Roast Coaching discussion thread

[Klyntonius]

Whilst not every move that Roos has made has been right - hell, Lumumbarumba - I think a lot of us forget just how far back we're coming from.

Although we've been rebuilding for the best part of a decade, the reality is that we're 18 months into a quality rebuild. Compare that to the Bulldogs (who have built and developed their team of talent properly), they are a good two years ahead on development. As McCartney laid a platform that Beveridge has ultimately taken to the next level, I can see Roos doing the same for Goodwin. The recruiting from the past two off-seasons has been hugely positive, we're bringing in footballers with hardness and desire rather than athletes with upside but there's clearly plenty more work to be done.

I think Roos has been, and is still good for the club. Next year Goodwin will begin the takeover from Roos. At this stage we can only hope that Roos eye for coaching talent is as good as Taylor's is for onfield talent.

 

[deeco]

Changing tack a bit, I keep hearing people suggesting that our fitness isn't upto it etc etc

Misson was signed up under Neeld. The Roos/re-rebuild has been here for near on 2 years and has yet to pull the trigger on him. Obviously Roos would have an idea of elite level training from the Swans, so is this an oversight? Or is the bloke getting the boys fit enough to match it and they just refuse to put in the effort come gameday?

 

[Demon 16]

Changing tack a bit, I keep hearing people suggesting that our fitness isn't upto it etc etc

Misson was signed up under Neeld. The Roos/re-rebuild has been here for near on 2 years and has yet to pull the trigger on him. Obviously Roos would have an idea of elite level training from the Swans, so is this an oversight? Or is the bloke getting the boys fit enough to match it and they just refuse to put in the effort come gameday?

I don't think our list is particularly deep with hard runners.

Most of our best runners play at Casey (Bail, McKenzie, M Jones), or are our key position players (McDonald, Dawes, Hogan).

We've drafted for contested ball in recent years, so I think it's more a virtue of that.

Hopefully the next layer is some hard running mids.

 

[Klyntonius]

Changing tack a bit, I keep hearing people suggesting that our fitness isn't upto it etc etc

Misson was signed up under Neeld. The Roos/re-rebuild has been here for near on 2 years and has yet to pull the trigger on him. Obviously Roos would have an idea of elite level training from the Swans, so is this an oversight? Or is the bloke getting the boys fit enough to match it and they just refuse to put in the effort come gameday?

I've been thinking about this and reckon it's multi-faceted. I think that:
a) a large part of our better players are young and tiring
b) too many best 22 players missing and the drop off in depth really shows up
c) our leaders wearing out trying to carry the burden of a and b.

Roos worked with Misson in Sydney so I think he'll be around for at least next year whilst Roos is still in charge.

 

[djpaulydemon]

There is definitely two sides to our team.

The "on" Melbourne that wins most the stoppages, contested ball and looks a lot more dynamic, we seem to have space for our forwards and we block the corridor well.

Then there is the "off" Melbourne that will lose most clearances, not from bad tap work but from severely losing every contest. We stay stationary and handball to the stationary target backwards around our F50 when trying to enter because our forward line is too congested as our mids flood the space. Then we get easily beaten on the counter attack after the ball gets bombed in into a contest of 10 players and spoiled, then no one can get a kick off so we handball backwards and backwards until we eventually turn it over and the backline have to compete 1 on 1 in an open goal.

When our talls are taking contested grabs and our mids are winning contested ball our ball use becomes really good, but we need to learn how to stay in the game when not every facet of the game is going our way. Hawthorn lost the contested possessions to Geelong on the weekend but still carved them up and got way more inside 50's.

I think Roos is teaching them how to play this complete "on" brand of football and the "off" style is just some bastardisation of his gameplan that they revert to when they aren't winning the contested ball. Slowly we will play the "on" brand more and hopefully in a few years we will learn how to win when things aren't going our way like the best sides in the comp can do.

 

[fushy]

Changing tack a bit, I keep hearing people suggesting that our fitness isn't upto it etc etc

Misson was signed up under Neeld. The Roos/re-rebuild has been here for near on 2 years and has yet to pull the trigger on him. Obviously Roos would have an idea of elite level training from the Swans, so is this an oversight? Or is the bloke getting the boys fit enough to match it and they just refuse to put in the effort come gameday?

I dont see it as a fitness issue as our blokes look slow in the first qtr and thats due to the fact they are just slow.

We need outside speed.

 

[deeco]

I've been thinking about this and reckon it's multi-faceted. I think that:
a) a large part of our better players are young and tiring
b) too many best 22 players missing and the drop off in depth really shows up
c) our leaders wearing out trying to carry the burden of a and b.

