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Competitions Collingwood All Time Draft

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Trickster said:
With the 194th, and my final, pick I choose Percy Gibb as my winger to complete my side. He played 157 games as a 'mature' 21 year old recruit from 1905 to 1914.

He was hot property having played at Richmond in the VFA and we were able to secure his services ahead of Fitzroy. He made an instant impact playing every game and being among our best players most weeks.

He played wing the whole time and was dubbed a speed merchant even 20 years after retiring. How's this for a description of him:

“Gibb tears around the wing with the happiness of a boarding school lassie out for an airing,” wrote Punch in 1907. “When he secures the bag of hot air he makes straight for the gaudily-coloured uprights and never stops to pluck daisies.”

Hard to bypass him for that description alone.

Along with Jock McHale (who I had to move to HBF such is my midfield depth) other wingers Sadler then Jackson, Gibb formed an imposing centre line for the Pies. He played in the 1910 flag having a great year but lifted his game further in 1912 where some thought he was the best in the league. Fittingly, Collingwood retrospectively named him best player for that year.

If that first 'lassie' description isn't good enough, it gets even better as he had 2 brothers who played as well, and quite amusingly, they were termed the Brothers Gibb! Sure they had the other Gibb's covered in terms of football ability but perhaps not vocally!

Upon retiring, he served on the committee for another 19 years.

That rounds up my team. I like the suggestion earlier for all of us to give a detailed spiel on each team but as a short summary here, I'll say I have absolute superstars and legends across every line. This starts with a brilliant but miserly defence who would be a nightmare for any forward line but would provide great rebound and dash, an on-ball / midfield brigade that is simply brilliant and who would give silver service to the dangerous forwards (which resembles a current day sharing the load type set up) to surely kick a winning score. And that's before even going into the premierships or individual accolades that these players have won. We don't have a coach named, but the bloke on the hbf can double up!

View attachment 1274116
Have absolutely loved this and it's with more than a touch of sadness that my team is now complete!

It's over to Tarkyn_24 for your final pick.
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Looked at him for my final wing spot too, looks a gem.
 
Tarkyn_24 said:
I’ve really battled with this last selection, but in the end I’ve gone for output and proven performance in the very few games this player played in black and white, understanding of course that their Collingwood record does not stack up due to their short tenure.

Dermott Brereton came to Collingwood and played second fiddle to a young Sav Rocca after a highly successful and fruitful career as one of the best players of his time at Hawthorn. While past his prime, he still managed to average two goals a game, failing to trouble the scorers on just three occasions while also posting bags of 5 and 4. He also managed two Brownlow votes from his stint at Collingwood. Given he was a sideshow to the developing Rocca in our forwardline, his record actually stacks up incredibly favourably to other alternatives.

Other players I considered with this selection were Craig Stewart (whose bio introduces him as having failed at centre half forward), Starcevich (a proven finals player, and member of the 1990 Premiership team) and Mason Cox (another finals performer who, when on song, was a unique, dominant proposition) but at the end of the day, Dermott, even in his twilight year, was still a dominant proposition despite taking a back seat and developing his younger teammates.
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Good pick - I was strongly considering him for my last. 30 goals from 15 games was a good return, and in the right team where there was a need for some grunt work to take the focus off another star forward or two, he is a terrific selection.
 
Posting my team to get an idea of how it would look and play. Would love any feedback.

FB: John Henderson - James Clement - Gordon Hocking
HB: Nick Maxwell - Ted Potter - Frank Tuck
C: Charlie Pannam Jr. - Scott Russell - Tom Drummond
HF: Doug Barwick - Saverio Rocca - Mal Seddon
FF: Paul Medhurst - Ian Brewer - Jack Pimm
FOLL: Ray Gabelich - Harry Collier - Dane Swan

I'm quite happy with the way it all turned out. Numerous favourite players of mine taken right from under my nose, but that's the name of the game! I really like how my backline and midfield have turned out, and I think the versatility I've got in guys like Henderson, Hocking and Clement would allow for lots of different looks. Collier, Swan and Russell at the centre bounces is something I'm really happy with, and I think that would be a real difference maker for me.

