Roast Coaching discussion thread

[Dez!]

Should we draft someone that will go the knuckle on Roos? He should also fly the flag on Roos? Is that what we should do?

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Should we draft someone that will go the knuckle on Roos? He should also fly the flag on Roos? Is that what we should do?

Dez do you sit around waiting for me to post something? That is sad.

 

[Dez!]

Dez do you sit around waiting for me to post something? That is sad.

Totally, that's what I do.

Why won't you love me?

You complete me.

 

[Tempy Tiger]

Totally, that's what I do.

Why won't you love me?

You complete me.

Because you are too old and bitter. Sorry :-(

 

[TheDarkDwarf]

Totally, that's what I do.

Why won't you love me?

You complete me.

You had me at totally.

 

[Topkent]

Obviously "sack the coach" is a complete overreaction.

However, the most bitterly disappointing thing for me is the pathetic skill errors, dumb mistakes and easy goals we cough up. How many times do we handball half a metre to a stationary (read spectating) target? How many times when we have a player about to kick the ball do we have no-one leading/demanding the football? Instead we have a bunch of crabs who meekly shuffle sideways into space.

These symptoms do pre-date PR but I was hoping he would have the footy nous to eradicate these basic ills.

Win, lose or draw - I want us to be team that is well drilled, hard to score against and awake. I would've been wrapt if I were a Saints fan yesterday.

They got infront with 20 seconds to go... how could you possibly be wrapped by their effort yet ashamed at ours

 

[Johnny Karate]

They got infront with 20 seconds to go... how could you possibly be wrapped by their effort yet ashamed at ours

I'm not sure where you got the notion that I'm ashamed at our effort?

On the contrary I'm extremely frustrated that all of our hard work and effort is often pissed up against the wall by our inefficient use of the football and generally dumb play.

We aren't lazy. We're dumb.

 

[demondavey]

Sunday's loss was not the fault of Paul Roos. When you are 4 points up and you are 24-25 minutes gone in the final quarter, the leaders of our team (Jones & Vince in particular) should have done the following;

• Understood that there was very little time to play
• Be watching the clock in such a close game - having an awareness of the situation
• Know that with being 4 points in front that defence is a huge part of holding that lead with minimal time remaining
• Pushed players back! If there are 6 defenders, then make that 9 defenders. Gaining possession of the ball is the most critical thing.
• Gain possession then you can slow the game down.

With regards to Paul Roos? I think that he has had quite a lot to say regarding the previous administration and it's failings. It's time to let that go. If players are to used to the 'old ways' and can't adapt to the 'new ways' then they simply need to go. No other choice. If after 1.5 seasons under Roos they don't adapt, or revert to the old, then it's time to go. A significant number of players were turned over last year, expect the same this year. The problem with Melbourne is that we need to make progress from last year, and we need to have a blueprint for next year that will push us close to the finals. The number one concern is Jesse Hogan. Number one concern. If we lose him, we have gone backwards significantly, and it proves that we can't keep good players nor will be able to attract them. Winning enough games gives him hope.

If West Coast throws a huge deal his way, he may well take it. Kennedy, Hogan, Darling, Le Cras.....It's daunting and its seriously dangerous. The Eagles have an open window, and he may very well complete the puzzle for a premiership tilt. Fremantle may lose Pavlich this year if they win the flag, so Hogan could slot straight in. It's a shame the Western sides are so strong and that is where he from, but we need to pay him major money to keep him, and we need to have a list that can and will play finals.

 

[demondavey]

I'm not sure where you got the notion that I'm ashamed at our effort?

On the contrary I'm extremely frustrated that all of our hard work and effort is often pissed up against the wall by our inefficient use of the football and generally dumb play.

We aren't lazy. We're dumb.

That is really where we are at. Dumb football. Unfortunately playing dumb makes us look like we are lazy, and at times we have been. GWS and Port losses highlight that. But some seriously dumb decisions have cost us and are holding us back. If players on our list can not make good decisions, they need to go. There is enough of a season to go to salvage, so we need to start playing football that will strengthen our chances of playing finals in the next 1-2 years.

 

[demondavey]

We may have lost the game with 41 seconds left to go under Roos, but without the work of Roos we wouldn't be in a position to win in the first place

This is a very good point. I hate the Roos bashing on this, and I hate that he has to cop the flack where the buck stops with him. People have jobs on game day to inform players of things that might be happening off the field, i.e time. You can't blame Roos for that. You always need to crack the knuckles of Bernie Vince and Nathan Jones. Senior experienced players who should be aware to 'flood' in order to maintain possession with such a young team. Paul Roos is not to blame for this at all.