Roos worked with Misson in Sydney so I think he'll be around for at least next year whilst Roos is still in charge.

Young and tired is a massive cop out. 3-4 years it'll be our old blokes are too old and tired, sure as frank you'd have a lot more energy when you're the better side of 25. Depth shouldn't be a reason to not run out a game either or put on some great quarters then disapear. The leaders should be pushing the standards and lifting the other blokes up to their level. Instead Jones etc will go missing and get tagged out of a game easily or turn into a clanger machines.

I dont see it as a fitness issue as our blokes look slow in the first qtr and thats due to the fact they are just slow.

We need outside speed.

I wouldn't say the Hawks or Freo are bursting with outside speed so I wouldn't put it down to that. Unfortunately we're just full of soft, lazy downhill skiing footballers who shut up shop when the going gets tough, but then decide to play like millionaires for a full game every 4-5 weeks. Must frustrate Roos and the coaching staff to no end considering some of the performances we've managed to put out, then back up with the drivel like we played for 3qt of the Dogs game.

 

[Klyntonius]

Young and tired is a massive cop out. 3-4 years it'll be our old blokes are too old and tired, sure as frank you'd have a lot more energy when you're the better side of 25. Depth shouldn't be a reason to not run out a game either or put on some great quarters then disapear. The leaders should be pushing the standards and lifting the other blokes up to their level. Instead Jones etc will go missing and get tagged out of a game easily or turn into a clanger machines.

Call it a cop out if you like, I'm just trying to find a logical reason for why we're a tired team. Roos wants to play a brand of football that's physically intensive and he's smart enough to know the players need to be very fit to play such a style. Misson has worked successfully with Roos before and also with StKilda under Ross Lyon who has a similarly taxing gameplan so Misson knows what is needed to prepare a team properly.

You're one of the few blokes who doesn't think our young guys like Brayshaw, ANB and perhaps even Gawn look tired. Lack of depth of quality impacts because we've too many blokes who can't find the footy and/or hit targets which results in regular turnovers and kills our run. Our leaders wear out because too much gets left to too few. Jones has had an odd year by his standards getting tagged out of games but I doubt it's because of a lack of effort.

 

[Topkent]

Call it a cop out if you like, I'm just trying to find a logical reason for why we're a tired team. Roos wants to play a brand of football that's physically intensive and he's smart enough to know the players need to be very fit to play such a style. Misson has worked successfully with Roos before and also with StKilda under Ross Lyon who has a similarly taxing gameplan so Misson knows what is needed to prepare a team properly.

You're one of the few blokes who doesn't think our young guys like Brayshaw, ANB and perhaps even Gawn look tired. Lack of depth of quality impacts because we've too many blokes who can't find the footy and/or hit targets which results in regular turnovers and kills our run. Our leaders wear out because too much gets left to too few. Jones has had an odd year by his standards getting tagged out of games but I doubt it's because of a lack of effort.

Said this in another thread
On the weekend 19 of our 22 have had more than 3 pre seasons
Garlett Hogan* Harmes
Watts Dawes ANB
Jones Viney Bail
Lumumba McDonald Howe
Jetta Dunn Garland
Gawn* Jones Brayshaw
Vince Cross Grimes Michie*

*Hogan has done 3 but missed some of his second with his back Injury
** Gawn may not have completed 3 with his injury history
***Michie same as Gawn

 

[deeco]

Call it a cop out if you like, I'm just trying to find a logical reason for why we're a tired team. Roos wants to play a brand of football that's physically intensive and he's smart enough to know the players need to be very fit to play such a style. Misson has worked successfully with Roos before and also with StKilda under Ross Lyon who has a similarly taxing gameplan so Misson knows what is needed to prepare a team properly.

You're one of the few blokes who doesn't think our young guys like Brayshaw, ANB and perhaps even Gawn look tired. Lack of depth of quality impacts because we've too many blokes who can't find the footy and/or hit targets which results in regular turnovers and kills our run. Our leaders wear out because too much gets left to too few. Jones has had an odd year by his standards getting tagged out of games but I doubt it's because of a lack of effort.

Gawn is obviously cooked and can't run out full games as an out and out ruck without breaks yet, but if Brayshaw or ANB are struggling, why do they keep playing them?

Fitness staff obviously think they're upto it. Stretch, Toump, Michie, JKH etc etc can all fill gaps or play roles if our first year blokes need a week off, yet they continue to trot them out. Either that or Roos has decided to frank fitness levels and long term development which I find a bit harder to believe.

