Cockburn firming up

[Reginald Perrin]

I see the shithole claimed one more victim on Sunday.
My heart was in my mouth during the entire scratch match yesterday.

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

 

[Reginald Perrin]

On another matter, when does our bet finish?

 

[Nickos66]

You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

Correlation ≠ causation. How much more physically taxing is training and footy on the body compared with back in the day as well.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Correlation ≠ causation. How much more physically taxing is training and footy on the body compared with back in the day as well.

True enough, but is a torn ACL an over-use injury? I'll admit I have done limited study on the topic and am going mostly on gut feel, but it's a hefty gut.

 

[masai]

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

You can't do an ACL playing on a mud heap.

Nothing wrong with mud.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

How old are you? My guess is 140 years old

 

[Fred Ziffel]

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

I was talking to Smokey McPhee not long after his return to Fremantle and he told me the only reservation he had about coming back to Fremantle was the hardness of the ground. He said it is harder than Etihad.
Paul Hasleby is another who has been a strident critic of the hardness of Fremantle Oval.

The experts can conduct all the tests they like but the best way is to get feedback from the players.

Subiaco Oval has cruelled several players in recent history but that was attributed to poor quality grass. Freo Oval on the other hand is simply too hard.
It could be said you are right about the grass type at Subiaco being for the aesthetics on TV. Everybody thought it was the greatest when they did the entire resurface with a revolutionary draining system below the surface but it started blowing knees not long after.

 

[jedi mind tricks]

I was talking to Smokey McPhee not long after his return to Fremantle and he told me the only reservation he had about coming back to Fremantle was the hardness of the ground. He said it is harder than Etihad.
Paul Hasleby is another who has been a strident critic of the hardness of Fremantle Oval.

The experts can conduct all the tests they like but the best way is to get feedback from the players.

Subiaco Oval has cruelled several players in recent history but that was attributed to poor quality grass. Freo Oval on the other hand is simply too hard.

Apparently the new oval is no better according to Rege who hasn't even had a run on it yet.

Looking forward to him putting on the boots and giving his expert opinion.

 

[Frank J Moose]

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

ACL's were just not diagnosed back then. A player did a knee and was never seen again. Reconstructions were unheard of.

John Todd did his ACL. He hardly played again. Many others did and usually faded away into obscurity.

 

[Fred Ziffel]

On another matter, when does our bet finish?

It is til the end of this season.
I'm happy for it to lapse now though.

 

[Freofalcon]

How old are you? My guess is 140 years old

But he doesn't look a day over 120.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Apparently the new oval is no better according to Rege who hasn't even had a run on it yet.

Looking forward to him putting on the boots and giving his expert opinion.

I was basing my opinion on the horses mouth.

“... we’ve [made] the firmest possible surface that’s not going to give way when a player stops or props.”

 

[Reginald Perrin]

How old are you? My guess is 140 years old

Some mornings, sure.

It is til the end of this season.
I'm happy for it to lapse now though.

Nah, I'm good.

 

[Taylor]

True enough, but is a torn ACL an over-use injury? I'll admit I have done limited study on the topic and am going mostly on gut feel, but it's a hefty gut.

It both is and isn't. The ACL is for stability of the joint and the muscles around the knee will provide a lot of it, I've seen cases where a child has torn their ACL and it went without diagnosis and untreated - as the child developed into an adult the muscles around the knee had developed to take up that role. Now I am not sure what sort of cartilage trauma it was causing because I can't be sure how stable the joint was but this case was playing football without issue... until an upper leg muscle injury resulted in them weakening and losing their "compensation" for the missing ACL.

You can't do an ACL playing on a mud heap.

Nothing wrong with mud.

You can do your ACL standing in the shower pushing water with your foot.

 

[salim malik]

Do you honestly expect anything different on the new ground, Fred? Turf surfaces these days are just too damned manicured and tightly woven to allow a little give when it's necessary. It's all for the TV of course. You're old enough to remember what they used to play on, how many ACLs do you remember from those days?