 

[demondavey]

Roos definitely deserves criticism. I hope games like this force him to reevaluate the list and the game plan. I have faith he is smart enough and not too proud to do that.

But ****, I know this thread is mostly a reaction to a difficult loss, and I'm not trying to sugarcoat stuff. We've got to stay the course. Part of the reason we're in the position we are is because of years (decades) of mismanagement. Lose a tight game and sack one of the few people in our organisation that has been to the highest level? **** me dead.

As I say, I'm not implying that Roos is above criticism. But maybe for once as a club we can begin to use games like tonight as a way to galvanise us instead of blow us apart.

I don't know how this can be the fault of Paul Roos?

 

[demondavey]

Confidence is the most important thing in football and it actually optimizes skills.

We have not had any real confidence-in-depth since early 2011 when we pulverized Freo and Adelaide.

The tanking and - worse still - the 186 - are yet to be exorcised.

Tanking really hurt us. And if you ask me, it really is a no brainer with regards to a strategy. Have Geelong ever tanked? Have Hawthorn ever tanked? Have Sydney ever tanked? Have West Coast ever tanked? Collingwood? Fremantle? They just have good football departments. Simple.

 

[Klyntonius]

Tanking really hurt us. And if you ask me, it really is a no brainer with regards to a strategy. Have Geelong ever tanked? Have Hawthorn ever tanked? Have Sydney ever tanked? Have West Coast ever tanked? Collingwood? Fremantle? They just have good football departments. Simple.

Depending on your definition of tanking then yes, there has been very strong argument to say that Hawthorn, West Coast and Collingwood have all been guilty of tanking in the past.

 

[deeco]

Tanking really hurt us. And if you ask me, it really is a no brainer with regards to a strategy. Have Geelong ever tanked? Have Hawthorn ever tanked? Have Sydney ever tanked? Have West Coast ever tanked? Collingwood? Fremantle? They just have good football departments. Simple.

Not sure if serious....

 

[Djcjdees]

Tanking really hurt us. And if you ask me, it really is a no brainer with regards to a strategy. Have Geelong ever tanked? Have Hawthorn ever tanked? Have Sydney ever tanked? Have West Coast ever tanked? Collingwood? Fremantle? They just have good football departments. Simple.

Um, didn't pretty much all of those clubs tank at one point or another?

 

[demondavey]

Not sure if serious....

Well since 2007 Hawthorn have had an incredibly strong list. That is 8 years ago and 4 Grand Final appearances have been heralded with 3 premierships. Geelong since 2004 have been in the mix, and the highest draft selection I remember them having is Mackie at 7 in 2002 and Selwood at 7 in 06? Sydney have had concessions plus the academy program but still recruited incredibly well, especially during trade period. Collingwood have been amongst the top 4 or there abouts in the finals since 2007, and West Coast have done well since 2011. Fremantle has been a revelation under Ross Lyon and are on track for a premiership potentially.

What I am getting at is that when these top ranking clubs have things that Melbourne do not. That is good recruitment, good competent administration, a good culture, and an ability to turn things around quickly and stay in premiership contention. Watts was pick no.1 in 2008, Scully in 09 as well as Trengove in there and Morton was 4 I believe. We have access to talent and ability, but since 2008 we have not had the ability to change our club around and put ourselves into premiership contention. I wonder what the plan was for Melbourne to win a flag back in 2008? What was our strategy to win a premiership? Tanking won't help you do that, it just shows that it actually prevents it. The club is marginally better off in 2015 than it was in 2008. In 7 years we have not gone anywhere. Have a look at Geelong's history since 2004;

2004 - Prelim final
2005 - Semi Final
2006 - Missed finals
2007 - Flag
2008 - Lost GF
2009 - Flag
2010 - Prelim final
2011 - Flag
2012 - Elim final
2013 - Prelim final
2014 - Semi final

11 years of finals experience with 3 flags and a kick away from another GF appearance in 13, and unlucky not to progress in 05. That is 11 years of sustained success. And as i said, highest draft selections since the super draft of 01 have been Mackie and Selwood.

I am sorry, but Melbourne should be looking at Geelong as an exact blueprint for success for our next 10 years.

 

[Dez!]

The Geelong blueprint involves F/S selections.

What we are doing now is fine, it's just not a speedy process that's going to happen overnight.

 

[d33my]

I don't know how this can be the fault of Paul Roos?

