Coaching Structure 2016

[Caldera]

Did we really capitalise on his dominance this year though? Or last year?

We were ranked 8th for centre clearances this year having the same average per game as the Bulldogs despite having 539 more hitouts than them.

In 2014 we were ranked 13th for centre clearances but once again dominated the league in hit outs.

Look i'm not knocking the guy, I'm sure he's a great assistant but perhaps there were a few other things at play that helped Sydney's midfield and perhaps our media team boosted him a touch ott when we got him? Or maybe it was just on here that he was spruked? Anyone remember what position he held at WC?

I'm actually in agreement with you, although the stats vary (AFL.com has us on top for clearances in 2015). He did improve our clearance work, but with the leagues dominant ruckman and elite midfielders in Mundy, Fyfe (and I'd put Barlow in there prior to the half forward role) you would expect to be in the upper echelon of clearance stats.

What I'm really interested in, and it's what Whatname is driving at as well - how do we improve our ball movement, from D50 into the centre and from the centre into the F50. Is that a collective strategy owned by Ross and all the line coaches, or is it Ross alone? Or do we have a strategist as well?

 

[Unique Name]

Did we really capitalise on his dominance this year though? Or last year?

We were ranked 8th for centre clearances this year having the same average per game as the Bulldogs despite having 539 more hitouts than them.

In 2014 we were ranked 13th for centre clearances but once again dominated the league in hit outs.

Look i'm not knocking the guy, I'm sure he's a great assistant but perhaps there were a few other things at play that helped Sydney's midfield and perhaps our media team boosted him a touch ott when we got him? Or maybe it was just on here that he was spruked? Anyone remember what position he held at WC?

I don't have the stats but I think we faired better when you look at clearance differential rather than outright numbers. Our games are usually low scoring so we attend fewer centre clearances than other sides so our numbers are lower.

 

[FreoMonocle]

Change takes time, this is probably too early to ask.

Our ruck to midfield was somewhere between serviceable to exemplary, irrespective of who rucked (Sandi, Griff, Clarke) last year. Underwhelming this year though.

There has been plenty of roasting of players, plenty or roasting of Ross. But given 2 fundamental changes for coaching, ie a change in gameplan as well as a change of coaching staff for midfield/clearance, the difference between last years midfield and this year would seem to be rooted in the brains trust rather than the playing group.

Does the current coaching (as a group) just need time to gel and gain experience? Or has some of our coaching (theory, practices or staff) been exposed as not up to task?

 

[im_a_lazy_sod]

Change takes time, this is probably too early to ask.

Our ruck to midfield was somewhere between serviceable to exemplary, irrespective of who rucked (Sandi, Griff, Clarke) last year. Underwhelming this year though.

There has been plenty of roasting of players, plenty or roasting of Ross. But given 2 fundamental changes for coaching, ie a change in gameplan as well as a change of coaching staff for midfield/clearance, the difference between last years midfield and this year would seem to be rooted in the brains trust rather than the playing group.

Does the current coaching (as a group) just need time to gel and gain experience? Or has some of our coaching (theory, practices or staff) been exposed as not up to task?

I think (or at least hope this). As you say, everything takes time and while I wish we had at least 1-2 wins out of our first 4 games, you can see that we are improving week by week in different areas (although round 1 is a complete write-off). Round 2 we attacked better, but turned it over or couldn't get our hands on it in the middle. Round 3 was weather permitting, but we were much better defensively and with Sandi going down our mids had to adapt better. Round 4 our mids got their hands on the ball and we looked a lot more fluid (at times) handpassing it through the guts to get a kick forward in to the 50 and on a forwards chest.

If by the bye (or even say, round 12) we haven't notched up at least 3-4 wins then I'd be maybe inclined to panic, but if we can get it all working gradually, our run home from the bye onwards actually isn't too bad in that we only travel 3 times in 8 rounds, though we face some stiff competition along the way

Before the bye I can see us having winnable games v Carlton, GWS, Richmond, Essendon, Brisbane, Port and Collingwood - and that's not being generous. If you look at who we have lost to so far as well, we have been beaten by an undefeated North (who we let have a massive 4 goal head start and could have won), West Coast (who we had on the ropes until Sandi went down and Fyfe turned it over before half-time - think "momentum killer") and Gold Coast (who we had our chances against). Bulldogs were incredible and I can't really find any real instances in that game that could indicate that we could have won.