 

[Klyntonius]

Said this in another thread
On the weekend 19 of our 22 have had more than 3 pre seasons
Garlett Hogan* Harmes
Watts Dawes ANB
Jones Viney Bail
Lumumba McDonald Howe
Jetta Dunn Garland
Gawn* Jones Brayshaw
Vince Cross Grimes Michie*

*Hogan has done 3 but missed some of his second with his back Injury
** Gawn may not have completed 3 with his injury history
***Michie same as Gawn

Highlighted the players I think are tired or not up to it (or just flaky in Howe's case). That's over 1/3 of the team. The better players can only compensate for them so far before they burn out trying to carry the extra load. That's just my opinion/theory on the matter.

Gawn is obviously cooked and can't run out full games as an out and out ruck without breaks yet, but if Brayshaw or ANB are struggling, why do they keep playing them?

Fitness staff obviously think they're upto it. Stretch, Toump, Michie, JKH etc etc can all fill gaps or play roles if our first year blokes need a week off, yet they continue to trot them out. Either that or Roos has decided to frank fitness levels and long term development which I find a bit harder to believe.

I can only assume they think a worn out Brayshaw or ANB is still better than who would replace them. You would think in such a situation Newton or maybe Toumpas would get a run but them Lumumba keeps getting games so team selection doesn't always appear to be logical.

 

[LeverPuller]

Great interview with Rawlings on SEN

 

[A11dAtP0w3R]

Hird as an assistant?

 

[schmuttt]

Great interview with Rawlings on SEN

Assuming it'll be up on their site soon?

 

[LeverPuller]

Assuming it'll be up on their site soon?

Think it'll be tomorrow morning.

 

[Topkent]

Hird as an assistant?

'Hey James bought donuts for everyone '

 

[Ando727]

Assuming it'll be up on their site soon?

listen to this on Audioboo

 

[booshboy]

I cannot stand Finey.

 

[Meds]

Highlighted the players I think are tired or not up to it (or just flaky in Howe's case). That's over 1/3 of the team. The better players can only compensate for them so far before they burn out trying to carry the extra load. That's just my opinion/theory on the matter.
I can only assume they think a worn out Brayshaw or ANB is still better than who would replace them. You would think in such a situation Newton or maybe Toumpas would get a run but them Lumumba keeps getting games so team selection doesn't always appear to be logical.

I reckon with some of them it's more about internal motivation instead of fatigue.
I've played in shizen teams in the past and you could see the blokes that didn't think we were a chance just go through the motions, particularly towards the end of a season.
No one enjoys losing week in and week out. Some players can rise above that and still perform, others can't or won't.

 

[ponsdale]

listen to this on Audioboo

Worth 15 minutes of your time to listen. Rawlings comes across well. Interesting comments re: Lumumba too.

 

[Sir Hugh Percy]

Worth 15 minutes of your time to listen. Rawlings comes across well. Interesting comments re: Lumumba too.

The gist of his comments re Lumumba?

 

[wowlace]

Worth 15 minutes of your time to listen. Rawlings comes across well. Interesting comments re: Lumumba too.

When asked about our form and progress he just talks the same old rhetoric. These guys have no answer to our shitness.

 

[ponsdale]

The gist of his comments re Lumumba?

Valued for more than his stats, recognises his effort has dropped off recently, open and honest talks with Roos and Rawlings, the usual list.

 

[ponsdale]

When asked about our form and progress he just talks the same old rhetoric. These guys have no answer to our shitness.

What did you want him to say?

I'm not trying to defend him, just curious.

 

[wowlace]

What did you want him to say?

I'm not trying to defend him, just curious.

Anything but the same old rhetoric, avoiding the real issues. These guys are like politicians.

At Melbourne, we need to get down on the floor and ask the right questions. We need an honest discussion about why we are here and how do we get out of here as fast as possible.

Whenever a coach speaks, my understanding about our club is not increased at all. I don't know what they are trying to achieve, if it's winning games and not getting pumped, they aren't doing a good job.

I guess I'm just sick of the excuses, it's like ground hog day.

I would have liked for example, when talking about H. Let's not sugar coat this shit; every payer should be "great" around the club, I mean how hard is that TO DO? Why not say, he has been very poor for a number of weeks and he is likely to get dropped. No, we have to say he offers "stuff" around the club. **** me, that is the weakest shit and I'm sick of it. Being good around the club should be less than the bare minimum.

The thing with Melbourne is, they keep trying the same shit expecting different results. Didn't some scientist say that is the definition of crazy?

Too many getting a pass for mine, not just coaches, players too. Jones has been shit for ages bar one or games. I really question his leadership, poster love to hang shit on B.Green for his jumper grabs and general front running, but Jones ain't much better. He was shit on Sunday, that's ok, but he was quiet as a mouse. Your the captain ffs, say something to your players.

iausdvivb rant aihfuaihv raev