Collingwood’s Josh Thomas, Lachie Keeffe accept two-year bans for taking banned drug clenbuterol

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Gavstar said:
So you think its smart to turn down Cronulla-like bans and missing one finals series instead of blowing up your footy club and your career for 3 years and counting?

Especially when to quote your Chairman "There is too much knowledge he (Stephen Dank) knows that we don’t know". Players don't KNOW they are innocent all they can do is HOPE they are innocent. How do you think the two players whose urine appears to contain externally administered abnormal TB4 levels feel?

To quote Kenny Rodgers

"You've got to know when to hold 'em
Know when to fold 'em
Know when to walk away
Know when to run
You never count your money
When you're sittin' at the table
There'll be time enough for countin'
When the dealin's done"
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Spot on!

Gees the bummers fans are a laugh a minute!

Yep innocent! The last 3 ******* messed up years were all about nothing! The lack of documentation, the unexplained invoices, the secrecy, the walks across the road, the hush hush forms signed by the players, yep all just a fantasy in the minds of the AFL! If only you were not warned by the stupid inept fat controller, I wonder if those records would be found! Self reporting! Self reporting what if your innocent?

The AFL is the last business who would have all this out there, if there wasn't something in it. They have done their very best to sweep it under the carpet.

Oh and anyway, i believe we are even now, 2 positive tests each! Cheers
 
LukeParkerno1 said:
It is called being smart. Bans could have been backdated. You miss a season, so what. You do an ACL you miss a season, no difference. Instead continue to play and you can still cop 2 years. That is silly.
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So, you choose to cop an ACL injury, endure pain, and miss a lot of footy even though there was a chance you can avoid the injury. Not to mention you don't get labelled as 'filth' for the rest of your career if you do an ACL. What a shocking comparison.
 

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So just read the players think an illicit (recreational) drug they took contained it...seriously what bloody crock...yeah sure the criminals that made their pingas thought they may as well add expensive and relatively hard to source body building drugs to them. I'd give them an extra year for that crap...
 
House_of_Dahl said:
So just read the players think an illicit (recreational) drug they took contained it...seriously what bloody crock...yeah sure the criminals that made their pingas thought they may as well add expensive and relatively hard to source body building drugs to them. I'd give them an extra year for that crap...
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Spot on house
 
Gone Critical said:
Clen is a fat stripping agent, believed to have no anabolic effects in humans (may have some in animals). Cut with Coke fits the picture best. If they wanted drugs to beef up with they picked a dud.

Story is believable. They had no wriggle room with it and had to get 2 years. Not sure whats not to believe.
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Odd then, the number of cyclists who get caught with clen in their system. Some have got away with wild tales of how it got there. Some have not. But sure as shite it pops up a lot among the most notorious dopers in world sport.
 
House_of_Dahl said:
So just read the players think an illicit (recreational) drug they took contained it...seriously what bloody crock...yeah sure the criminals that made their pingas thought they may as well add expensive and relatively hard to source body building drugs to them. I'd give them an extra year for that crap...
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Thing is, it's true. Especially coke, it's laced with clenbuterol quite often. I find it hard to believe why they'd admit to taking an illicit drug if it weren't true; public shame is greater for illicit drugs than PEDs. I feel that this is the exact wake-up call that all the soft-ass chairmen need to get serious about tackling the issue of illegal drugs in the AFL community.
 

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Gollo said:
Thing is, it's true. Especially coke, it's laced with clenbuterol quite often. I find it hard to believe why they'd admit to taking an illicit drug if it weren't true; public shame is greater for illicit drugs than PEDs. I feel that this is the exact wake-up call that all the soft-ass chairmen need to get serious about tackling the issue of illegal drugs in the AFL community.
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Really? Are there sources for this? I did a quick search and could only find one story which appears entirely based off one player busted for it in 2009 who claimed it was probably cut with an illicit drug...seems pretty flimsy.