Going in to the bye 7W 7L would be alright, given we have an okay run home in terms of travel load (we travel once in the last 5 rounds ffs)

 

[Belnakor]

So about the coaching structure...

clearly something has gone wrong. Ross delegating to a bunch of first year coaches hasn't worked. Player skills have gone backwards.

It reminds me alot of Gretzky "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been"

At the moment it seems the coaching staff are skating to where the puck used to be (ie: where the Hawks were 2 years ago).

Call me crazy but why exactly would you replicate a style that the competition has spent the past 4 years trying to beat?

 

[meima]

So about the coaching structure...

clearly something has gone wrong. Ross delegating to a bunch of first year coaches hasn't worked. Player skills have gone backwards.

It reminds me alot of Gretzky "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been"

At the moment it seems the coaching staff are skating to where the puck used to be (ie: where the Hawks were 2 years ago).

Call me crazy but why exactly would you replicate a style that the competition has spent the past 4 years trying to beat?

I don't think getting Hale and Guerra mean replicate hawthorn. The problem right now is decision making as mentioned in Ross presser, all the training watcher didn't lied about how good suban,deboer and d.Pearce kick are during training but under pressure they just totally lost it. Pre season training Dawson is a good kick , come matches he revert back to handball. Is a lot different between simulation and the real thing.

 

[rgauci]

We haven't spent nearly enough money on the assistant coaches. I'm not sure paying Peter Sumich as a development coach is appropriate. Given football department soft "salary caps" seems a huge waste to put someone on presumably a big wage in a development position.

We need to spend more and spend smart.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

So about the coaching structure...

clearly something has gone wrong. Ross delegating to a bunch of first year coaches hasn't worked. Player skills have gone backwards.

It reminds me alot of Gretzky "I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been"

At the moment it seems the coaching staff are skating to where the puck used to be (ie: where the Hawks were 2 years ago).

Call me crazy but why exactly would you replicate a style that the competition has spent the past 4 years trying to beat?

This is part of the reason why we are 0-5. Part of the issue is we are too slow to execute the plan, which is why teams can setup their defensive presses.

Like you have suggested the game has gone to hard-running out of defensive presses, and we are trying to execute yesterday's plan.

The other part of the problem is coaching dynamic isn't working. The assistant coaches aren't gelling.

 

[meima]

This is part of the reason why we are 0-5. Part of the issue is we are too slow to execute the plan, which is why teams can setup their defensive presses.

Like you have suggested the game has gone to hard-running out of defensive presses, and we are trying to execute yesterday's plan.

The other part of the problem is coaching dynamic isn't working. The assistant coaches aren't gelling.

You can clearly see also player like deboer , croz, playing different role with peel and freo . not every player like Hodge and Mitchell ,fyfe,ablett can play anywhere and star.

 

[wild side]

Webb is the coach under the spotlight. Stone is now forwards coach, and Webb has taken the mids.
Someone can enlighten me, but he doesn't have a lot of AFL experience IIRC.
He was straight from Claremont wasn't he ?

 

[meima]

Our problem is the movement of the ball ,from back,mid to forward all the player should be responsible I don't think blame it only on coaches is fair.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

Webb is the coach under the spotlight. Stone is now forwards coach, and Webb has taken the mids.
Someone can enlighten me, but he doesn't have a lot of AFL experience IIRC.
He was straight from Claremont wasn't he ?

Yes and Webb got smashed by Ross last week for the centre clearances being a disaster.

 

[Dirty_banchez]

You can clearly see also player like deboer , croz, playing different role with peel and freo . not every player like Hodge and Mitchell ,fyfe,ablett can play anywhere and star.

We don't have the skills to execute the plan, which is rather short-sighted by Ross since by his own admission we burned the ball a lot last year. Why adopt a game plan which requires high skill, when he knows we don't have great kicking skills?

 

[meima]

We don't have the skills to execute the plan, which is rather short-sighted by Ross since by his own admission we burned the ball a lot last year.

That what surprise me more is why he don't expose the kids during Nab matches at least we know what they are capable of . Grey case I knew he will drop off second half , you can tackle ,chanse ,run hard but if your teamate keep burned the ball eventually you get tired.by saying that I would rather give him more game time, than suban and co long term .

 

[Dirty_banchez]

That what surprise me more is why he don't expose the kids during Nab matches at least we know what they are capable of . Grey case I knew he will drop off second half , you can tackle ,chanse ,run hard but if your teamate keep burned the ball eventually you get tired.by saying that I would rather give him more game time, than suban and co long term .

