collingwood and carlton the tradition lives forever

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CJH,

You've got to "TRY" to look at this unbiasly.
If you read my last post, you would realise that I rank Rich-Carl at number 3. I rate Ess-Carl at number 1 and Carl-Coll at number 2.

I couldn't give a rats ass about Carlton or Collingwood but I can still see the Blues-Pies is a huge rivalry, and deserving of the number 2 spot.

But you're right about Rich-Carl. There is no doubt wahtsoever, that Carlton is Richmonds greatest rival. More so than Collingwood.
 
The final word I have to say on this bull shit topic is that is stupid to say a footballing tradition will live for ever because nothing lives for ever. Times are always a changing and by the way wasn't Melbourne, Collingwoods biggest rival in the 50s & 60s and wasn't Carlton's biggest rival in the 70s Richmond and what have these to clubs done since the 81 grand final to enhance their tradition against each other absolutley NOTHING. Today Essendon would be Carlton's biggest rival not Collingwood, Collingwood doesn't have a rival because they don't beat anybody.
 
The final word I have to say on this bull shit topic is that is stupid to say a footballing tradition will live for ever because nothing lives for ever. Times are always a changing and by the way wasn't Melbourne, Collingwoods biggest rival in the 50s & 60s and wasn't Carlton's biggest rival in the 70s Richmond and what have these to clubs done since the 81 grand final to enhance their tradition against each other absolutley NOTHING. Today Essendon would be Carlton's biggest rival not Collingwood, Collingwood doesn't have a rival because they don't beat anybody.
 

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ODN's

hey ODN....been a while.

Just a comment in passing at your interesting view on the outcome of the old VFL / AFL debate. I seem to recall you being a strong advocate on one side of the argument...and now someone (probably Dan) has elected you adjudicator as well.

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oh...well.....this is the cards we are dealt as an "interstate" supporter.

I haven't given in btw, I just thought people got a bit sick of it all, quite happy to continue the blows anytime you are ready.

anyway......


ptw
 
Originally posted by Mobbenfuhrer:
Dipper :

This is only subjective, but perhaps Hawthorn missed out on the opportunity to develop a high-ranking rivalry.

The Hawks had struggled for success until the 80's (correct me whenever I'm wrong, I can't be stuffed researching to back this up), which might have gained sympathy from opposition club supporters, rather than vehemence. Hawthorn supporters were generally not quite so arrogant even when they started roping in the GF appearances, they were either well-behaved, for the 99% of them just enjoyed their success, or so far over-the-top, (read : the rebel cheer squad) that nobody wanted to be near them and forgot to clash.

I guess that even when they hit the end of the 80's, other clubs' fans were still perhaps a little sympathetic : 'They've had it hard for a long time, let 'em enjoy it', though of course we'd rather it was our own team that had had that success.

Suddenly in the early 90's they clocked up on or two more flags, dare I say it, less obviously. Opposing barrackers began to see red, and got their hate-manuals out. But before anything of real feeling could be generated, the Hawks fell from the limelight, almost as if they'd had their fifteen years of fame.

Once again, fans of other clubs decided to let them be.

It seems perhaps that the Hawks might be floating up towards the top in recent years, and if they start winning flags, or at least making Grannies, again, THEN would be the time for rivalries to cement themselves.

I'm not a Hawthorn supporter so don't fuss about me, this is all just a suggestion. I'd be interested in hearing from Hawk fans, am I close, or should I lay off the grog?

Cheers from Kev

Interesting thoughts, Kev. However, I would point to a similar situation that exists today, the Kangaroos. They too have had limited success apart from the 70's and 90's. But a lot of people I've spoken to, myself included, "hate" the kangaroos.

While they might not be my biggest rivals they certainly are up the in the "despised stakes". This is dispite North's lack of success up until "recently".
 
And they lost a couple of GF's in the 70's as well - ie: 5 GF appearances (thanks very much Mr L.Matthews for the rabbits).

So I've seen the Hawkers as rivals for a long, long time.
 
Mobben-whatever,
3 flags in the 70's shows you know stuff all about the Hawks,so why try to impart your dribble on anyone.
 
True rivalry in a nine team town is impossible. The real rivalry is now in Adelaide and Perth. We need another side in Sydney to add sparkle there. 110,000 at Stadium Australia for a local derby may be some years away but is possible.
 
Originally posted by carb70:
The Old Dark Navys all players at Port Adelaide are told not to live on the Port tradition of old they are told to create their own history and tradition. Now don't ever compare the Carlton of 95 with Essendon of 2000 while both where great sides problably the best of all time Essendon won their premiership with good drafting many of the players still yet to reach their prime, While Carlton won their Premiership with a whole bunch of thirty year olds like Kernahan,Williams,Dean,Spalding,Madden, Bradley etc. and and you proved how much you care for the interstate tradition to say Adelaide and West Coast have no tradition,doesn't 100 years of SANFL & WAFL football count for anything but then again these comps were r*ped during the 70s & 80s by your mighty VFL clubs but we were then invited to join your debt ridden comp to save your precious clubs from extinction.

Yes, 100 years of SANFL and WAFL counts for something. What does that have to do with West Coast and Adelaide?? They were formed out of states with football history but their football history itself does not go back further than 1987 and 1990 respectively. I am well aware of Carlton's history from 1864 to 1896 but do not include it as part of their VFL/AFL history.