Todd, Jackovich, Worsfold to name a few. ACL'S have been happening in all grades of all sports for ever. Soft muddy grounds were the earlier causes, now its firm and manicured. Its not the grounds fault ,its the make up of the human body. Knees aren't designed for the pressure sport puts on them.

 

[Reginald Perrin]

Todd, Jackovich, Worsfold to name a few. ACL'S have been happening in all grades of all sports for ever. Soft muddy grounds were the earlier causes, now its firm and manicured. Its not the grounds fault ,its the make up of the human body. Knees aren't designed for the pressure sport puts on them.

It's easy to name a few, but it doesn't seem to be as many as present day. I haven't heard the theory about it being related to soft, muddy grounds, but there is plenty of evidence from the NFL that ACLs are more prevalent on artificial turf than grass.

 

[salim malik]

It's easy to name a few, but it doesn't seem to be as many as present day. I haven't heard the theory about it being related to soft, muddy grounds, but there is plenty of evidence from the NFL that ACLs are more prevalent on artificial turf than grass.

I remember the days of the sticky muddy Vic grounds being blamed for knee injuries ,the reason being the foot stuck in the mud when turning the body. They weren't referred to as ACL'S in those days, plain old cartilage tear was the diagnosis and it was career ending . Once it occurred the player was gone and forgotten, there was no ongoing commentary on length of recovery and returning to play. John Todd was the only one I remember getting back and that was with a huge mechanical leather knee brace. Its the design of the knee thats to blame, its not designed for the quick twisting and turning of the ball sports. There is not to many ACL's in golf and they play on all sorts of surfaces.

 

[salim malik]

The British institute of sport actually report that concrete or oncambered road is the best to run on. Marathon runners rarely suffer knee injuries. Its the unpredictable surface of grass and sand plus the jumping, twisting and turning that is the main cause of knee and ankle injuries.

 

[igon value]

The British institute of sport actually report that concrete or oncambered road is the best to run on. Marathon runners rarely suffer knee injuries. Its the unpredictable surface of grass and sand plus the jumping, twisting and turning that is the main cause of knee and ankle injuries.

As someone who runs on road and trails I don't doubt that road is generally safer than uncertain terrain, but most if not all of my joint injuries and falls have happened on flat surfaces when my assumptions about them being flat have proved incorrect. On rougher terrain you always tend to move more carefully.

Ultimately sport related joint injuries are caused by movement your body does not expect and therefore is not prepared for. Footy is a game with a lot of variable movement and will always have joint injuries.

Surfaces might be to blame for strain injuries like calf or shin splints but not much else.

 

[Sweetback]

So did the women move in this week too and do they have their own lockers?

 

[couldhavebeen]

So did the women move in this week too and do they have their own lockers?

The women have moved to Cockburn and trained there on Monday at 6pm . Not being allowed into the change rooms I can't say anything about their lockers but I'm sure they would have them .The girls will more than likely post photos on face book soon ,

 

[masai]

.The girls will more than likely post photos on face book soon ,

Make sure Zac Dawson is not around !!!.

 

[Sweetback]

The women have moved to Cockburn and trained there on Monday at 6pm . Not being allowed into the change rooms I can't say anything about their lockers but I'm sure they would have them .The girls will more than likely post photos on face book soon ,

Ta. It seemed like a missed opportunity not to show both the dudes and dudettes moving in.

 

[wayToGo_]

I can't believe any pragmatic supporter would not be over-the-moon with the club's move to the new ETAF in Cockburn?!?

The romance of the club staying in Freo and players spending time along the cafe strip is nice but what I'd like more as a supporter is some silverware for the cabinet. And if state of the art facilities help in any way to winning a premiership then I'll take that over sipping my espresso whilst occasionally sighting Weller/Fyfe/Blakley/Logue's golden/mangy locks strolling along the footpath.

And of course... it has water slides.

 

[Clems Knee]

So did the women move in this week too and do they have their own lockers?

I asked about this a few weeks ago. The design of the Cockburn facility pre-dated the establishment of the AFLW, so I was told that there is not a permanent locker room for the women. Instead one of the public locker rooms will be closed off for the women during their season.