Collingwood’s Josh Thomas, Lachie Keeffe accept two-year bans for taking banned drug clenbuterol

[the_interloper]

Thanks for the ACC link, it's quite interesting to read how much some of this stuff is worth.

Cocaine is about $250-1000 a gram so it could be quite economical to cut it with Clenbuterol if you want to enhance the effects of the drug while minimising the product.

More economical to cut it with Glucodin, I smell bullshit with this story.

 

[Cake Walker]

$7k.

That's $7,000

Is that extrapolated using the dose of Clenbuterol in a tablet? The doses of beta agonists are calculated in micrograms, that's the amount required for physical and effect. So 20mcg or 0.00002g is enough to produce the effects.

The weight of the physical tablets is much more than that. The tablet is what you would be cutting with the cocaine, not the pure chemical of Clenbuterol.

If it is $7000 a tablet I feel bad for the owners of asthmatic horses...

 

[PicaBoo]

are you kidding me? Didn't he deliver a lengthy diatribe about how "any" drug could contain PEDs?

IMHO it's blatantly obvious what's going on here and it's 100% PR.

The boys took their gear to get in shape, as you do. That's what Clem's for, let's face it. Got done. A very hasty war meeting between various parties formulated the coke story, it was road-tested if you'll recall, got serious traction. From that moment on they ran with it hard. Serves 3 purposes.

1) gives the players public sympathy and best chance at a fresh start when they've done their time

2) keeps the AFL out of the papers for yet another PED scandal

3) allows them to crack down further on illicit drugs and reduce bad press of strikes etc by using a boogie man of them ("any drug") being mixed with PEDs that players are terrified about, so they actually have consequences, even if it's a load of crap in reality

They have been tested positive. That is the only thing we can be sure off.
All you can add is speculation and it doesn't help you got a tin foil hat on to suit your agenda.
You're claiming that despite or maybe as result of the off season training camp, they decided to take PED's? "As you do". So who else does that apart from the complete EFC.
It is not that their place on the playing list was under threat or the PED's would improve that position. Explain ,why should they do that as I am missing the blatantly obvious.
As for the rest . To concoct a story that can't be verified and will never give closure , would be the least favorable explanation for the results from a PR view.
The AFL would be well advised not take the word from a club or player for granted. Documents and suporting evidence go missing way too easily.

 

[Chameleon75]

I'm not ignoring it, you said Clenbuterol is $7 a gram. The ACC website you quoted says cocaine is between $250-1000 a gram depending on location. Unless you've quoted me an incorrect figure on the Clenbuterol, I'm not sure where you're getting that from?

you miss read, I said $7k/g

from acc

https://www.crimecommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/iddr-2010-11-other-drugs.pdf

For clenbuterol in liquid form, the price ranges from $130 to $160 for 10 millilitres.
In raw powder form—clenbuterol hydrochloride—prices ranged between $900 for. 50 milligrams to $3 500 for 500 milligrams in Queensland.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

Is that extrapolated using the dose of Clenbuterol in a tablet? The doses of beta agonists are calculated in micrograms, that's the amount required for physical and effect. So 20mcg or 0.00002g is enough to produce the effects.

The weight of the physical tablets is much more than that. The tablet is what you would be cutting with the cocaine, not the pure chemical of Clenbuterol.

If it is $7000 a tablet I feel bad for the owners of asthmatic horses...

I don't really care how it's extrapolated frankly. If that is the estimate of what its worth on the black market to body builders it's a simple equation. You're focusing on cost, not profit.

Powder it up or do whatever the * and sell it to body builders for $7k per kg, or use it to cut coke for vastly less, when there are much cheaper options available, including other ones that can simulate effects of cocaine

 

[Furn2]

I'd bet anything these guys were straight up doping, everyone has an excuse that gets caught.

 

[Lance Uppercut]

I'd bet anything these guys were straight up doping, everyone has an excuse that gets caught.

it's much more palatable for the public to think they were innocent. See Ahmed Saad

 

[MagpieJo]

$7k.

That's $7,000

it's much more palatable for the public to think they were innocent. See Ahmed Saad

or EFC

 

[Furn2]

it's much more palatable for the public to think they were innocent. See Ahmed Saad

Exactly they are the innocent victims now, who juts made a silly decision instead of blatant cheats, no way are they getting re-rookied if they admitted to doping, amazing how everyone in the industry and media is buying it though.

 

[Better Loosen Up]

Wow, the top hit that comes up when you Google “clenbuterol”

I see you went to Google University too. Were you in IanW’s class?

Ian's the lecturer

 

[jenny61_99]

Exactly they are the innocent victims now, who juts made a silly decision instead of blatant cheats, no way are they getting re-rookied if they admitted to doping, amazing how everyone in the industry and media is buying it though.

It's actually quite embarrassing.

 

[Belnakor]

Exactly they are the innocent victims now, who juts made a silly decision instead of blatant cheats, no way are they getting re-rookied if they admitted to doping, amazing how everyone in the industry and media is buying it though.

i doubt many in the industry are buying it.

collingwood are obligated to keep them on since it is only a matter of time until a top player gets nailed and they don't want to establish a "boot them out" mentality.

 

[Cake Walker]

you miss read, I said $7k/g

from acc

https://www.crimecommission.gov.au/sites/default/files/iddr-2010-11-other-drugs.pdf

For clenbuterol in liquid form, the price ranges from $130 to $160 for 10 millilitres.
In raw powder form—clenbuterol hydrochloride—prices ranged between $900 for. 50 milligrams to $3 500 for 500 milligrams in Queensland.

