Toast Collingwood has Best Midfield for 2017

[THATSGOLD]

Sidders is a solid B, i think he's been played out of position for the majority of his career, I think he's a genuine crumbing forward, could be elite in the role if given a decent run at it.

Adams IMO will be a star, I have little doubt about that..

Yeh no way I'd consider Sidebottom a genuine mid.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Rockliff is perhaps the most useless accumulator of possessions in the comp behind Trent Cothcin, just to put it into perspective. He's also an A grade dickhead which every team in the land seemed to pick up on during the trading period and which seems to either have escaped your attention or not mattered to you.

We would kill to have Cotchin or Rockliff in our team going in to 2017 to replace any one outside of Treloar and Pendlebury.

 

[Apex36]

Is champion data credible? how credible would they be on this board if they said we had the worst midfield.

In terms of raw data, absolutely. In terms of how they interperate that data to form their opinions on the best and worst midfields, they're not the best.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Treloar
Pendlebury
Adams
...

Missing that forth mid IMO.

Someone needs to step up.

Without that forth mid we are about a B grade midfield on average.

Most teams in the AFL have a better 3 and 4 better midfield but our 1 and 2 are very good.

 

[Apex36]

Yeh no way I'd consider Sidebottom a genuine mid.

Sidbottom isn't a mid like Grundy isn't a ruckman.

 

[THATSGOLD]

Sidbottom isn't a mid like Grundy isn't a ruckman.

Ok. Hardly starts in the center square and now he a mid.

 

[jdpie]

Purely statistical based on their own metrics where they rate quality of depth over star power. For instance all of Sidebottom, Wells, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy and Crisp based on CD metrics are rated above average by position ergo our number 1 midfield ranking. The problem is it completely ignores how they operate as a group.

As to their credibility well that's purely down to how much weight you out in statistics.

Out of interest does anyone know how many games the above group has played together (obviously excluding Wells) ? I imagine given the injury profile of last season they may have had 5 games or less ?

 

[Apex36]

Ok. Hardly starts in the center square and now he a mid.

While a total of 16 games is his lowest tally since his debut season in 2009, strong form when he was on the park saw the midfielder finish with a career-high disposal average of 27.3 touches per game.

http://m.collingwoodfc.com.au/player-profile/steele-sidebottom

The club describes him as a mid. He spend the bulk of his time through the midfield. But yeah, you're right, he's not a mid.

 

[Scodog10]

Out of interest does anyone know how many games the above group has played together (obviously excluding Wells) ? I imagine given the injury profile of last season they may have had 5 games or less ?

Quite a few. That group missed a combined 10 or so games in 2016 with Adams most of those himself.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Purely statistical based on their own metrics where they rate quality of depth over star power. For instance all of Sidebottom, Wells, Pendles, Treloar, Adams, Grundy and Crisp based on CD metrics are rated above average by position ergo our number 1 midfield ranking. The problem is it completely ignores how they operate as a group.

As to their credibility well that's purely down to how much weight you out in statistics.

I have no doubt our mids are better than the dogs mids but the dogs are an example of something being better than the sum of its parts.

 

[Scodog10]

I have no doubt our mids are better than the dogs mids but the dogs are an example of something being better than the sum of its parts.

Nah. Dalhaus, Hunter, Libba, Bont, Wallis, Picken and Macrae gobbles our group up!

 

[TW Sherrin]

Nah. Dalhaus, Hunter, Libba, Bont, Wallis, Picken and Macrae gobbles our group up!

respectfully, I disagree. winning a flag is an amazing achievement given how many butchers they have in their midfield.

For the record I consider Hunter, Wallis and Macrae as butchers. Only Bontempelli is elite by foot.

 

[Old Spice]

We would kill to have Cotchin or Rockliff in our team going in to 2017 to replace any one outside of Treloar and Pendlebury.

If we're writing wish lists where trade currency, money and skill levels aren't factors, why not include better players than these two cork-screws?

 

[Scodog10]

respectfully, I disagree. winning a flag is an amazing achievement given how many butchers they have in their midfield.

For the record I consider Hunter, Wallis and Macrae as butchers. Only Bontempelli is elite by foot.

Have you forgotten the group its being compared to? We're unfortunately a long way off based on 2016.

 

[TW Sherrin]

Have you forgotten the group its being compared to? We're unfortunately a long way off based on 2016.

we are talking individual talent not group collective.

