Collingwood List Management Thread

[Bay Pie]

Wow, I like this part;



So if no on bids for Stewart, we could use our last pick to get him.

How highly is he rated? (As in will anyone bid for him?)

Well he's playing U18s TAC Cup as a 17 year old KPP/Winger of great height and doing well. Chance of making one of the VIC U18s teams this year. Emma Quayle rates him a possible 1st round pick.

I'd say we've got another good player on our hands.

 

[Aliago]

If we were going to go for a mature age defender, I'd go Hartigan from Werribee. Only 20 this year, 2nd year in the VFL. Could go worse.

 

[Ed D]

Wow, I like this part;



So if no on bids for Stewart, we could use our last pick to get him.

How highly is he rated? (As in will anyone bid for him?)

That's how we also got Barham a few years ago with our last draft pick, nobody put a bid in for him.

By the way, not sure if anyone has mentioned this but it's a good point for this conversation. Malthouse stated a few weeks ago that the club is aiming to have different players peak at different times in the year. Could be why some players are looking ordinary right now and could step it up after the bye.

 

[Scottabe_pendles]

I just read on Nick Maxwell's website (not sure if its common news) that Jye Bolton was actually drafted after running the tests similar to draft camp at Maxwell (and coach of falcons) draft camp. Interesting that pies looked through that to find a player in the main draft (I'm sure they'd just take best prospect available).


Might mean uncovering a smokey or two over next few years though

Article here:
http://www.nickmaxwell.com.au/leading-locals/

 

[HFF]

So basically, we will be taking Stewart with our first round pick, it's almost assured you would think, and if he is rated that highly, then a very late first round pick is a bargain for him.

Opposition supporters will find someway to turn it into an "AFL favours pies" story no doubt.

If young Stewart is as good as what people are predicting, then we will definitely be taking the kid, one way or another.

For the record, for those that follow the youngsters, what type of player is he?

Also, just having a re-think about it, how is it possible to obtain this kid a year ahead of schedule, if he hasn't been signed by GWS? Surely, GWS cannot "prelist" future draft talent? Can anyone shed any light on this aspect?

 

[Bay Pie]

If young Stewart is as good as what people are predicting, then we will definitely be taking the kid, one way or another.

For the record, for those that follow the youngsters, what type of player is he?

Also, just having a re-think about it, how is it possible to obtain this kid a year ahead of schedule, if he hasn't been signed by GWS? Surely, GWS cannot "prelist" future draft talent? Can anyone shed any light on this aspect?

An extra little perk for GWS. They can nominate 4 x 17 year olds born between Jan & Apr, but they must trade these kids.

I had heard he's a KPP but has been playing on a wing. I think he's about 192cm???

 

[TradeDraft]

An extra little perk for GWS. They can nominate 4 x 17 year olds born between Jan & Apr, but they must trade these kids.

I had heard he's a KPP but has been playing on a wing. I think he's about 192cm???

He is 194cm but super light at 74kg

 

[HFF]

An extra little perk for GWS. They can nominate 4 x 17 year olds born between Jan & Apr, but they must trade these kids.

I had heard he's a KPP but has been playing on a wing. I think he's about 192cm???

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

In regards to Stewart, I just hope he isn't stuck in "Jack Watts territory" i.e. looking undersized to play KPP but looking oversized to play as a mid so basically a tall flanker.

Well Dave has pretty much answered part of my assessment. 74 kgs is ultra light for someone of his height. I hope he is capable of adding bulk to his frame.

 

[Kirby]

His father was a big man so you would hope that he could bulk up a bit.

 

[Knightmare]

Ok, thanks for clearing that up.

In regards to Stewart, I just hope he isn't stuck in "Jack Watts territory" i.e. looking undersized to play KPP but looking oversized to play as a mid so basically a tall flanker.

Well Dave has pretty much answered part of my assessment. 74 kgs is ultra light for someone of his height. I hope he is capable of adding bulk to his frame.

Think Watts will have a breakout 2012 season. Usually takes that 4th year for KPPs to show how good they really are. Has the combination of athleticism and drive to make it so not too worried about him.

