kids coming through.

I reckon they're ahead of the others, but they certainly need more elite young talent before they start moving upwards.

 

[Topkent]

That's a great point.

For me, it's not about wins now - it's about getting our list in to a position where theres a point of difference which will help us jump to the top four.

I feel us, GC and the Bulldogs are the only teams with this type of list in the middle bracket ( Port dont really count)

The Saints, Bombers, Blues, Lions, Cats are lacking youth but have stronger spreads of senior players.

This is the critical part mate, we could push up the ladder like Essendon, North and Carlton and become a middle side without any foundation or we can continue working on a style which we are which will help us win finals

I posted this in the Good bad and Ugly thread and I feel its relevant

Can I also point out
Hogan, Dawes, JKH, Stretch, ANB, Harmes, Tyson, Mcdonald ( first 3 quarters ), Brayshaw, Howe all played poor to under average games and we still nearly won

If even a couple of those blokes play well we have essendon
Im not too worried

 

[MarcMaverick]

That's a great point.

For me, it's not about wins now - it's about getting our list in to a position where theres a point of difference which will help us jump to the top four.

I feel us, GC and the Bulldogs are the only teams with this type of list in the middle bracket ( Port dont really count)

The Saints, Bombers, Blues, Lions, Cats are lacking youth but have stronger spreads of senior players.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA NO!

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

Sorry I quoted his wrong comment. This is the one I meant to quote

Fair enough, though I suspect that the thread was sparked in a moment of anger that was quickly... or err... somewhat(?) regretted.

The Saints are playing a pretty good brand of footy, all things considered - and they have a few good kids coming through.

I reckon they're ahead of the others, but they certainly need more elite young talent before they start moving upwards.

I think the key point of difference for the Saints has been their discipline to stick to a game plan, structures, etc and consistent effort. I'm not sure if that's the input of their senior players, the coach, or whatever, but if we had that we'd probably be sitting 7-7 with games still to come against Brisbane, Carlton, North, Bulldogs, GWS and a sneaky chance of playing finals.

 

[deeco]

We're still a good 2-3 solid drafts away ourselves apparently from a list capable of making a flag run. It's an interesting thing, would you rather do a Port or lesser extent Dogs/Saints by rocketing up the ladder and get those wins, end up not having enough high end talent to win a premiership... Or you do it slow and steady, get all the right pieces, blood a billion kids for solid depth("CRAZY ROOSY AND HIS SELECTION PROBLEMS") and slowly toil away until you have the right list to actually win something?

Obviously testing the patience of our supporter base without making great leaps and bounds on the ladder. If they're making sure when we do finally start going up, we aren't going to end up like Norf, Port etc making finals for a few years then dropping out of contention without getting near a flag.

Personally I'd cop as many bottom 4 finishes it takes the next 2-3 seasons if it means we finally can crack another flag.

 

[wowlace]

We're still a good 2-3 solid drafts away ourselves apparently from a list capable of making a flag run. It's an interesting thing, would you rather do a Port or lesser extent Dogs/Saints by rocketing up the ladder and get those wins, end up not having enough high end talent to win a premiership... Or you do it slow and steady, get all the right pieces, blood a billion kids for solid depth("CRAZY ROOSY AND HIS SELECTION PROBLEMS") and slowly toil away until you have the right list to actually win something?

Obviously testing the patience of our supporter base without making great leaps and bounds on the ladder. If they're making sure when we do finally start going up, we aren't going to end up like Norf, Port etc making finals for a few years then dropping out of contention without getting near a flag.

Personally I'd cop as many bottom 4 finishes it takes the next 2-3 seasons if it means we finally can crack another flag.

If it was that easy we'd be going B2B right now. Surely we have had enough bottom four finishes over the last 10 years? Pretty sure we were counting our flags back in 2010.

 

[CM Sean]

I don't know how we're going to do it. But we NEED to make finals next year. Even if we get eliminated in the first game. We NEED to get there.

 

[Topkent]

I don't know how we're going to do it. But we NEED to make finals next year. Even if we get eliminated in the first game. We NEED to get there.

No we dont

 

[Demon 16]

I think the key point of difference for the Saints has been their discipline to stick to a game plan, structures, etc and consistent effort. I'm not sure if that's the input of their senior players, the coach, or whatever, but if we had that we'd probably be sitting 7-7 with games still to come against Brisbane, Carlton, North, Bulldogs, GWS and a sneaky chance of playing finals.

Spot on. That's what I was trying to get at when I mentioned their 'brand'.

They are being very well coached, and if they jag a couple more really talented midfielders in the coming periods, then they'll have completed one of the best rebuilds I've seen to be honest.

 

[deeco]

If it was that easy we'd be going B2B right now. Surely we have had enough bottom four finishes over the last 10 years? Pretty sure we were counting our flags back in 2010.

Look at the Dogs/St Kilda's lists though, they've still got their old champions about, we got Neeld'd. If we overlook the fact that the best 20+ players in the draft all ended up at GWS/GC during that time, we drafted poorly. The Toump obviously hasn't come on as we'd all like, but since that Tyson/Salem draft we've taken the right players (god willing Petracca doesn't get injured)

From the looks of it Salem is going to be an absolute jet, Gawn has come on finally after a preseason, Brayshaw.... Tyson finally getting back to it, ANB looks like a find, Kent, Jones, Hogan, Stretch will come on, TMac. Add in 2-3 ELITE top end players to that in the next few years, or get some wins on the board and get a 10-20 pick and top out mid-table before we go back down. I know which one I'd choose.