I'd be okay with Suban only getting 12-15 disposals if they were all penetrating kicks to advantage. His game at Peel showed he is so far off the pace.

 

[Belnakor]

I don't think getting Hale and Guerra mean replicate hawthorn. The problem right now is decision making as mentioned in Ross presser, all the training watcher didn't lied about how good suban,deboer and d.Pearce kick are during training but under pressure they just totally lost it. Pre season training Dawson is a good kick , come matches he revert back to handball. Is a lot different between simulation and the real thing.

Its not about pressure you can replicate pressure in a training environment.

The issue is the fundamental inability to replicate match conditions which governs the following
1) pressure
2) opposition tactics
3) crowd, relevance to season / career etc

obviously you can't replicate 3. 1 should be relatively straight forward. Coaches are there for point 2.

Clearly they have failed to address 2 because the players do not seem to have a fundamental understanding where they need to kick the ball under pressure.

Players like D.Pearce have AFL level skills in the right circumstances. The issue with Dpearce is not mechanics. It is purely a mental/anticipation/coaching issue. The coaches have obviously not given him the game plan and skill to know where to kick the ball when a clear target is not available.

Players passing backwards and sideways (We saw it ALOT on the weekend) is a hall mark of the connolly era which is a symptom of the players uncertainty with the game plan.

 

[Belnakor]

We haven't spent nearly enough money on the assistant coaches. I'm not sure paying Peter Sumich as a development coach is appropriate. Given football department soft "salary caps" seems a huge waste to put someone on presumably a big wage in a development position.

We need to spend more and spend smart.

we have the 2nd highest football department spend in the competition. Money isn't the issue.

People are attracted to jobs based on

1) Development / Career progression
2) Money
3) Work life balance

Keeping in mind the AFL system seems to employ almost purely ex-AFL footballers who would typically work 3-4 hours a day (and that is primarily physical) this would be a significant culture shock moving into a Ross Lyon led club.

Ross works huge hours and expects his assistants to as well. This would obviously create issues for ex-players even inspite of the money available. Ross's development is up for debate, i'm not aware of too many people who Ross has mentored into a senior coaching role?

 

[rodney hoo]

I think the big loss was Brett kirk, look how Sydney midfieid is going this year and they're playing young players as well.
Webb was very good at peel last year when I was listening at the breaks, always calm and well spoken, Eastaugh is midfieid coach as well.

 

[meima]

Players like D.Pearce have AFL level skills in the right circumstances. The issue with Dpearce is not mechanics. It is purely a mental/anticipation/coaching issue. The coaches have obviously not given him the game plan and skill to know where to kick the ball when a clear target is not available.

Players passing backwards and sideways (We saw it ALOT on the weekend) is a hall mark of the connolly era which is a symptom of the players uncertainty with the game plan.

D.Pearce as an afl player playing more than 9 years should voice out if he is not clear about the game plan during pre season, as much as he is frustrating to my liking he is a smart intelligence human if something go wrong or not clear.

 

[Belnakor]

D.Pearce as an afl player playing more than 9 years should voice out if he is not clear about the game plan during pre season, as much as he is frustrating to my liking he is a smart intelligence human if something go wrong or not clear.

D Pearce is a footballer not a coach. If he doesn't know where to kick the ball then he needs to be coached to know where to kick the ball. Its that simple.

 

[Belnakor]

Webb is the coach under the spotlight. Stone is now forwards coach, and Webb has taken the mids.
Someone can enlighten me, but he doesn't have a lot of AFL experience IIRC.

we played that badly on the weekend the individual coaches can't take the blame. If anything our midfield acquitted itself well relatively.

 

[meima]

we played that badly on the weekend the individual coaches can't take the blame. If anything our midfield acquitted itself well relatively.

Then who is at fault ?

 

[Belnakor]

Then who is at fault ?

Ross the Rug

 

[The Devil's Advocate]

I think the big loss was Brett kirk, look how Sydney midfieid is going this year and they're playing young players as well.
Webb was very good at peel last year when I was listening at the breaks, always calm and well spoken, Eastaugh is midfieid coach as well.

Brett Kirk is the Swans' forward coach this year, but I agree with the general point. Was worried last year when I heard Kirk and Lloyd were leaving. We've replaced two of the highest credentialed assistant coaches with some newbies and some guys who've been moved from other roles.

Ross has to take ultimate responsibility as we would have recommended/signed off on the 2016 coaching panel to the Board/CEO.

 

[wild side]

Guerra seems to be the anointed one