Really have loved putting this team together. Lots of players I'd never heard of before (Pimm, Seddon, Tuck, Drummond) and a few guys I'd heard dad idolise (Gabelich, Potter, Henderson) without knowing anything myself. Such an awesome learning experience. Also been great to talk Pies history with fellow lunatic supporters ;)
 
gouki88 said:
Posting my team to get an idea of how it would look and play. Would love any feedback.

FB: John Henderson - James Clement - Gordon Hocking
HB: Nick Maxwell - Ted Potter - Frank Tuck
C: Charlie Pannam Jr. - Scott Russell - Tom Drummond
HF: Doug Barwick - Saverio Rocca - Mal Seddon
FF: Paul Medhurst - Ian Brewer - Jack Pimm
FOLL: Ray Gabelich - Harry Collier - Dane Swan

I'm quite happy with the way it all turned out. Numerous favourite players of mine taken right from under my nose, but that's the name of the game! I really like how my backline and midfield have turned out, and I think the versatility I've got in guys like Henderson, Hocking and Clement would allow for lots of different looks. Collier, Swan and Russell at the centre bounces is something I'm really happy with, and I think that would be a real difference maker for me.

Really have loved putting this team together. Lots of players I'd never heard of before (Pimm, Seddon, Tuck, Drummond) and a few guys I'd heard dad idolise (Gabelich, Potter, Henderson) without knowing anything myself. Such an awesome learning experience. Also been great to talk Pies history with fellow lunatic supporters ;)
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Incredibly strong team, it’s going to be tough to judge. Perhaps we can vote on top of expert judging. I’m particularly jealous of Jane’s Clement in your backline!
 

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magpies42 said:
Incredibly strong team, it’s going to be tough to judge. Perhaps we can vote on top of expert judging. I’m particularly jealous of Jane’s Clement in your backline!
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I'm going to overlook you calling him Jane Clement ;) Thanks!

I think voting on top would be fun too - mainly just to see! The margins are so narrow with all the teams, so I think we'd see some really different results.
 
Jelly Bean said:
Good pick - I was strongly considering him for my last. 30 goals from 15 games was a good return, and in the right team where there was a need for some grunt work to take the focus off another star forward or two, he is a terrific selection.
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Yeah it’s a tough one to measure - impact and results in a short time vs output and consistency over the long term.

I weighed up Stephenson and Krakouer as options in a similar kind of cost benefit analysis but found options I preferred. In this instance the only alternatives were really solid to good options, options that didn’t fit the positional mould or options that were exceptional but had their own flaws. I figured the chances someone else would take Derm were slim and there was no other genuine alternative available to me so was happy to make that call despite his modest games tally.

It really does give an insight into how difficult the drafting business is, and we have the benefit of hindsight, full careers and generous player profile (thanks to Michael Roberts and the other wonderful contributors on Collingwood Forever) to work with.

Very grateful to hear I wasn’t the only one considering players of this ilk by the end of the draft though.
 
All the teams are fantastic! Once all teams are finalised, I'm looking at adding some (high level) stats too on players and see how that compares across all our teams. Just another fun thing to do and a different way of looking at it.
 
Trickster said:
All the teams are fantastic! Once all teams are finalised, I'm looking at adding some (high level) stats too on players and see how that compares across all our teams. Just another fun thing to do and a different way of looking at it.
Click to expand...
If we could measure the teams on floaters kicked to nobody in particular that would be great.

Wakelin and Brown kill it at that stat
 
To those of us who are feeling a little sad that this is close to wrapped up, just remember there are still a few things that will be happening in this thread to keep the discussion alive.

