Collingwood and Richmond - who has the greater supporter base

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dave10

Premiership Player
Apr 26, 2004
3,287
2,298
Melbourne
AFL Club
Essendon
Perhaps read my post again.
I am saying that the supporter base is those who nominally support a certain team, including passive supporters. Memberships and crowds increase when those people start to actively support their team. For example in 2017, Richmond scarves started appearing on people who I never knew had a team. Parents at school, etc who said ‘my dad followed Richmond’. Hey presto next season the kids are wearing Richmond jumpers and they are buying memberships. Now they are actively involved compared to possible being embarrassed to be a Tiger fan the previous 10 - 20 years. The Tiger fans who remained involved in the 90s and early 2000s are diehard. The 40k who joined in 2017 - 19 are obviously not. Those 40k may well become diehards, but some will jump off the bandwagon when the premiership window closes.
North Melbourne would have the most diehard supporter base. But it is small and there are not enough passive fans to jump on the bandwagon. Even if they won 3/4 flags, they still could not get to 80k. Same with Bulldogs. Already maxed out, only a small bump even after 2016.
I work in a job where I meet a lot of people, all over Melbourne. I have also been involved in junior footy and Auskick across Melbourne. Combining this, with other metrics mentioned, and giving a score out of 100 using the biggest supporter base as 100, this is my list
Collingwood 100
Essendon 95
Carlton 90
Richmond 85
Hawks 70
Cats 60 (adding in Geelong)
Dees 55
Saints 55
North 40
Dogs 38
If you went back 50 years this list would be the same, except for swapping Dees and Hawks. It takes 50 years of rediculous success, for extreme failure to change the underlying support base significantly. People in Melbourne simply don’t change teams easily, and most immigration the since the 1980s has been from China and India with very little interest in footy so this is why the number don’t change much.
Good post. Some good arguments proposed throughout. In particular, noting the ‘bandwagon’ effect to truly ascertain a Clubs baseline support.

As you mention, supporter bases appear to surge or decline as their on field performances rise and fall. However, baseline support isn’t necessarily analysed accurately by taking aggregate attendances or membership figures at a point in time, in absolute terms. Even more so when comparing clubs over a period where on field form varied considerably or not noting limiting factors that tell the real story like stadium constraints and capacity differences.

That’s why I hold some real value in some of those broader and wider surveys of active support of AFL like Dreamteam or that SuperCoach breakdown. They tend to be markers of national team alignment that isn’t as impacted by whether a team has won 3 recent premierships of in my mobs case, not won a single final in 18 (yes, 18!!) years.

Every club can point to a layer of stats to justify their place in the pecking order. In my teams case, having 80,000 members on its books without winning a final in 18 years stands up well against any metric any fan of another club can post in a relative sense.

I also admire St Kilda having over 57,000 members given their relative on field failure the last decade.

I agree the Kangaroos rusted on support appears unrivalled. However I would mention that Clubs who’ve spent decades just keeping their heads above water tend the have a higher proportion of members / supporter base size because they’ve been implored to do so to safeguard the survival of their Club.

I think you’ve got the pecking order in Victoria almost entirely accurate, with sound rationale. Well done👍
 
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South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
7,239
8,177
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
You won in 2010 and didn’t even get close to that. Did you even break 80k? No way you broke 85k. Pies supporters must hate that we broke the 100k record first lol. But still insist they are the biggest. It’s actually a joke when you think about it.

It is actually a joke that neutral supporter after neutral supporter over the last few pages is saying Collingwood is bigger yet you persist in not listening to people who have no bias on the matter. Even Richmond supporters are saying it. Collingwood is bigger, it hurts you I know but get over it and get to the footy tonight. Anything under 80,000 for two Giants of the game in form is a failure.
 