 

[wowlace]

Look at the Dogs/St Kilda's lists though, they've still got their old champions about, we got Neeld'd. If we overlook the fact that the best 20+ players in the draft all ended up at GWS/GC during that time, we drafted poorly. The Toump obviously hasn't come on as we'd all like, but since that Tyson/Salem draft we've taken the right players (god willing Petracca doesn't get injured)

From the looks of it Salem is going to be an absolute jet, Gawn has come on finally after a preseason, Brayshaw.... Tyson finally getting back to it, ANB looks like a find, Kent, Jones, Hogan, Stretch will come on, TMac. Add in 2-3 ELITE top end players to that in the next few years, or get some wins on the board and get a 10-20 pick and top out mid-table before we go back down. I know which one I'd choose.

When I look at the Dogs and Saints I just see better teams. I don't care about age distribution of the list or any of that bullshit that people talk about. I look at us and just see excuses. Plain and simple. The MFC mantra has always been look to the future, plenty of people on this bard have adopted it. The future is now and it is bleak, we have been shit for 10 years.

 

[Topkent]

Our senior core is still the problem, Roos has done a brilliant job of patching up the mistakes but we really need the kids to step up and take control

Jones and Vince have been outstanding, Dunn and Cross good as well as Garlett and Garland

Jamar, Dawes, Lumumba have been poor


Look at GC list, they have brilliant talent everywhere but they dont have the senior core and are on the bottom of the ladder
Until we get a core of players who play well week in week out we wont win games

We need Howe, Watts, Mcdonald, Toumpas, Tyson and everyone in that group to play well every week

 

[deeco]

When I look at the Dogs and Saints I just see better teams. I don't care about age distribution of the list or any of that bullshit that people talk about. I look at us and just see excuses. Plain and simple. The MFC mantra has always been look to the future, plenty of people on this bard have adopted it. The future is now and it is bleak, we have been shit for 10 years.

Nick Riewoldt kicked 4.2 and Montagna was probably their best midfielder, Newnes and Steven too, all more mature players.
Jesse Hogan kicked 5.1, Toumpas(not trying to suck his dick 26+2'd ,) Tyson, Gawn and TMac amongst our best and we lost by a kick.

Dogs game showed what we can do if we all put in, return game won't be as pretty.

We've had to import Vince, Cross, H to try make up for our lack of leadership after Neeld gutted our list, the Dogs and Saints already had it from their previous runs up the ladder. Sure you're pissed off we've been shit, so is everyone who's followed this club since '64 on. Other clubs have been better run for the past 10 years isn't an excuse, its the truth, and we can't do anything about it now.

 

[Berny21]

We are missing decent players between 23-26 years of age. That should be their prime and we dont have anyone

 

[schmuttt]

When I look at the Dogs and Saints I just see better teams. I don't care about age distribution of the list or any of that bullshit that people talk about. I look at us and just see excuses. Plain and simple. The MFC mantra has always been look to the future, plenty of people on this bard have adopted it. The future is now and it is bleak, we have been shit for 10 years.

Dogs have an exceptional young group, the Saints are a bit different in that their young guns are a couple years behind the Dogs and they still rely heavily on Riewoldt/Montagna. Saturday was very disappointing but cmon guys, we beat the Dogs comfortably and lost to the Saints in something I'm sure we will never see happen again to this playing group, and I think we'll get them at the MCG.

I can understand negativity as we really should have won on Saturday, but don't raise the pitchforks just yet (If we lose to the Lions and Saints then you can go nuts).

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

Spot on. That's what I was trying to get at when I mentioned their 'brand'.

They are being very well coached, and if they jag a couple more really talented midfielders in the coming periods, then they'll have completed one of the best rebuilds I've seen to be honest.

Riewoldt, Dempster, Fisher, Montagna, Geary, Schnieder, Gilbert, Ray are a huge help - a senior core who had a period of sustained success shouldnt be underestimated and has fast tracked their youth.

A couple of quality young mids and they jump up a gear for sure.

Our leaders didnt even know how to play structured team footy when Roos arrived.

 

[ThePuppetMaster]

When I look at the Dogs and Saints I just see better teams. I don't care about age distribution of the list or any of that bullshit that people talk about. I look at us and just see excuses. Plain and simple. The MFC mantra has always been look to the future, plenty of people on this bard have adopted it. The future is now and it is bleak, we have been shit for 10 years.

And what does that get now? Not a thing.

They are marginally better teams in a huge group of teams vying for similar spots, hooray for them.

I think the good clubs have shown that you need to get up and stay up to win a flag - we need to build to sustained success not sustained mediocrity.

 

[Demon 16]

Riewoldt, Dempster, Fisher, Montagna, Geary, Schnieder, Gilbert, Ray are a huge help - a senior core who had a period of sustained success shouldnt be underestimated and has fast tracked their youth.

A couple of quality young mids and they jump up a gear for sure.

Our leaders didnt even know how to play structured team footy when Roos arrived.

Reiwoldt and Montagna havnt missed a beat. They've also got Armitage, Newnes and Steven doing some pretty good stuff through the middle.

You're right, any senior players we kept, were coached into being a rabble anyway.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

And what does that get now? Not a thing.

They are marginally better teams in a huge group of teams vying for similar spots, hooray for them.

I think the good clubs have shown that you need to get up and stay up to win a flag - we need to build to sustained success not sustained mediocrity.

Not disagreeing with you, but I'm not sure how you can imply that those other teams are going about it the wrong way and us that right way (maybe) simply because it is taking us longer to come on. What exactly is it about not turning things around quickly that breeds sustained competitiveness?