- I'll spend a bit of time just formatting some of the teams from the great spreadsheet Trickster has been maintaining into posts that Michael will reply to.
- Michael will then reply to those posts with some of his observations of the teams in order of our selection ordering, e.g. raymond25 first, etc). This will be drip fed over a period of time as Michael does them (not all at once), so make sure you stay engaged if your team hasn't been reviewed yet
- Once all have been commented on, Michael will announce the two 'grand finallists' and ultimately the 'premier' from his perspective.
- As a potential bonus (although not wanting to take too much of Michael's time given how generous he has been to participate to this point) we might be able to see if Michael will do the process that was suggested earlier, where we see what Michael's team might be (E.g. he take the place of Raymond, and picks his own team based on the players that are available at the point that Raymond had picks). This would be EXTREMELY fascinating to see!
 
Jelly Bean said:
To those of us who are feeling a little sad that this is close to wrapped up, just remember there are still a few things that will be happening in this thread to keep the discussion alive.

- I'll spend a bit of time just formatting some of the teams from the great spreadsheet Trickster has been maintaining into posts that Michael will reply to.
- Michael will then reply to those posts with some of his observations of the teams in order of our selection ordering, e.g. raymond25 first, etc). This will be drip fed over a period of time as Michael does them (not all at once), so make sure you stay engaged if your team hasn't been reviewed yet
- Once all have been commented on, Michael will announce the two 'grand finallists' and ultimately the 'premier' from his perspective.
- As a potential bonus (although not wanting to take too much of Michael's time given how generous he has been to participate to this point) we might be able to see if Michael will do the process that was suggested earlier, where we see what Michael's team might be (E.g. he take the place of Raymond, and picks his own team based on the players that are available at the point that Raymond had picks). This would be EXTREMELY fascinating to see!
Click to expand...
If only this commenced at the beginning of lockdown, would have been a riveting time. Good stuff
 
Pies 4 Life FC

B: Tom Langdon - Harry Saunders - Jack Murphy
HB: Max Richardson - Paddy Rowan - Syd Coventry (c)
C: Des Healey - Wayne Richardson - Mick McGuane
HF: Tarkyn Lockyer - Anthony Rocca - Brodie Holland
F: Percy Rowe - Dick Lee - Terry Waters
R: Arthur Leach - Taylor Adams - Shane O’Bree

This is how I ended up finishing off. Heading into the draft as I previously mentioned, my focus was around building a team that had different strengths and could hypothetically fit without being too much of one type. I also tried to balance the difference between our far past, and more recent players, to avoid recency bias, which is always tricky.

For me the key was good ball users and for 90% of the players likely to have the ball in their hands regularly, they could do just that. The use of my centreline - Healey, the Richardson and McGuane - along with Lockyer in particular, were all great ball users and I feel that the run coming out of defence and going forward would just do that. Whilst I can't say I saw too many of the older players, I did back what Michael said via Collingwood Forever to try and find players who were skilful players, and preferably good mark. Contested players - or those who were competitive - were also high on my agenda.

Once I'd built the skilful outside players, I needed those who would get their hands dirty, which is why I brought in Adams and O'Bree. Their clean hands and disposal in close (not accounting kicking) is what would release those more skilful players to be able to drive the ball forward and hit the required targets. Having these players is just as crucial as the skilful ones as it allows the skilful ones to do their best work.

From a ruck perspective, once I missed out on the top few rucks, I realised there was not a great deal between the next 5-6 so I figured I could try and pick up a good value ruck late, which I did with Arthur Leach, and Percy Rowe - who really became a predominant ruck but had the versatility to play other roles, could rotate with him.

In defence, Syd Coventry is clearly one of our best players of all time and a fantastic leader, which is why he would be captain of the side. The likes of Rowan and Saunders would take the big boy forwards and they were both able to mark and compete well, whilst Langdon could do a dual role of offence/defence. Murphy would be that smaller lockdown defender who could still provide run, whilst Richardson would be the rebounder using his terrific skill to exit the back 50.