Granted that it wasn't my most coherent post, but the point I was trying to get at was that there was no reason to blame Roos, while at the same time not affording him some sort of clemency from criticism.

 

[deeco]

Stuff saying tanking is bad

Ok lets look at the nucleus of the Geelong '07 premiership team? (Will exclude the never ending godlike father son selections of Gaz, Scarlett and then Hawkins in 2006)
Jimmy Bartel: Drafted, 2001
Stevie J: Drafted, 2001
Enright: Drafted, 1999
Ling: Drafted, 1999
Chapman: Drafted, 1999
Mooney: Traded, 2000
Harley: Traded, 1999
Selwood: Drafted, 2006

Lets look at some ladder positions:
1996: 6th
1997: 11th
1998: 12th
1999: 11th
2000: 5th
2001: 12th

2004: 4th
2005: 6th
2006: 10th (WIN THE NAB CUP)
2007: 1st

Take out the awfulness of Neeld and Bails having to "develop the youth", we ran into the bottom end of the ladder as the top 20-30 players had all been offered up on a silver platter to the expansion clubs. Those players that Geelong picked up in those "down" years who are still playing are the ones carrying the team to this day. You can't "develop the youth" like Geelong have without that core group there which they achieved by magically bottoming out at the right time just after they have had a good run at the finals. Watch when Selwood+Bartel are over the hill the team will struggle, their current youth is no where near the calibre of those that drove them to the '07 and subsequent cups.

 

[demondavey]

And I think it would be fair to say that Geelong dominated the superdraft of 01 with Ablett, Bartel, Johnson, Kelly, and already had Chapman, enrig

Ok lets look at the nucleus of the Geelong '07 premiership team? (Will exclude the never ending godlike father son selections of Gaz, Scarlett and then Hawkins in 2006)
Jimmy Bartel: Drafted, 2001
Stevie J: Drafted, 2001
Enright: Drafted, 1999
Ling: Drafted, 1999
Chapman: Drafted, 1999
Mooney: Traded, 2000
Harley: Traded, 1999
Selwood: Drafted, 2006

Lets look at some ladder positions:
1996: 6th
1997: 11th
1998: 12th
1999: 11th
2000: 5th
2001: 12th

2004: 4th
2005: 6th
2006: 10th (WIN THE NAB CUP)
2007: 1st

Take out the awfulness of Neeld and Bails having to "develop the youth", we ran into the bottom end of the ladder as the top 20-30 players had all been offered up on a silver platter to the expansion clubs. Those players that Geelong picked up in those "down" years who are still playing are the ones carrying the team to this day. You can't "develop the youth" like Geelong have without that core group there which they achieved by magically bottoming out at the right time just after they have had a good run at the finals. Watch when Selwood+Bartel are over the hill the team will struggle, their current youth is no where near the calibre of those that drove them to the '07 and subsequent cups.

I agree that the superdraft and the 99 gifted Geelong with some amazing players, well all premiership players really, but they still had to make the call on selecting them. Kelly and Johnson went at the end of the first round, so were overlooked by many. When they lose Enright, Bartel, Mackie, and eventually Selwood, that will hurt, but Geelong has ab ability through a successful history and strong club culture to develop players now for the future. I am concerned about Melbourne having Watts, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease, Bennell, Cook, Davis, Jurrah, Wonnamerri, etc as well as trading in Rodan, Byrnes. I mean really? We have had about 7-8 attempts at drafts and trade periods to end up where we are. It's a serious joke. Since 2008 Geelong has introduced Mitch Brown, Steven Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Vardy, Guthrie, Podisadly, Bews, Rivers, Taylor. Do I need to go on?

 

[Topkent]

And I think it would be fair to say that Geelong dominated the superdraft of 01 with Ablett, Bartel, Johnson, Kelly, and already had Chapman, enrig


I agree that the superdraft and the 99 gifted Geelong with some amazing players, well all premiership players really, but they still had to make the call on selecting them. Kelly and Johnson went at the end of the first round, so were overlooked by many. When they lose Enright, Bartel, Mackie, and eventually Selwood, that will hurt, but Geelong has ab ability through a successful history and strong club culture to develop players now for the future. I am concerned about Melbourne having Watts, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease, Bennell, Cook, Davis, Jurrah, Wonnamerri, etc as well as trading in Rodan, Byrnes. I mean really? We have had about 7-8 attempts at drafts and trade periods to end up where we are. It's a serious joke. Since 2008 Geelong has introduced Mitch Brown, Steven Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Vardy, Guthrie, Podisadly, Bews, Rivers, Taylor. Do I need to go on?

