I think that those that would prevent their daughters playing footy now will be disproportionately from non sporting households (even if it is a majority which is very doubtful). The AFL primarily wants the best athletic talent and it won't lose much of that from the scared parents I would have thought. Scared parents produce physically awkward kids!
Oppo Camp "Code Wars" discussion
- Thread starter The_Wookie
- Start date
- Tagged users None
- Status
I think that those that would prevent their daughters playing footy now will be disproportionately from non sporting households (even if it is a majority which is very doubtful). The AFL primarily wants the best athletic talent and it won't lose much of that from the scared parents I would have thought. Scared parents produce physically awkward kids!
peternorth
Moderator
- May 6, 2005
- 127,450
- 75,570
- AFL Club
- Richmond
- Moderator
- #202
Id like to aruge that population has something to do with it. We are a young and small country in comparison to the USA, UK.....hence more sports, less people to capture. Same as ireland I guess.
I would think it wants market share not just elite talent, but like any sport there is only so many going to make it so you need a big pool to choose from, great example is how many kids play at school , Metro Comps, State league Comps, Country comps all in U18 and what about 70 -80 get drafted out of the thousands that play Australia wide. You need the large pool to choose from competition creates a better standard
Also if they are not playing AFL they may play Netball, Basketball, Soccer, Surfing who knows and they will have more of a association with that sport, which again isnt what the AFL are after
Garlic muncher
Cancelled
- Feb 3, 2016
- 4,480
- 3,258
- AFL Club
- Collingwood
No, I don't think it has to do with a small population it has to do with settlement patterns at a time when the game of football in its many different guises was being codified so it could be understood by more people rather than just a village or school.
If you migrated from the UK to Australia in the 1850's in general a few people would have understood the game of rugby, fast forward 20 or 30 years most people would have.
No one would have understood the game of soccer when this country was initially settled, now everyone in the world basically does.
If this country was settled in the 1870's footy would probably not exist.
AD would probably just be cooking fish and chips at Coburg with his parents.
BringBackTorps
Club Legend
- Jan 5, 2017
- 2,963
- 1,827
- AFL Club
- GWS
As per my reply to you above, HARD grounds is a very big problem in community AF, in some areas, at some times (ie not the majority of grounds, the majority of times -only early in the season). As I stated above, I would like a significant change in the ground management protocols -and thorough & immed. stats. on all injuries requiring a doctor or hospital visit to the controlling District body. Hopefully, this body could act VERY quickly if it appeared injuries might be due to excessively hard grounds(or some mongrel running around).
I am not aware for certain if knee and/or ankle injuries are on the rise.
Apart from hard grounds possibly contributing to this problem, these injuries would often happen from the injured player being TACKLED. We know in the AFL , collision/bump injuries are certainly on the rise (Prof. Norton Report, from SA) -& this is almost certainly due to the severe congestion issues in the AFL since about 2003. With 4 on the bench, unlimited i/change, community football is also likely to have followed this trend Prof. Norton identified.
In one game last year, the WB did a RECORD 155 tackles against their opponents -the more tackles in a game by men, then certainly more injuries will occur (in my opinion, don't have expert advice on this -but it is intuitive).
As for more fearful parents concerning sporting pursuits, I don't know-but probable.
It has always been known mothers are often fearful of their boys playing AF, or any other contact sport -but the father would often try to "soothe "the mother. In 1970, only about 5% of kids lived in single parent homes.
The "problem"the AFL now has is that in 2017, about 23% of kids are in sole parent families, nearly always headed by the mother. Thus, it is much more likely this mother, the sole decision maker, would direct her children to non-contact soccer, basketball etc (or no sport at all).
The AFL is fully aware of these societal changes -it has never been more important to keep adult women "onside".
Despite the above, AF always picks up some boys in the 13- 17 age group, who never played AF before because their parents wouldn't allow it -'too rough". But try telling a teenage boy what sport he can, or can't, play! Many of these simply want to play with their mates; and/or crave a much more competitive/physical game (testosterone kicking in) -they are keen to "have a crack at it".