Up forward, Dick Lee is the centrepiece at full-forward, with Rowe protecting him as he did Gordon Coventry in the 1928 Grand Final. Terry Waters provides a slightly different forward target, whilst Pebbles is that crash-and-bash key forward, perfect for the centre half-forward role. The half-forward positions were ones I left until last, and even then, had pegged Lockyer for a back pocket, but felt Langdon was better than any half-forwards left. I feel that role when only picking 18 players, is probably the last to do, because midfielders can roll through there. Had we been picking a bench, I may well have picked one more specialist forward, but both Lockyer and Holland spent significant time there and were permanent forwards in different seasons.

Overall I feel my team would be a really great "team". Is it the best in this thread? Not sure, there's just so many awesome sides. I just wanted one that I could have fun with and really picture playing alongside each other. I love skilful running players, and that's what I went for, and got a fair few of.

Hopefully others like this team, as I'm happy with how it eventuated, and if it doesn't win that's okay, I think everyone is deserving of victory, so kudos to everyone.
 
Pie 4 Life said:
Pies 4 Life FC

B: Tom Langdon - Harry Saunders - Jack Murphy
HB: Max Richardson - Paddy Rowan - Syd Coventry (c)
C: Des Healey - Wayne Richardson - Mick McGuane
HF: Tarkyn Lockyer - Anthony Rocca - Brodie Holland
F: Percy Rowe - Dick Lee - Terry Waters
R: Arthur Leach - Taylor Adams - Shane O’Bree

This is how I ended up finishing off. Heading into the draft as I previously mentioned, my focus was around building a team that had different strengths and could hypothetically fit without being too much of one type. I also tried to balance the difference between our far past, and more recent players, to avoid recency bias, which is always tricky.

For me the key was good ball users and for 90% of the players likely to have the ball in their hands regularly, they could do just that. The use of my centreline - Healey, the Richardson and McGuane - along with Lockyer in particular, were all great ball users and I feel that the run coming out of defence and going forward would just do that. Whilst I can't say I saw too many of the older players, I did back what Michael said via Collingwood Forever to try and find players who were skilful players, and preferably good mark. Contested players - or those who were competitive - were also high on my agenda.

Once I'd built the skilful outside players, I needed those who would get their hands dirty, which is why I brought in Adams and O'Bree. Their clean hands and disposal in close (not accounting kicking) is what would release those more skilful players to be able to drive the ball forward and hit the required targets. Having these players is just as crucial as the skilful ones as it allows the skilful ones to do their best work.

From a ruck perspective, once I missed out on the top few rucks, I realised there was not a great deal between the next 5-6 so I figured I could try and pick up a good value ruck late, which I did with Arthur Leach, and Percy Rowe - who really became a predominant ruck but had the versatility to play other roles, could rotate with him.

In defence, Syd Coventry is clearly one of our best players of all time and a fantastic leader, which is why he would be captain of the side. The likes of Rowan and Saunders would take the big boy forwards and they were both able to mark and compete well, whilst Langdon could do a dual role of offence/defence. Murphy would be that smaller lockdown defender who could still provide run, whilst Richardson would be the rebounder using his terrific skill to exit the back 50.

Up forward, Dick Lee is the centrepiece at full-forward, with Rowe protecting him as he did Gordon Coventry in the 1928 Grand Final. Terry Waters provides a slightly different forward target, whilst Pebbles is that crash-and-bash key forward, perfect for the centre half-forward role. The half-forward positions were ones I left until last, and even then, had pegged Lockyer for a back pocket, but felt Langdon was better than any half-forwards left. I feel that role when only picking 18 players, is probably the last to do, because midfielders can roll through there. Had we been picking a bench, I may well have picked one more specialist forward, but both Lockyer and Holland spent significant time there and were permanent forwards in different seasons.

Overall I feel my team would be a really great "team". Is it the best in this thread? Not sure, there's just so many awesome sides. I just wanted one that I could have fun with and really picture playing alongside each other. I love skilful running players, and that's what I went for, and got a fair few of.