 

[Frank Gallagher]

http://m.collingwoodfc.com.au/player-profile/steele-sidebottom

The club describes him as a mid. He spend the bulk of his time through the midfield. But yeah, you're right, he's not a mid.

He's not a top shelf mid, solid B grader IMO, but as a permanent crumbing fwd he has the ability to become elite, and that's where he should play IMO, sick of this 'every talented small fwd has to become a midfielder' s**t.

 

[Scodog10]

we are talking individual talent not group collective.

You can talk whatever you like because we don't have them covered in any metric other than CD's! IMO, its attitudes like yours that are half the issue.

For so long we've thought things would just happen because we look good on paper, we think individual players are better than others or once the injury curse lifts we'll be right!

Whatever it is I'm over it. We're currently bog average as individuals and a collective so we need to fix it moving forward! Hopefully 2017 is the start of it.

 

[doppleganger]

You can talk whatever you like because we don't have them covered in any metric other than CD's! IMO, its attitudes like yours that are half the issue.

For so long we've thought things would just happen because we look good on paper, we think individual players are better than others or once the injury curse lifts we'll be right!

Whatever it is I'm over it. We're currently bog average as individuals and a collective so we need to fix it moving forward! Hopefully 2017 is the start of it.

The big difference between us and a team like the Dogs is that the Dogs had a pretty settled senior defensive structure.

M.Boyd, E.Wood, and Morris all played 20+ games and provided great organization and down back.

Biggs and JJ played basically all the second half of the season, so it was actually a pretty settled defence, especially in the second half of the year.

Bob Murphy was a loss, Adams was hurt...but both those guys didnt feature from about R13, so once JJ came back from his hamstring the Dogs basically had a settled defensive group...so much so they left out Suckling.

Pies had a horrid run with our defenders, and this has killed us...you cant expect consistent performance when the team lacks continuity and a chance to build confidence and trust in your team mates.

That is what made us so good in the 2nd half of 2010, we had so many fit guys who knew each others game inside out...

Dogs arent that special a team, they just had a good month of footy.

 

[WalterBlaknWhte]

The big difference between us and a team like the Dogs is that the Dogs had a pretty settled senior defensive structure.... That is what made us so good in the 2nd half of 2010, we had so many fit guys who knew each others game inside out..

True, the virtue of a 'healthy enough' list cannot be underestimated.

One thing the Dogs' midfield seems to do much better than ours is to nail a chain of fast, accurate handballs. This helps them clear congestion and provide space to run and kick. Bevo supposedly emphasised this early in his tenure for training drills.

It may be that Champion Data measures effective handballs, but not 'how effective.'

 

[Boris the Contradiction]

Yep. 30+ hardly strung a decent season together in history.

Except for this season, where he was brilliant....

 

[Scodog10]

True, the virtue of a 'healthy enough' list cannot be underestimated.

One thing the Dogs' midfield seems to do much better than ours is to nail a chain of fast, accurate handballs. This helps them clear congestion and provide space to run and kick. Bevo supposedly emphasised this early in his tenure for training drills.

It may be that Champion Data measures effective handballs, but not 'how effective.'

The best I can come up with is scoring chain involvements, but a series of quick handballs in a contest deep in the back pocket that sees the ball wind up with a stoppage in your F50 wouldn't be measured.

I do also think we'll see that become less effective in 2017. There'll be teams that try to emulate it, but I hope we're ahead of the curve and work on another method of "escape" that allows us to hold our shape on the outside of those contests.

 

[adammania9]

Treloar
Pendlebury
Adams
...

Missing that forth mid IMO.

Someone needs to step up.

Without that forth mid we are about a B grade midfield on average.

Most teams in the AFL have a better 3 and 4 better midfield but our 1 and 2 are very good.

Average bait; wouldn't bite.

 

[Horaceg]

Treloar
Pendlebury
Adams
...

Missing that forth mid IMO.

Someone needs to step up.

Without that forth mid we are about a B grade midfield on average.

Most teams in the AFL have a better 3 and 4 better midfield but our 1 and 2 are very good.

Is Wells close??

 

[Quicky]

Is Wells close??

Have you read TG's opinions on Wells? This question will take the thread to a dark place.

 

[Horaceg]

Have you read TG's opinions on Wells? This question will take the thread to a dark place.

I can only imagine