Peter Dean and Stephen Silvagni were developed by Carlton as was Kouta, Christou, Ratten, Sexton, Fraser Brown. Brad Pearce, Matt Clape and Dean Rice were in essence 'rejects' and there services were not bought. They were offered a life-line. Taking a chance on players that couldn't get a game anywhere else was one of the things Carlton did to adapt and deviate from their previous big spending ways. We also had champion players during the lean 89-91 years. It was the next tier stepping up that won Carlton the 1995 flag.


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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body
 
Dipper, i guess the closest we had to traditional rivals was North stemming back to the mid seventies when we were the two power teams of the league. Aside from that, theres still quite a few Bombers out there *hiya Dutch* who LOATHED us after the humiliation of 83 (the reverse held true too after 84/5) and still hate the fact that we ruled the eighties when they (Dons) think it should have been them.

So i guess they would be the Hawks two main 'historical' (if thirty odd years counts as historical) rivals.

Cheers.
 

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The North vs Hawthorn rivalry which started in the 70s really only lasted to no longer than the mid-80s. North slipped while the Hawks found a new rival for premierships in the form of Essendon. In essense, the North vs Hawthorn rivalry was born out of challenging for honours, not anything else.

It's a contrast to the Carlton vs Collingwood, and to a lesser extent, Collingwood vs Melbourne. While both these rivalries were born out of finals, there was also the extra edge that came out of a real or imagined rich vs poor battle. Despite Melbourne's decline in fortunes since 1964, Collingwood vs Melbourne game still drew 50,000 plus crowds well into the 80s. But now, the sting seems to have gone out of that rivalry.

From a North perspective, our main rivalries seem to be against Brisbane, Sydney, and Essendon. The Brisbane one stems from the battle to takeover Fitzroy, two preliminary finals, a bunch of closely fought games, plus a certain injury to one of their players early in the '99 preliminary final...plenty of fuel for mutual dislike there. With Sydney, it appears (from TV at least....when will we ever see North vs Swans in Melbourne????) to be a spat over the Sydney market, while with Essendon, it's a mini-version of the Hawks vs Dons of the 80s where we fight it out to be finals top dogs. Still, with Essendon, everyone wants to beat them because every club wants to match it with the best, and at the moment, Essendon are the best going around. A few Geelong people (for some unknown reason) seem to see North as their main rivals.

Collingwood vs Carlton or Essendon vs Carlton? In recent years, as an outsider, I look forward to the Essendon vs Carlton battles, but as ODNs pointed out, rivalries are a matter of passion rather than statistics. The true test is how much the fans anticipate a game should the two rivals be at the opposite ends of the ladder, and in this case, there is still plenty of spice in Carlton vs Collingwood no matter where the two clubs are on the ladder, whilst I'm not too sure that Carlton would be all that bothered with the Dons should Carlton be on top while Essendon (use your imagination here kids) be at the lower reaches of the ladder.
 
Premier,

Perhaps because it garnered some discussion from 2 or 3 folks, and only one piece of shit comment from a child like you.

If you read my message, which I suppose you are claiming (and therefore lying like a child), you would see that I admitted I couldn't be stuffed doing the research. Now, you didn't read my message, you simply read someone put me right about something I had got wrong, and replied basically on the premise.

Therefore its likely that you had no idea either, when Hawthorn won their premierships. You instead waited until someone mentioned it. I don't know stuff-all. My knowledge is limited, unlike your childishness, and when it comes to Hawthorn its always going to be more limited, as I'm not going to know as much about an opposing club.

If I wasn't this hungover I wouldn't have replied, but at the present moment it's serving to entertain me, as is your childishness.

Are you happy with your predominant role in life, that of being here solely to entertain me? It's pretty easy, didn't want to pick anything to difficult out for you.

Your parents are scum for not punching the bejeezus out of you every time you get your hands onto a computer.
 
Originally posted by Shinboners:


It's a contrast to the Carlton vs Collingwood, and to a lesser extent, Collingwood vs Melbourne. While both these rivalries were born out of finals, there was also the extra edge that came out of a real or imagined rich vs poor battle.......

Collingwood vs Carlton or Essendon vs Carlton? In recent years, as an outsider, I look forward to the Essendon vs Carlton battles, but as ODNs pointed out, rivalries are a matter of passion rather than statistics. The true test is how much the fans anticipate a game should the two rivals be at the opposite ends of the ladder, and in this case, there is still plenty of spice in Carlton vs Collingwood no matter where the two clubs are on the ladder, whilst I'm not too sure that Carlton would be all that bothered with the Dons should Carlton be on top while Essendon (use your imagination here kids) be at the lower reaches of the ladder.

Shinners!!! Maaaaate!!!!
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Exactly. I fumble around searching the recesses of my mind for the right words to convince the unconvincable (?) You have summed it up perfectly. A true test of a rivalry is its ability to stay strong for reasons other than the premiership tally and top spot and defending proud records. Rest assured that Carlton were hurting after round 3, 2000. That very hurt went a long way towards grinding the Magpies into the ground the second time around.

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mens sana in corpore sano - a sound mind in a sound body
 
SHINBONERS AND ME OLD MATE TODN
Thank you guys, i still cant believe some of the crap and imature replies to this original post.I find it refreshing that you 2 guys along with myself are not blinded by petty jealousies and anti victorian crap.I feel so more secure in here now, that i have found other users on this board like yourselves who seem to have some sort of knowledge on our great game.
keep it up
joffa
 

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collingwood and carlton the tradition lives forever

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