Falcon3518

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2022
1,442
834
AFL Club
Richmond
Perhaps read my post again.
I am saying that the supporter base is those who nominally support a certain team, including passive supporters. Memberships and crowds increase when those people start to actively support their team. For example in 2017, Richmond scarves started appearing on people who I never knew had a team. Parents at school, etc who said ‘my dad followed Richmond’. Hey presto next season the kids are wearing Richmond jumpers and they are buying memberships. Now they are actively involved compared to possible being embarrassed to be a Tiger fan the previous 10 - 20 years. The Tiger fans who remained involved in the 90s and early 2000s are diehard. The 40k who joined in 2017 - 19 are obviously not. Those 40k may well become diehards, but some will jump off the bandwagon when the premiership window closes.
North Melbourne would have the most diehard supporter base. But it is small and there are not enough passive fans to jump on the bandwagon. Even if they won 3/4 flags, they still could not get to 80k. Same with Bulldogs. Already maxed out, only a small bump even after 2016.
I work in a job where I meet a lot of people, all over Melbourne. I have also been involved in junior footy and Auskick across Melbourne. Combining this, with other metrics mentioned, and giving a score out of 100 using the biggest supporter base as 100, this is my list
Collingwood 100
Essendon 95
Carlton 90
Richmond 85
Hawks 70
Cats 60 (adding in Geelong)
Dees 55
Saints 55
North 40
Dogs 38
If you went back 50 years this list would be the same, except for swapping Dees and Hawks. It takes 50 years of rediculous success, for extreme failure to change the underlying support base significantly. People in Melbourne simply don’t change teams easily, and most immigration the since the 1980s has been from China and India with very little interest in footy so this is why the number don’t change much.

You are making a lot of assumptions here, especially about why Richmond supporters follow the team and rating figures out of your ass. What you are essentially saying is that everybody who joined us are bandwagon supporters (which is very insulting btw) and we did not grow our supporter base at all. On top of this our members/supporters are not as big as the other big 4 AND not as diehard despite breaking membership records by 20k less that the next best at the time. You want to have it both ways it seems.

On top of that we have also had 100k members for the past 5 years which means nothing according to you as they are all still bandwagoners even though we finished 12th last year and they didn’t get to go to any games in the 2020 season. Wow dude just wow.

On top of that you disregarded that the other big 4 did not making a big jump in memberships compared to us after winning the their flags even though they are apparently a bigger club AND more diehard again. How do you explain that one, it’s a little weird no?

On top of that you disregard that over the past 5 years we have had the most attendances and still have the most at home this year. Guess that means nothing either.

From the sounds of it you are and older guy that still thinks we are Richmond from the 90s. Face it bro we are the biggest now. Our membership grew like 20-30k from like 2010 to 2016 before we won a flag.
 

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Falcon3518

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2022
1,442
834
AFL Club
Richmond
It is actually a joke that neutral supporter after neutral supporter over the last few pages is saying Collingwood is bigger yet you persist in not listening to people who have no bias on the matter. Even Richmond supporters are saying it. Collingwood is bigger, it hurts you I know but get over it and get to the footy tonight. Anything under 80,000 for two Giants of the game in form is a failure.

Most of these people are boomers like you. Of course they think this way. Richmond have a stigma of being unsuccessful and smaller because we were for decades. I mean people are still saying ninthmond memes and saying our players are overrated. Apparently only Dusty is “Decent” and the rest of the list is mostly VFL standard players. He also didn’t deserve 2 of his 3 norm smiths lol.
 

South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
7,239
8,177
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Most of these people are boomers like you. Of course they think this way. Richmond have a stigma of being unsuccessful and smaller because we were for decades. I mean people are still saying ninthmond memes and saying our players are overrated. Apparently only Dusty is “Decent” and the rest of the list is mostly VFL standard players. He also didn’t deserve 2 of his 3 norm smiths lol.

Boomer lol. Not even close. Neutrals have analysed facts, looked at the data and have come to their own conclusion but even that is not enough for you. Neutral after neutral over the past 6 pages have said Collingwood, Richmond supporters have said Collingwood but you refuse to listen. Labelling people by the way is a dangerous and insecure trait.
 

South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
7,239
8,177
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Most of these people are boomers like you. Of course they think this way. Richmond have a stigma of being unsuccessful and smaller because we were for decades. I mean people are still saying ninthmond memes and saying our players are overrated. Apparently only Dusty is “Decent” and the rest of the list is mostly VFL standard players. He also didn’t deserve 2 of his 3 norm smiths lol.

And by the way Boomers would have grown up in Richmond dominated eras so that destroys your argument immediately.
 
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Walshawk

Club Legend
Mar 24, 2017
2,941
3,224
Blackburn
AFL Club
Hawthorn
You are making a lot of assumptions here, especially about why Richmond supporters follow the team and rating figures out of your ass. What you are essentially saying is that everybody who joined us are bandwagon supporters (which is very insulting btw) and we did not grow our supporter base at all. On top of this our members/supporters are not as big as the other big 4 AND not as diehard despite breaking membership records by 20k less that the next best at the time. You want to have it both ways it seems.