Hopefully others like this team, as I'm happy with how it eventuated, and if it doesn't win that's okay, I think everyone is deserving of victory, so kudos to everyone.
Click to expand...
This is a brilliant summary of why you reached for Tarks, but what about the other seventeen players? ;)
 

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I will move Bill Twomey Snr to a HFF changing with Fothergill and put this bloke on the wing. With my final pick I will take Bruce Abernathy. A thumping kick who only finished 4 votes off a Brownlow medal. His kicking an asset for BT up forward. So my team. Collier at CHB is arguably the greatest CHB to play the game and Murphy at CHF stands with Weid as out greatest CHF ever. That is 10 Premiership between my CHF and CHB. These two won matches. A tough as hell backline with Hamilton, Collier and Banks striking fear into any forward line. Dummett was up there with the best defenders of his time. These 4 went where angels fear to tread. Rumney speaks for himself with 5 flags and a team of the century guernsey and Morwood was silk. Fothergill in the guts changing with Bill Twomey Snr provide perhaps two of our 4 most skilled players in the history of our club. Wright and Abernathy on the wings could break lines and win games. A forward line built on stars with Curtis, Lockwood. Twomey, Twomey and BT providing an avalanche of goals. A mix of skill, aerial freakishness goals sense and toughness. Add Desy Fothergill peppering the scoring sheet and this team would bombard the goals. Ronnie Wearmouth is so under rated and Libbis let us not forget is the rover who kept Harry Collier out of the starting rover position in 4 Premierships. Darren Jolly could win flags and would tower over most of the other ruckmen. Twomey in the pocket can change with him.
This backline is premiership winning and would be near impossible to score against.
 
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Tarkyn_24 said:
I’ve really battled with this last selection, but in the end I’ve gone for output and proven performance in the very few games this player played in black and white, understanding of course that their Collingwood record does not stack up due to their short tenure.

Dermott Brereton came to Collingwood and played second fiddle to a young Sav Rocca after a highly successful and fruitful career as one of the best players of his time at Hawthorn. While past his prime, he still managed to average two goals a game, failing to trouble the scorers on just three occasions while also posting bags of 5 and 4. He also managed two Brownlow votes from his stint at Collingwood. Given he was a sideshow to the developing Rocca in our forwardline, his record actually stacks up incredibly favourably to other alternatives.

Other players I considered with this selection were Craig Stewart (whose bio introduces him as having failed at centre half forward), Starcevich (a proven finals player, and member of the 1990 Premiership team) and Mason Cox (another finals performer who, when on song, was a unique, dominant proposition) but at the end of the day, Dermott, even in his twilight year, was still a dominant proposition despite taking a back seat and developing his younger teammates.
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Good pick, and yup, thats who I was referring to in my previous post! Of course I fully understand why he wasn't picked earlier cause he isnt really one of us (though I agree his season for us was pretty good and instrumental in big Sav kicking 90. But he was an absolute champion. FWIW, Id choose him as my best CHF of players Ive seen. Yes, many could argue that Carey or Hart were better, but if its a Grand Final Id go with Dermie every time (I didn't think Careys games in PdFs and GFs were all that great)
 
Mark W said:
Yes, many could argue that Carey or Hart were better, but if its a Grand Final Id go with Dermie every time (I didn't think Careys games in PFs and GFs were all that great)
Click to expand...

I hate to stick up for the man, but Carey's PF in 1994 is one of the all time great finals performances IMO.
 
With my final pick, I select a player who has to rank as an absolute steal if we hold true the principle of the player being assessed against their peer group. Former captain of Carlton, this player was traded to Collingwood, and immediately took their game to the next level, and the results followed.

The honour roll reads extremely well in just three seasons to date:
- Collingwood best and fairest winner
- Collingwood co-captain (after captaining Carlton prior)
- All Australian selection (twice) most recently as ruck rover
- All Australian Captain
- Awarded Best Player in the League

Welcome to my team Brianna Davey. As I mentioned, if we are true to the policy of selecting against the peer group, Brianna would undoubtedly be a top 60ish selection. I select her as ruck rover, shifting Greening out to a wing to tear up teams in transition.