Community AF is having very little success in attracting Asian children to our game -probably the parents are very protective and/or want their kids to study more on weekends.
Some inroads are being made eg the Southern Dragons VAFA teams, mainly VERY fit small Vietnamese, with a few tall Euro. ruckmen! And Masala FC VAFA, formed by Indians initially,& now very multicultural (PS- best food in community AF).
Interestingly, & without any logical reason, it appears we are getting a higher % of female Asians playing AF than males!
I suspect many parents will be even more fearful for their daughters playing AF -but this hasn't stopped about 380,000 signing up. I don't think female AF will in the next 20 years surpass female netball, soccer, or basketball. Some are suggesting, however, regd. female numbers will double in the next 10 years. Much will depend on how well the AFLW proceeds.
Last edited:
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
No, I don't think it has to do with a small population it has to do with settlement patterns at a time when the game of football in its many different guises was being codified so it could be understood by more people rather than just a village or school.
If you migrated from the UK to Australia in the 1850's in general a few people would have understood the game of rugby, fast forward 20 or 30 years most people would have.
No one would have understood the game of soccer when this country was initially settled, now everyone in the world basically does.
If this country was settled in the 1870's footy would probably not exist.
AD would probably just be cooking fish and chips at Coburg with his parents.
Timing is everything, and with the establishment of Australian Football, there were a few things that helped establish it before anything else got a toe hold:
- a point in time when adults are starting to play football, but no universal rules exist
- prosperity of Melbourne in immediate gold rush period
- lots of land available for a game which is still played on the biggest field of any of the football codes
- the five and a half working day week meant even the working class could play on a Saturday afternoon, helped make the game accessible to all classes
- the game immediately attracts big crowds, bigger than what was watching anything else anywhere else in the world
- Thread starter
- Moderator
- #208
The SAWFL consists of
- 18 teams in 3 divisions in the SAWFL playing 18 a side
- 11 teams in 1 division playing 12 a side
- 16 teams in 1 division playing under 18s.
- 4 teams in the Statewide Super Womens Competition
- 4 teams in the U16s Maccas Shield
- 4 teams in the U14s Maccas Shield
Teams? As in senior women's football teams? There are more like 10 leagues (just in Vic). There was the VFLW, then 5 divisions in the VWFL. This year the VWFL teams are being divided up amongst the men's leagues, all of whom are starting women's divisions, which includes a lot of existing men's clubs adding women's teams.
Most figures I have seen are in the range 50-70 NEW women's teams this year.
That's all just senior clubs.
My local club in the Southwest WA now has 3 girls team, and are adding a women's team for a startup league this year.
Sent from my XT1068 using Tapatalk
The 380,000 figure includes promotional sessions etc. On another thread there were apparently about 9,350 odd registered females in Victoria in 350 odd teams. This was apparently a 40% increase on 2015. I would expect registered club participants to double every couple of years or so for some time
Today's "West Australian" newspaper featured 3 sports women on the front page of the paper edition, taking up most of the page. I think footy has just given the minor codes of soccer and basketball more publicity than they have ever received in WA.
The article on page 11 is the same as this online version:
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/teams-share-a-common-goal-ng-b88379197z
- alongside an ad for scholarships to girls' private schools.
The article on page 11 is the same as this online version:
https://thewest.com.au/news/wa/teams-share-a-common-goal-ng-b88379197z
- alongside an ad for scholarships to girls' private schools.
External Inputs
Team Captain
Oh really? A lot of girls still do dancing and ballet. The summer and winter Olympics provide great examples of the many sports women pursue that don't involve being poleaxed, driven into the ground and coathangered. Even martial arts don't have participants limping or being carried off the floor like an AFL game does. Parents are scared for good reason, and there are plenty of other sports that'd pass the parent test that require as much or more coordination and ability than football.
A lot of the negativity about women's footy seems to be coming from supporters of other codes. The other ball codes will benefit from the improved coverage of women's sport in the short term, but will continue to whinge about the coverage of the Australian game. Netball is the interesting code for me. It is nominally non-contact but results in high numbers of injuries. I would imagine that there would be a flow among girls from Netball to Football.