So for 50mg of powder that's the equivalent to 2500 20mcg tablets. That seems pretty cheap to me. The power of maths. My point is you'd cut it with the tablets to give volume to the cocaine powder, not incredibly high doses of raw product.

 

[Chameleon75]

So for 50mg of powder that's the equivalent to 2500 20mcg tablets. That seems pretty cheap to me. The power of maths. My point is you'd cut it with the tablets to give volume to the cocaine powder, not incredibly high doses of raw product.

so your proposing that in order to maximise profit you would sell something for 1/7th of the price rather than sell it at full price to bodybuilders

 

[Cake Walker]

so your proposing that in order to maximise profit you would sell something for 1/7th of the price rather than sell it at full price to bodybuilders

I'm proposing using a cheap drug to supplement a more expensive one while making the expensive one seem more effective at a margin of the cost

 

[Chameleon75]

I'm proposing using a cheap drug to supplement a more expensive one while making the expensive one seem more effective at a margin of the cost

your maths doesn't add up

 

[PoppedCorn]

someone break it down so dumb asses can understand it
now im not sure if its cost effective or not ffs

 

[blackcat]

i doubt many in the industry are buying it.

collingwood are obligated to keep them on since it is only a matter of time until a top player gets nailed and they don't want to establish a "boot them out" mentality.

wrong

professional sport always had zero problems with dual standards. they will be expedient and cut you loose if you are of no value.

what value do OKeefe or Keefe and Thomas have?

poison pill/ graymail. They know where the bodies are buried. a little like why Hird was not so willing to go quietly. He justified, it was on in all in at Essendon, and the entire AFL are on it. AFL House and hq know it, so why should one person be a scapegoat. And in Krudds trope of asking oneself the rhetorical question, do I have empathy for this thinking by Hird? And in the Krudd device, "yes I do, I have empathy for Hird's position".

 

[DERIBERATE]

Exactly they are the innocent victims now, who juts made a silly decision instead of blatant cheats, no way are they getting re-rookied if they admitted to doping, amazing how everyone in the industry and media is buying it though.

Have you thought through all the scenarios? Football is a 10 year career if you're lucky. You still have another 30 working years after that. How many doors do you close by admitting to being a coke user on national television? As opposed to admitting doping and risking another 5 years in football?

 

[PieBeast]

Thanks for the ACC link, it's quite interesting to read how much some of this stuff is worth.

Cocaine is about $250-1000 a gram so it could be quite economical to cut it with Clenbuterol if you want to enhance the effects of the drug while minimising the product.

On the contrary, your calculations are completely out of whack.

 

[Smokeyr67]

If you're going to take drugs, make sure your dealer is WADA certified.

Not that silly an idea - a lot of young cashed up guys would love to let their hair down knowing that they only risk a strike and not a 2 year no expenses paid holiday.

 

[SterlingArcher]

"In my policing days, from time to time, we would examine ecstasy tablets and things like that, and you would find all sorts of veterinary substances in them. They were cut with cement, all sorts of substances, so there's no quality control,"

thats his direct quote, the reference to clen was added by the journo, not by McD

worth having a look at the acc website and the reports into various drugs and their street prices, acc price pure clen at around $7k/g, not really economic as a bulking agent

I think the point the other poster is trying to make, regardless of whether their maths suits or not, is that Clen is not being added in any large quantities and not in pure form (hypothetically assuming it is - I have no idea of its likelihood), so the 7k/g figure is not really all that relevant

 

[DERIBERATE]

I think the point the other poster is trying to make, regardless of whether their maths suits or not, is that Clen is not being added in any large quantities and not in pure form (hypothetically assuming it is - I have no idea of its likelihood), so the 7k/g figure is not really all that relevant

Exactly. Drugs are cut to increase volume and margin. If the substance has additional properties then you've got a thinking man's dealer. They don't pluck out the atoms of the active ingredient and cut with a 100% mix.

 

[SterlingArcher]

You realise this isnt Breaking Bad. These guys didnt have Chemistry degrees and are not science boffs. Half of them would struggle to find their own arse with both hands. I dont profess any great knowledge of the drug world but I live just off Victoria St Richmond and see plenty of these MENSA types plying their trade on any given day. I find it easy to believe they could be stupid.

Keeffe and Thomas could have been stupid also, monumentally so if they knowingly took Clen with its virtual no benefit policy for them and the clear and obvious reasons why it was a major risk. On balance the dumb drug dealer seems easier to swallow.

Also I am not a great one for the conspiracy theories. 2 dumb footballers dabble in PEDs outside club supervision seems a much easier sell than lets concoct an untrue story and all those associated risks that may come back to bite us just to save a bit of face for Thomas and Keeffe. Just cant see the AFL and Colingwoods motivation for that. If its just the 2 boys concocting the story then Pies and the AFL would have to accept that version and move on. No conspiracy involved there.

Well, I tend to agree, but I feel as though the AFL and Pies would be much happier selling it off as "two young guys take party drugs in off-season" than "two young guys deliberately cheat".

 

[The 747]

it's much more palatable for the public to think they were innocent. See Ahmed Saad

No offence but also that they were duped by a rogue scientist is more palatable for the public. You may have already hit that somewhere back ITT.