On top of that we have also had 100k members for the past 5 years which means nothing according to you as they are all still bandwagoners even though we finished 12th last year and they didn’t get to go to any games in the 2020 season. Wow dude just wow.

On top of that you disregarded that the other big 4 did not making a big jump in memberships compared to us after winning the their flags even though they are apparently a bigger club AND more diehard again. How do you explain that one, it’s a little weird no?

On top of that you disregard that over the past 5 years we have had the most attendances and still have the most at home this year. Guess that means nothing either.

From the sounds of it you are and older guy that still thinks we are Richmond from the 90s. Face it bro we are the biggest now. Our membership grew like 20-30k from like 2010 to 2016 before we won a flag.
1. It sounds like you are a younger bro who isn't aware how big Essendon and Carton were before their respective 20 years of being rubbish. I.e. Bigger than Richmond and behind only Collingwood.
2. Most clubs' memberships grew dramatically 2010 - 2016.
3. Of course Richmond had the best attendances in 2017 - 2021 - you are a Big 4 club who three flags! Any of Pies, Blues or Bombers would be in the same position.
4. When you say the Richmond has grown its supporter base, are you saying that people have changed teams or that did they not previously have a team? I would suggest that most of the new Tigers members already nominally followed Richmond and starting attending games regularly and bought a membership once your were winning big again. This is the definition of jumping on the bandwagon. It happens to all premiership teams. Nothing to be ashamed of. Only time will tell of they jump off the bandwagon once your premiership window closes, or become diehards. If they become diehards then it is likely that they will influence their family and friends which, in turn, will increase the supporter base. But, without success, it is very hard to actually engage all of the supporter base.
5. It is no coincidence that the Big 4 is made up of the most successful clubs (again Melbourne the only anomaly). People like winners. They jump on the bandwagon when their team is winning. If they didn't, Tigers would not be in the position they are in. Just look at the 2016 membership table.
 

South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
7,239
8,177
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
Pretty good stats. Too bad it’s cause they were playing in big crowds 10+ years ago. Wouldn’t get 3/4 of that today. Pies are bordering on minnow club status like the blues right now, sad how far the club has fallen.

So Collingwood have the only 3 crowds this year of 75,000 plus and we are minnows. That must make the Tigers Mycoplasma Genitalium’s.

.
 

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TW Sherrin

Brownlow Medallist
Oct 7, 2014
13,711
13,832
?
AFL Club
Collingwood
Other Teams
49ers
It's probably Collingwood but Richmond's membership numbers, finals crowds and average home crowds suggest Richmond have a supporter base that may rival or even succeed the Collingwood supporter base in terms of numbers.

This is a serious question? Richmond fans disappeared for 2 decades.
 

South of the Yarra

Norm Smith Medallist
Jul 23, 2006
7,239
8,177
Victoria
AFL Club
Collingwood
The Big Powerhouse Richmond draws 50,000 (and I was one of them) against an in form Blues who are up and about. That is as bad as it gets. Watch the excuses roll in.
 

Falcon3518

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2022
1,442
834
AFL Club
Richmond
Great crowd 50k on a pouring Thursday night in the middle of flu season. Even the fox footy people praised the crowd. Idk what you pies supporters are on about lol
 

Falcon3518

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2022
1,442
834
AFL Club
Richmond
Tbh I’m bored with this thread. We have more members and are bigger. I’ll let you guys argue it until you’re blue in the face. It obviously means a lot more to you than it does to me. Good luck for the rest of the season.
 

Kangapirate

Club Legend
Nov 27, 2012
2,011
2,315
AFL Club
North Melbourne
My theory is a lot of success starved footy fans drop off when the team they support actually do achieve success. Richmond and Hawthorn not getting the crowds they should be getting relative to the success they’ve had the past decade, and Melbourne supporters seem to wanna be anywhere but the footy.

Collingwood and Carlton are probably well placed moving forward as their supporters have that hunger of watching their respective sides hunt a flag.
 

Falcon3518

Club Legend
Mar 13, 2022
1,442
834
AFL Club
Richmond
You sound defeated mate

Nah mate, just sick of that other pies bloke texting every match. Even on the game day thread he talked about crowd size instead of the game. Talk about being obsessed. You guys obviously don’t know other factors that affect crowd sizes, like the day weather etc. can’t believe you don’t even know 50k is a great number for today, even the fox footy guys said it. I’m arguing with brick walls, it’s a waste of my time.
 

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