Backs: Bob Nash, Gary Pert; Mick Gayfer;
Half Back: Jack Monohan; Len Fitzgerald; Dan Minogue (C)
Centre: Dick Condon; Fred Leach; John Greening
Half Forward: Nick Davis; David Cloke; Charlie Pannam Sr
Forward: Andy Krakouer; Gordon Coventry; Frank Hailwood
Followers: Damien Monkhorst; Brianna Davey; Des Tuddenham (VC)

My observations on my team:
While a number of the names will be new to people, I feel I have mostly players who were all considered in the best few at their position for their era. I've got three ;League Best' award equivalents, e.g. Champions of the Colony/AFLW B&F (Condon, Leach, Davey), and two Collingwood ToC (Coventry and Tuddenham), and a few players who didn't play much for Collingwood for one reason or another, but in their games for us showed their enormous talent (Fitzgerald, Minogue, Leach, Davis, D Cloke, Krakouer, and of course Greening).

It is plain to see that I have gone heavy on the midfield, with star players through the centreline and the following division being an early focus, and there is some real toughness there in Monky, Davey, and Tuddenham to complement the magic of Greening, Leach, Condon. There is going to be a lot of inside 50 ball coming from that part of the ground. In this segment of the ground alone I have two Champions of the Colony (Condon and Leach), a League B&F winner (Davey), and a Collingwood Team of the Century player (Tuddenham). And on top of that i have Greening.

My forwardline is built around Coventry (my number 1 pick, and number 2 overall), and his achievements speak for themselves as the dominant full forward of all time in my view, but I've looked to balance this focus with other players who aren't afraid of the arial grunt to take load off Coventry (Cloke, Hailwood), and silk and class in Charlie Pannan Sr (a leading goalkicker for Collingwood) Nick Davis and Krakouer.

My backline is strong, with a bias towards bigger, more robust players certainly, but each of these players has a strong build and physical presence, with proven talent to burn. I've shifted Monohan from traditional CHB to a half back flank role given his flair for high flying (in a similar role what Howe plays for us now) and expect him to be an absolute intercepting machine. Taking the reins at CHB is Fitzgerald, who was regarded as the next Leeter Collier before he left us to go to SA.
 

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Ok.
I was going to pick "night game specialist" Leigh Carlson with my last pick, until someone above alerted to the fact no one has picked Craig Starcevich.
I know he was a much maligned player, like Banksy at times, but Starca did 2 things i love in a Collingwood player:
- played well in big games
- played well against Carlton
That goal on the run against Carlton in 1988.......what a moment. images.jpeg-23.jpg
Thanks to the people running this thread.
Will comment on my team later.
Raymond.
 
raymond35 said:
Ok.
I was going to pick "night game specialist" Leigh Carlson with my last pick, until someone above alerted to the fact no one has picked Craig Starcevich.
I know he was a much maligned player, like Banksy at times, but Starca did 2 things i love in a Collingwood player:
- played well in big games
- played well against Carlton
That goal on the run against Carlton in 1988.......what a moment. View attachment 1274640
Thanks to the people running this thread.
Will comment on my team later.
Raymond.
Click to expand...
Jokes on you, I tricked you into missing out on Corey Gault
 
raymond35 said:
Ok.
I was going to pick "night game specialist" Leigh Carlson with my last pick, until someone above alerted to the fact no one has picked Craig Starcevich.
I know he was a much maligned player, like Banksy at times, but Starca did 2 things i love in a Collingwood player:
- played well in big games
- played well against Carlton
That goal on the run against Carlton in 1988.......what a moment. View attachment 1274640
Thanks to the people running this thread.
Will comment on my team later.
Raymond.
Click to expand...
Remember that game vividly! Johnston put them in front midway through the last with a torp from outside 50 and I thought we were toast until Starca kicked 3 in a row to seal it.
 
Trickster said:
Remember that game vividly! Johnston put them in front midway through the last with a torp from outside 50 and I thought we were toast until Starca kicked 3 in a row to seal it.
Click to expand...

The buzz in the crowd was unbelievable and when Starca slammed through the third the noise was deafening.
 

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