As for minority sports that only get their time to shine during the Olympics? Their athletes will always find the attention on footy a bit galling.
Your comment that AFL games result in more injuries is obviously your perception, but it is not based in any reality.
The games I saw last week were better than any soccer game, because it was my preferred sport (and I don't have brain damage). I didn't see too many poleaxing, driving into the ground or coathangering. I did see more aggression than was present in the exhibition games last year and more playing for free kicks, which was disappointing, but not surprising in retrospect.
External Inputs
Team Captain
The first words out of a parent of daughters mouth when I mention AFL is always the threat of injuries. You can injure yourself pursuing any sport, it's the body contact injuries that are absent from many. You might think it's a perception, but there's hardly an AFL game where someone doesn't sustain an injury that prevents them from finishing the game, or worse. What is your definition of "too many" poleaxings, being driven into the ground or coathangering? One Collingwood player left the field early after a coathanger and didn't return. One Fremantle player suffered concussion and didn't return and three players were suspended including the one responsable for that concussion. Erin Phillips seemed to spend much of the game on the deck and copped a pretty decent coathanger as well.
Do you really think parents watching that come away with a false perception of the AFL? That they somehow wouldn't think it's a rough game where the number of potential injuries are magnified by all the tackling? Stitches to the head (Steph Chiocci) is something most parents would be uncomfortable with.
Anyway, my main reason for replying in the first place was the "scared parents produce physically awkward kids" line, where I'd contend a scared parent is exactly the right kind and that there are plenty of sports that don't require a mouthguard that take a lot of skill, coordination and dedication.
A lot of comparisons are being made between the men's and women's AFL for the obvious reason it's the identical game we can't compare it with anything else imagine comparing it to ping pong
As for the standard or gap between the men's and womens every sport has that gap of such a wide distance it's ridiculous
The majority of women Olympic sprinters over 100m run 11 seconds or more the Olympic gold last time was 10.7 most reasonable Victorian schoolboys can run around 11 seconds I think the fastest one ran a 10.44 meaning he would have won the gold at the Olympics in a women's Olympic final and a number of others could compete with these Olympians
Unfortunately it's a fact that the gap is enormous for physical differences in men and women's sport so the standard of football obviously suffers
But as for code wars we may see the war between the sexes in the same sport , when you look at most other codes we fail because of the fact the world won't accept AFL but then again it's no different to American football in that sense although due to population they blow us away. if we get back to comparison American football is probably the closest with Gaelic, but they have stayed truly amateur. Soccer is clearly the most popular sport in the world and will probably never ever be challenged as it's accepted worldwide
threenewpadlocks
Brownlow Medallist
Physical differences have a very minor difference relative to the two fender's quality if coaching, development and talent pool.
Compare the elite quality of coaching at TAC level (where many of these coaches go on to be AFL assistants/development coaches etc.) with the fact that many females stop playing footy at aged 12 or 14 than pick it up as adults again.
Then throw in the fact that these players are glorified local footballers in terms of their dedication to training and time spent in the game They're like your local division 1 team into he fact that most of their lives they've trained twice a week like most local footy clubs. AFL teams have the benefit of full time training and education and obviously even before they turn 18 they have things like overseas AIS training camps etc.
Then throw in the fact that the actual talent pool is smaller - simply less players to pick from.
No doubt even with equitable coaching and development and talent pool the women's players would be able to kick slightly less far etc. But at the same time, with 16-a-side footy and shorter games meaning teams try not to dominate possession it could be equally entertaining game.
If the talent pool was four times bigger lime it is for men, we'd have 4 Katie Brennan's, 4 Darcy Vescio's etc. Then give them even better coaching.
Nobody's denying that women's footy is made up of less physically superior athletes. But why don't you want and see the impact that these players returning to their local clubs and lifting the standard of training, AFL investment into elite and grassroots programmes (like the 1st ever girls TAC cup program this year etc.)and the simple fact that the talent pool is doubling every 5 years, before you pass judgement on the differences in quality of footy.