194cm for Stewart isn't a bad height and will still likely grow another couple of cm considering age. Could easily make it to 196/197/198cm or thereabouts.

The kid isn't even of draft age this year, so give him some time to physically develop. Should be able to grow into a full KPP body, possibly similar to Reid where he wasn't that size immediately, but once he grows into his body he should be fine.

If young Stewart is as good as what people are predicting, then we will definitely be taking the kid, one way or another.

For the record, for those that follow the youngsters, what type of player is he?

Also, just having a re-think about it, how is it possible to obtain this kid a year ahead of schedule, if he hasn't been signed by GWS? Surely, GWS cannot "prelist" future draft talent? Can anyone shed any light on this aspect?

What it means for GWS is that we would likely F/S Stewart anyway, so effectively they can make a profit by us giving up our 1st rounder to get him at a discounted rate.

Win-win for both clubs.

It just goes under the 4x 17 year older GWS can trade. Same will be done with Essendon and Melbourne with Viney and Daniher. So that is 2x (or 3x if we take Stewart) of those 17 year olds where GWS can get additional draft picks as an additional bonus concession.

*Check my earlier post from yesterday at 22:50 if need further clarification.

If we were going to go for a mature age defender, I'd go Hartigan from Werribee. Only 20 this year, 2nd year in the VFL. Could go worse.

Hartigan is one I liked during his draft year. Really wanted him through the rookie draft. Haven't seen his game this year but certainly last year was very happy with his development. Not sure we will draft him, but deserves to be on an AFL list! Good size. Good 1 v 1. Would be an ideal pick for a Hawthorn perhaps.

That's how we also got Barham a few years ago with our last draft pick, nobody put a bid in for him.

By the way, not sure if anyone has mentioned this but it's a good point for this conversation. Malthouse stated a few weeks ago that the club is aiming to have different players peak at different times in the year. Could be why some players are looking ordinary right now and could step it up after the bye.

Barham though was fairly new to football and obviously wasn't demanded in the same way which is why with a later selection we could get him. Stewart is on the other end of the spectrum where he will most likely be highly wanted by a number of clubs.

Your point on players peaking at different points in the season I think is right. Due to injuries, niggles, limited preseasons and other factors it is incredibly difficult for all players to hit their peak at the same time. Probably for now only about 4-6 players might have peaked out for the season on our list (Swan, Pendlebury, Shaw, Ball, McCarthy) with hopefully players like O'Brien, Didak, Reid, Macaffer and Goldsack starting to lift for this next part of the season.

 

[Knightmare]

His father was a big man so you would hope that he could bulk up a bit.

DNA often does help.

His father was 193cm, 99kg.

Looks like he will have a few cm on his father when he enters the league at the rate he is going. Very handy.

 

[JOELY]

Emma Quyale rated him as a Possibe 1st Rounder for next year draft

Not quite. She said he's considered likely to be a first round selection, not that she rates him a first round selection. I know it's semantics, but it's important. Anyway, it's a long way out, things can change. Will be interesting to watch his progress.

 

[Knightmare]

Not quite. She said he's considered likely to be a first round selection, not that she rates him a first round selection. I know it's semantics, but it's important. Anyway, it's a long way out, things can change. Will be interesting to watch his progress.

Things can change as we have seen with Jack Darling (was thought of as a possible top 3 pick and didn't even make the first round in the end). Jarryd Cachia who was an u16 star yet only managed to get rookie listed for Carlton. Tom Swift was by Michael Voss considered the best u16 kid he had ever seen and after a couple of years on the West Coast list still hasn't really shown that he belongs in the league.

So things can change. History suggests that those who are good as 16 year olds or 17 year olds don't always go as high as expected or have the same careers as expected.

But I'm quietly confident that if we do invest in James, he will bring us the results we want and likely exceed those expectations long term.
Still plenty of time to make our decision, so as a club we will make an informed decision no doubt.

 

[Ed D]

What it means for GWS is that we would likely F/S Stewart anyway, so effectively they can make a profit by us giving up our 1st rounder to get him at a discounted rate.

