Toast Collingwood has Best Midfield for 2017

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4#Didak#4

Premiership Player
May 21, 2007
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I'm not a very big fan of Wills, when rewatching the last games of the season I payed a bit more attention to him and I thought he was quite slow, not a great kick and his handballs were often times floaty and to a person under immediate pressure, I did love his tackling intensity and his power in the contest but I just don't think he has enough to make it. I hope he proves me wrong but I feel we have a fair few players ahead of him now and some that will overtake him in the future.

Yes, he has weaknesses in his game no doubt, but you need to put those games in the perspective of being his first 5 games. When watching the VFL those disposal problems were less obvious and this is to do with the step up in level. Similar disposal critiques were give to Josh Smith after his first half dozen games, however as he became used to the tempo his disposal improved quite a bit.

This is all linked to decision making under pressure and we need to allow them to adjust to the tempo of AFL footy before turfing them out. Wills wins his ball in contested situations and as such will always be under the pump when disposing, he does need to clean this up but I am not expecting Pendlebury like composure, he really just needs to take the first option and not over think it at this stage.

He is slow but he would do well to model his game on Sydney's Josh Kennedy. They have very similar attributes and Kennedy was early in his career maligned for what he couldn't do - slow & average disposal. However, he capitalised on his strengths in winning huge volumes of contested ball and tackling like a crazy man, over time he tidied up his disposal and became a leader and now no one talks about the fact he is still slow. I would like Wills to do follow that model, concentrate on simply winning every contest over & over, his tackling is already at an extremely high level for a 5 game debutant.

He does have competition for a spot and I feel like he will struggle to make it into that midfield given the others on the list - so he is depth to start with, there is room for only 1 grunt player in our midfield to do the heavy lifting for the classy quartet. My first pick is Adams, however suggestions are that he will be used behind the ball and also he injury can open doors. Outside Adams there are Greenwood, Crisp, DeGoey & Thomas. I think he is well within that mix if his performances keep stacking up, DeGoey is the one we really want to come through as he is a class above but he is still young. All the others have a chance too if they perform. Competition for spots is good though.
 

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May 27, 2008
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Yes, he has weaknesses in his game no doubt, but you need to put those games in the perspective of being his first 5 games. When watching the VFL those disposal problems were less obvious and this is to do with the step up in level. Similar disposal critiques were give to Josh Smith after his first half dozen games, however as he became used to the tempo his disposal improved quite a bit.

This is all linked to decision making under pressure and we need to allow them to adjust to the tempo of AFL footy before turfing them out. Wills wins his ball in contested situations and as such will always be under the pump when disposing, he does need to clean this up but I am not expecting Pendlebury like composure, he really just needs to take the first option and not over think it at this stage.

He is slow but he would do well to model his game on Sydney's Josh Kennedy. They have very similar attributes and Kennedy was early in his career maligned for what he couldn't do - slow & average disposal. However, he capitalised on his strengths in winning huge volumes of contested ball and tackling like a crazy man, over time he tidied up his disposal and became a leader and now no one talks about the fact he is still slow. I would like Wills to do follow that model, concentrate on simply winning every contest over & over, his tackling is already at an extremely high level for a 5 game debutant.

He does have competition for a spot and I feel like he will struggle to make it into that midfield given the others on the list - so he is depth to start with, there is room for only 1 grunt player in our midfield to do the heavy lifting for the classy quartet. My first pick is Adams, however suggestions are that he will be used behind the ball and also he injury can open doors. Outside Adams there are Greenwood, Crisp, DeGoey & Thomas. I think he is well within that mix if his performances keep stacking up, DeGoey is the one we really want to come through as he is a class above but he is still young. All the others have a chance too if they perform. Competition for spots is good though.

Wills biggest issue is that he needs to win more footy. If he can average in the 20's and 4+ clearances a game he'll pick himself. I'm not confident he can lift those numbers but as you point out he's only 5 games in so i'm judging harshly.

I think there is room for a second grunt midfielder. In fact I think it's a necessity. Adams is the clear number one. But there is real battle behind him from DeGoey, Greenwood, Wills and probably JT also for that other spot. I have DeGoey on development potential and his flexibility to play forward as my preference. Wills for mine is next in line.
 
Yep. 30+ hardly strung a decent season together in history.
2006 - 2nd place B&F
2008 - selected in the international rules squad
2011 - 1st place B&F and AA squad selection
2013 - 1st place B&F
2016 - highest poller from NM in the brownlow and 4th in B&F in only 19 games.

Sounds like a C grade resume to me.
 
Sep 17, 2007
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Yep. 30+ hardly strung a decent season together in history.

This seems somewhat hyperbolic.

While his RECENT injury profile isn't overly glamorous, at his injury free best, he'd be arguably our best midfielder in terms of pure impact on a game.
 