I don't think the ardent supporters of the league like myself have ever tried to claim it's pure, classical, skilled entertaining footy. But that's not the point - even the egalitarian political reasons aside I think it's fantastic to see something evolve and grow right in front of our eyes and to see how it contributes to the growth of the code of football at all levels as a whole.
I'm not sure if you followed the logical structure of my argument
What point are you trying to make? The paragraph is stream of consciousness nonsense
Crankyhawk
Brownlow Medallist
For what it is worth, I was talking to a friend who is a netball coach (he started out coaching his daughters), I asked him if he thought the AFLW was going to affect girls continuing netball, he thought it wouldn't, but had noticed that girls did both (apparently the schedules for netball and girls football don't clash, or instead of 3 netball games a week the girl does 2 and plays footy the other day). Those doing both became better netball players and better with body contact.
- May 13, 2012
- 15,812
- 5,965
- AFL Club
- GWS
- Other Teams
- Brumbies, Socceroos
You'd think playing footy and netball is more complimentary than playing footy and cricket, which blokes have done forever.
Given there's already a very close relationship between footy and netball, I think it's something both sports can encourage to their mutual advantage.
BringBackTorps
Club Legend
- Jan 5, 2017
- 2,963
- 1,827
- AFL Club
- GWS
"martial arts dont have participants limping or being carried off the floor like an AFL game does".
Really?
Do you approve of martial arts?
Deliberately trying to inflict maximum pain on your opponent?
Deliberately trying to hit your opponent in the head?
There is no comparison with AF.
External Inputs
Team Captain
I did, and I don't agree with your contention that the majority of parents that would object to their daughters playing AFL come from "non-sporting" households either.
There are many different types of martial arts, and nearly all are the non-contact variety. Even Tai Chi was originally a martial art. There are no deliberate hits to the head, because showing up to work the next day with a black eye, especially if you're in retail or customer service is generally frowned upon by employers. It's even worse for a woman. There are a lot of children and teenagers doing the various forms of martial arts, and it requires a high degree of fitness and coordination, especially at the top end of grading. Holds, blocks and throws require positioning and coordination, not strength, and there's a padded mat to fall on, so injuries are very rare.
Full contact martial arts exists, but you have to seek it out specifically, as its appeal is limited. There is no non-contact version of AFL, and the risk of injuries is much higher. Collingwood lost 4 players from their bench in their first game, and Meg Downie was stretchered off unconscious yesterday. Good luck convincing parents that injuries in AFL is just a perception.
The word I used was "disproportionately"....though I suspect the statement that you suggest I made is possibly true
My "scared parents produce awkward kids" is a bit tongue in cheek but, again, I suspect there is a bit of truth to it. Kids allowed to take some risks (including girls wanting to lay footy) are more likely to have the physical confidence of elite sportswomen than kids smothered by over protective parents
Noticed no mention of the Womens Rugby Codes, which are full contact sports. That does not stop Women playing and they get flattened, and coat hangered and get carried off.
Womens 15 a side Rugby Union has spread everywhere in the World, so according to some on here that should not be happening because of the contact.
Womens Rugby League play under full contact rules also- Just checkout the You Tube Videos. Those players look heavier and bulkier than AFLW.
The NRL is in the planning stages only for their Womens League. NRL Boss Todd Greenberg has said in the past that the NRL will not begin a women’s competition until there is a large enough talent pool to sustain it.
Some people prefer contact in their sport and others do not. This will be reflected eventually in how the AFLW playing numbers pan out.
Womens 15 a side Rugby Union has spread everywhere in the World, so according to some on here that should not be happening because of the contact.
Womens Rugby League play under full contact rules also- Just checkout the You Tube Videos. Those players look heavier and bulkier than AFLW.
The NRL is in the planning stages only for their Womens League. NRL Boss Todd Greenberg has said in the past that the NRL will not begin a women’s competition until there is a large enough talent pool to sustain it.
Some people prefer contact in their sport and others do not. This will be reflected eventually in how the AFLW playing numbers pan out.
- Status