Think of kent as chapman and McDonald and a couple others as the 99 picks ..

Our 2001 draft will be havin hogan Petracca and brayshaw debut this year...we are just beginning

 

[deeco]

And I think it would be fair to say that Geelong dominated the superdraft of 01 with Ablett, Bartel, Johnson, Kelly, and already had Chapman, enrig


I agree that the superdraft and the 99 gifted Geelong with some amazing players, well all premiership players really, but they still had to make the call on selecting them. Kelly and Johnson went at the end of the first round, so were overlooked by many. When they lose Enright, Bartel, Mackie, and eventually Selwood, that will hurt, but Geelong has ab ability through a successful history and strong club culture to develop players now for the future. I am concerned about Melbourne having Watts, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts, Tapscott, Blease, Bennell, Cook, Davis, Jurrah, Wonnamerri, etc as well as trading in Rodan, Byrnes. I mean really? We have had about 7-8 attempts at drafts and trade periods to end up where we are. It's a serious joke. Since 2008 Geelong has introduced Mitch Brown, Steven Motlop, Menzel, Duncan, Vardy, Guthrie, Podisadly, Bews, Rivers, Taylor. Do I need to go on?

Geelong have just as many shit picks on their list, but their champions cover the cracks, Smedst? McCarthy? Darcy Lang? Dean Gore? Dawson Simpson? Josh Cowan? Caddy? Horlin-Smith? Cunico? Jarrad Jansen? Shane Kersten? ETC ETC ETC ETC, all awful/look good with good service.

Half of those picks you listed were either injury crippled or homesick/went on a machete spree. The guy who developed those 07 premiership players was talking about players like the Toump going to be almost Bartel-esque when he cracks in and said we were 2-3 good drafts away from having a premiership core. We're coming from a long way back, but that core is definitely coming together.

 

[demondavey]

Geelong have just as many shit picks on their list, but their champions cover the cracks, Smedst? McCarthy? Darcy Lang? Dean Gore? Dawson Simpson? Josh Cowan? Caddy? Horlin-Smith? Cunico? Jarrad Jansen? Shane Kersten? ETC ETC ETC ETC, all awful/look good with good service.

Half of those picks you listed were either injury crippled or homesick/went on a machete spree. The guy who developed those 07 premiership players was talking about players like the Toump going to be almost Bartel-esque when he cracks in and said we were 2-3 good drafts away from having a premiership core. We're coming from a long way back, but that core is definitely coming together.

I don't disagree with our core group. Now to me that consists of Jones, Vince, Viney, Hogan, McDonald, Howe, Garland, Vandenberg, Lumumba, Fitzpatrick, Brayshaw, and a few others, but the point I am making is that over such a long period of time, we really have picked some average players. Now look at the way Brayshaw has performed this year as a top 3 pick compared to some others we have had. We have a 'core', but gee we are behind in terms of time. Granted we have dropped winnable games this year to St Kilda, been 4 goals off Collingwood, and given up good leads against Port and GWS. So it is not dire, but we are behind with some rubbish recruiting and some average coaching.

 

[demondavey]

Think of kent as chapman and McDonald and a couple others as the 99 picks ..

Our 2001 draft will be havin hogan Petracca and brayshaw debut this year...we are just beginning

Well we need to keep our best player in Hogan, which is no certainty, but yes, we have some talent there. I'd be paying Hogan what he wants to stay.

 

[deeco]

I don't disagree with our core group. Now to me that consists of Jones, Vince, Viney, Hogan, McDonald, Howe, Garland, Vandenberg, Lumumba, Fitzpatrick, Brayshaw, and a few others, but the point I am making is that over such a long period of time, we really have picked some average players. Now look at the way Brayshaw has performed this year as a top 3 pick compared to some others we have had. We have a 'core', but gee we are behind in terms of time. Granted we have dropped winnable games this year to St Kilda, been 4 goals off Collingwood, and given up good leads against Port and GWS. So it is not dire, but we are behind with some rubbish recruiting and some average coaching.

Half of the players you listed above had rising star noms aka could play a bit, probably more than half of them ended up with long term injuries early in their career. One liked to play with big knives, one liked to eat turtles, and one couldn't handle his mates having a beer. Watts was ruined by one of the shittest head coaches in AFL history.

If you could foresee all those issues and injuries ruining our recruiting for the past 5 years you've been blessed and I'm sure all Dees fans would urge you to be sharing your gifts with our recruitment department ahead of time so we could lavish you with solid gold houses and rocket cars.