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Funny but the same argument was made about our 2010 team before the season. 'Not enough A graders'.

Teams and players always get better after they win a flag. As good as they are rated, Rooey, Del Santo, Hayes etc would all be considered even better players if a ball had bounced another way in 2010, and Pendles, Swan etc would be considered lesser players if we lost two GF's in a row.
Spot on.

Let's just say St Kilda went back to back 2009 then 2010 then wouldn't
Ross Lyon be a super star coach,
Riewoldt elite of elite, del santo, Hayes, elite, Goddard elite etc
 

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Anyone else notice that we only became the best midfield in the AFL in the weeks after Daicos was drafted.

obviously champion data thinks Daicos is elite.
Accidentally put Peter Daicos in?
Then I can get their point....

Imagine something like Peter Daicos returning to us.....
:)
 

Frank Gallagher

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Aug 26, 2016
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I think we struggle with our stoppage structure at times, we lose a lot of clearances but we also lose a lot of uncontested clearances where the opposition takes it away with little to no pressure, this puts enormous strain on those up the ground.

We also tend to have to many going for the same ball leaving unmarked opponents free on the outside, even when we win the ball in that scenario we often don't have a clear second target because those we do have on the outside are covered, we did clean that up a tad this year though, but we can still improve.
 

THATSGOLD

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Midfield. Pendlebury and Treloar A grade.
Who are our other midfield A graders that will step up in the next two years. Adams maybe but I think will always be B.
Would be happy to trade any others for a Rockliff.
 
Midfield. Pendlebury and Treloar A grade.
Who are our other midfield A graders that will step up in the next two years. Adams maybe but I think will always be B.
Would be happy to trade any others for a Rockliff.

Rockliff is perhaps the most useless accumulator of possessions in the comp behind Trent Cothcin, just to put it into perspective. He's also an A grade dickhead which every team in the land seemed to pick up on during the trading period and which seems to either have escaped your attention or not mattered to you.
 
Oct 7, 2014
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Yes, he has weaknesses in his game no doubt, but you need to put those games in the perspective of being his first 5 games. When watching the VFL those disposal problems were less obvious and this is to do with the step up in level. Similar disposal critiques were give to Josh Smith after his first half dozen games, however as he became used to the tempo his disposal improved quite a bit.

This is all linked to decision making under pressure and we need to allow them to adjust to the tempo of AFL footy before turfing them out. Wills wins his ball in contested situations and as such will always be under the pump when disposing, he does need to clean this up but I am not expecting Pendlebury like composure, he really just needs to take the first option and not over think it at this stage.

He is slow but he would do well to model his game on Sydney's Josh Kennedy. They have very similar attributes and Kennedy was early in his career maligned for what he couldn't do - slow & average disposal. However, he capitalised on his strengths in winning huge volumes of contested ball and tackling like a crazy man, over time he tidied up his disposal and became a leader and now no one talks about the fact he is still slow. I would like Wills to do follow that model, concentrate on simply winning every contest over & over, his tackling is already at an extremely high level for a 5 game debutant.

He does have competition for a spot and I feel like he will struggle to make it into that midfield given the others on the list - so he is depth to start with, there is room for only 1 grunt player in our midfield to do the heavy lifting for the classy quartet. My first pick is Adams, however suggestions are that he will be used behind the ball and also he injury can open doors. Outside Adams there are Greenwood, Crisp, DeGoey & Thomas. I think he is well within that mix if his performances keep stacking up, DeGoey is the one we really want to come through as he is a class above but he is still young. All the others have a chance too if they perform. Competition for spots is good though.

yes he has only played 5 games but he is also 23yo. he isn't a kid. he doesn't have 2-3 years to find his feet.
 

Ketchup

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Is champion data credible? how credible would they be on this board if they said we had the worst midfield.
 

Frank Gallagher

Diamond Encrusted Unobtainium Premium Member
Aug 26, 2016
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Midfield. Pendlebury and Treloar A grade.
Who are our other midfield A graders that will step up in the next two years. Adams maybe but I think will always be B.
Would be happy to trade any others for a Rockliff.
Sidders is a solid B, i think he's been played out of position for the majority of his career, I think he's a genuine crumbing forward, could be elite in the role if given a decent run at it.

Adams IMO will be a star, I have little doubt about that..
 
Jul 25, 2008
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Is champion data credible? how credible would they be on this board if they said we had the worst midfield.

Purely statistical based on their own metrics where they rate quality of depth over star power. For instance all of Sidebottom, Wells, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy and Crisp based on CD metrics are rated above average by position ergo our number 1 midfield ranking. The problem is it completely ignores how they operate as a group.

As to their credibility well that's purely down to how much weight you out in statistics.
 

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