I don't think we'd give up a first rounder for him as there is no discount at all in doing that. First he might stagnate next year and devalue himself, and secondly at worst we can get him with our first round pick in 2012 anyway. Offer GWS a fringe player and/or a lesser pick and see if they take it, if not just get him next year and use our current first round pick on someone else.

 

[Bay Pie]

I don't think we'd give up a first rounder for him as there is no discount at all in doing that. First he might stagnate next year and devalue himself, and secondly at worst we can get him with our first round pick in 2012 anyway. Offer GWS a fringe player and/or a lesser pick and see if they take it, if not just get him next year and use our current first round pick on someone else.

Our discount would be giving pick 25 in 2011, compared to pick 18 in 2012 due to GWS picks. Or pick 24 compared to pick 17 etc pending Priority picks.

In saying that, I agree, that is not significant enough to take a player not draft age eligible (want be able to play for us until 2013 anyway).

 

[Knightmare]

Comes down to whether or not you are an advocate of going for value first or whether because our premiership window is open that we go short term again.

Neither option can be proven as being correct at this stage but both certainly options which need to be considered. No doubt.

In seasons gone past we have gone for the immediate option which has proven correct, but I'd swing towards the value at this stage because we don't have any significant, immediate needs like in seasons past. But there is sound logic in both approaches considering circumstances and once again the immediate option could very well once again prove correct.

Might be able to use our first pick again for another alternative loophole which might open up.

 

[Scodog10]

In the hyperthetical Stewart trade is he one of the 4 players GWS have to trade because they were born between January and April 1994? If that is the case at this very point in time I'd be amazed if he's one of the 4 they trade.

The 4 players they will list will be of the Swallow, Day and Matera mould. I'm not saying Stewart won't be a gun in the future but at this stage he's got a long way to go before he's one of the 4 standouts in his draft year. Atm they'd probably be O'Meara, Yarran, Stringer and Whitfield plus that's not even taking into consideration Viney and Daniher who at this stage look better prospects than Stewart.

From all reports we are into O'Meara and having seen the highlights of his game against the Geelong reserves a few weeks back you can understand why, put simply he looks every bit as good as David Swallow. The only problem is he will cost a deal along the lines of a first round pick and Wellingham to even get them to the table and we'd probably have to chuck one of Mcarthy or Macaffer on top to get the deal done. Considering we're in premiership mode right now and O'Meara won't be available to play until 2013 thats an awful lot, but you can't count it out....

 

[Zahki]

The D&T board says O'Meara has no interest in leaving WA unfortunately, and unless I'm mistaken the player needs to agree to the trade so we've got no chance unless he changes his mind. Would be a great get though, and consider that Buckley will be the one making the calls at the end of the year and I think he'll have more of a long term view than Malthouse has had over the past 2 trade weeks.

 

[Knightmare]

In the hyperthetical Stewart trade is he one of the 4 players GWS have to trade because they were born between January and April 1994? If that is the case at this very point in time I'd be amazed if he's one of the 4 they trade.

The 4 players they will list will be of the Swallow, Day and Matera mould. I'm not saying Stewart won't be a gun in the future but at this stage he's got a long way to go before he's one of the 4 standouts in his draft year. Atm they'd probably be O'Meara, Yarran, Stringer and Whitfield plus that's not even taking into consideration Viney and Daniher who at this stage look better prospects than Stewart.

From all reports we are into O'Meara and having seen the highlights of his game against the Geelong reserves a few weeks back you can understand why, put simply he looks every bit as good as David Swallow. The only problem is he will cost a deal along the lines of a first round pick and Wellingham to even get them to the table and we'd probably have to chuck one of Mcarthy or Macaffer on top to get the deal done. Considering we're in premiership mode right now and O'Meara won't be available to play until 2013 thats an awful lot, but you can't count it out....

As I understand it Stewart is within that age group which does make him eligable.

Why it is in the best interest of GWS to make deals with Coll+Ess+Melb for the F/S though the x4 prelisted is because they get a draft pick/ player and allowing them the ability to make a profit without reducing the very top available talent they will have on offer.