Same story has Doc Larkins correcting them to say that the city gym scene is where it's found.

Pretty sure anyone making or selling coke is doing it for money. Why bother sourcing this anabolic drug to cut it with? And why not sell it to the gym junkies if they already had it and cut the coke with something cheap?

Pretty naive to think players wouldn't prefer to get busted with coke. Yeah that might make them stupid in some eyes, party animals or even cool in other eyes. But a proffesional sports person deliberately taking performance enhancing drugs equals a cheater to nearly everyone.


This was the story I found
http://m.3aw.com.au/news/collingwood-drug-scandal-how-you-can-get-clenbuterol-20150330-1mbjkz.html
 
jenny61_99 said:
If they took an illicit drug, shouldn't they be charge by the police for doing so?
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I'm sure the cops are lining up to charge 2 blokes for doing some blow....
 
House_of_Dahl said:
So just read the players think an illicit (recreational) drug they took contained it...seriously what bloody crock...yeah sure the criminals that made their pingas thought they may as well add expensive and relatively hard to source body building drugs to them. I'd give them an extra year for that crap...
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Idiot.

Really?

Relatively hard to source? Expensive?
 
Will these guys be getting tested while they are are away for this ban ?
 
the PILL said:
I tend to agree more with the post you quoted... Standard Bulking science...

There is zero reason to cut a stimulant with a PED like Clenbuterol, zero!... it makes no sense accept to make it more publicly palatable...

Personally I'm suprised it slid by so easy to the public which makes me more annoyed at the excuse than the infraction TBH...
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I don't often post in these forums but there is a lot of pseudo science and misinformation being thrown around these forums about Clenbuterol.

I have a medical background and have had a look into some of the evidence behind Clenbuterol and performance enhancement.

First off Clenbuterol is an oral beta-2 agonist. At it's core, although with varied pharmacokinetics, it has similar properties as Salbutamol or Ventolin as it is more commonly known. Ventolin is used for it's bronchodilator effect, that is opening of the smooth muscle in the airways to help with breathing during asthma flares. The benefits of a puffer is that it has localised action with minimal systemic effect. However, most people who have had Ventolin would recognise there is some systemic absorption that manifests as tachycardia or feelings of agitation. Clenbuterol has this effect on a systemic level creating a sympathomimetic effect that is quite similar to that of cocaine. This includes tachycardia, heightened levels of anxiety and increased basal metabolic rate. Given this I'm not why it's so difficult to understand why it would be cut with cocaine to mimic or propagate its effects.

Furthermore, Clenbuterol is used mainly for management of asthma in horses, as the coordination required for effective inhalation of inhaled beta-agonists would make it impractical as a management tool. As I'm sure you can appreciate this makes it not only legal in Australia but readily accessible for anyone that has contacts in either the horse racing industry or veterinary clinics but also large quantities given equine dosing is substantial compared to that in humans. Cocaine on the other hand comes exclusively from the coca plant and therefore must be imported from regions such as South America. Pragmatically you can imagine why it would be easier to cut with Clenbuterol then to access large amounts of cocaine.

Finally, discussing Clenbuterol as a performance enhancer for athletes is not as clear cut as it may seem. Although it is proven to have some anabolic effects in certain muscle groups within different species, there is limited proof that this directly leads to performance enhancement. I found one trial in 1995 that concluded it could not confirm muscle enhancement in young men or athletic performance enhancement in young men. There have also been studies that it does not increase performance in horses but actually decreases aerobic capabilities. I will post links to these studies below. Although the animal model is not direct, the ethics of control trials in humans means we might see the testing required to give us a good answer. Having said that its potential to promote muscle growth is definitely enough to warrant a ban on WADAs list.

So given this, it makes a lot of sense to cut Clenbuterol with cocaine. The way the Collingwood team handled this situation I actually found to be very open, accountable and professional. Maybe it's this that is so 'unpalatable' for certain football fans.

Links:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/7711351/

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/12471305
 
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