So if sold on O'Meara for example assuming they finish bottom of the ladder, they might be able to take him with their selection in the draft rather than giving him up to an opposition club for profit, because after all it is probably advantageous for them to get a few years of very top talents similar to what GCS did this year + will do over the next 2 seasons with the future draft picks rather than build quicker and only have the one season of quality draft picks. Because the period of dominance likely won't be as good as if you can get those multiple years of very top selections.

In the scenario we wanted O'Meara it would cost significantly more. More likely one of Pendlebury/Thomas or Beams/Sidebottom + 1st round pick. So considering our position it's probably hard to see us wanting to do push that hard for a long term player when you want to keep your current group together.

The D&T board says O'Meara has no interest in leaving WA unfortunately, and unless I'm mistaken the player needs to agree to the trade so we've got no chance unless he changes his mind. Would be a great get though, and consider that Buckley will be the one making the calls at the end of the year and I think he'll have more of a long term view than Malthouse has had over the past 2 trade weeks.

That can be an issue. You never trade into someone who doesn't want to be a part of your club. Regardless of the talent.

I don't think Buckley will take a purely long term view, though it is a good point which suggests we won't recruit purely for the short term as we have over the past 2 seasons, and I think you are right. We will most probably go with a balanced approach where we can continue our dominance, but also maintain it with solid young players coming through to compliment and build on our existing list so we can maintain our success for as long as we can.

 

[sr36]

What is the purpose of the mandatory 3 list changes rule?

The changes that I expect are:
Rounds - delist
Johnson or Davis - retire
Disgruntled fringe player - traded/GWS

 

[TradeDraft]

From all reports we are into O'Meara and having seen the highlights of his game against the Geelong reserves a few weeks back you can understand why, put simply he looks every bit as good as David Swallow. The only problem is he will cost a deal along the lines of a first round pick and Wellingham to even get them to the table and we'd probably have to chuck one of Mcarthy or Macaffer on top to get the deal done. Considering we're in premiership mode right now and O'Meara won't be available to play until 2013 thats an awful lot, but you can't count it out....

Going what you have seen Everyone would be interested in O'Meara.

Where did you see his Highlights?

 

[Knightmare]

What is the purpose of the mandatory 3 list changes rule?

The changes that I expect are:
Rounds - delist
Johnson or Davis - retire
Disgruntled fringe player - traded/GWS

The 3 list changes rule is to make sure 18 year olds of every draft class are given chances as well as making sure team lists don't look like St Kilda's does now with very few quality youngsters coming through.

Right now I have Rounds, Buckley and McCarthy. But certainly Buckley is no certainty given the fact he is actually playing fairly regularly. McCarthy also is no certainty because to date he has essentially been our best and most consistant VFL player so far this season.

If one of Johnson/Davis/L.Brown or whoever retires. That just means we can retain one more of Buckley/McCarthy if we choose. Same goes if one goes to GWS.
Even with a McCarthy he could be delisted then rookied if super keen to retain which is a possible get around as we saw a couple of years ago with young Tobias Thoolan.
Same could be done with maybe Ben Sinclair as an example who could be delisted then rookied if we REALLY want to free up another position. Though I wouldn't unless we really needed to make that 4th change and there were no retirements or players going to GWS.

 

[sr36]

Even with a McCarthy he could be delisted then rookied if super keen to retain which is a possible get around as we saw a couple of years ago with young Tobias Thoolan.
Same could be done with maybe Ben Sinclair as an example who could be delisted then rookied if we REALLY want to free up another position. Though I wouldn't unless we really needed to make that 4th change and there were no retirements or players going to GWS.

I doubt Macarthy would make it to the rookie draft. But I agree that we may go the delist then redraft/rookie option this year - perhaps with someone from the last draft.

 

[TradeDraft]

I hope the Pies keep there High Draft Picks this year as we have traded them for the last 2 Seasons.

Your Thoughts?

 

[sr36]

I hope the Pies keep there High Draft Picks this year as we have traded them for the last 2 Seasons.

Your Thoughts?

I wouldn't mind seeing us go a step further and trade into a stronger draft position.