Collingwood - Media missing our painful past

[Kick It 2 Me]

If my missus come up with the 'it's only a game' tripe one more time I'll spew.

 

[domus]

most of the current collingwood team supported other teams before they joined the club..... it's the pie supporters who infect them with sorry tales from past centuries. Do them a favour and forget the past and stop wallowing in the "done me wrong" stories like pigs in s**t. Last week we lost a third time to the same crowd.... I think that says something.

Understanding your history, be it your own family's, your country's or your football club's is essential if you are going to understand what drives their passion and behaviour. It isn't wallowing to state facts about your past. It clarifies why are where we are. If we hadn't lost so many close Grand Finals Collingwood fans would have a very different attitude and our past is what separates us from every other club. To say supporters are infecting the current players with sorry tales from past centuries is utterly ridiculous. You might want to inform Nick Maxwell and Eddie that those regular talks from past players and supporters like Joffa are causing us to lose finals because we are infecting the players with facts about our past.

Your final comment is equally silly. Are you attempting to say because we ultimately lost to the Eagles three times that this apparently makes losing a flag after leading until the final minute and forty five seconds easy to digest? I am at a loss to understand what point you are trying to make.

 

[domus]

I’m normally an advocate of knowing one’s history. I teach History.

In this instance I actually think it would be positive for our Club to remove itself from its past as it is simply too debilitating. We need to try and create a new ‘narrative’ for ourselves. Maybe pretend we are the New York Yankees, The French National Soccer Team or the Soviet Ice Hockey Team of the 1970’s. Just try it and see if it works.

Anticipate championship play offs as something we expect to win not opportunities for more failure.

Young players entering the club should be given little or no understanding of the history that came before them. This shouldn’t be a problem as according to Adam Ramanauskus none of them these days “know who Dermott Brereton is”. Eddie should be made to shut up about “our great club” and just quietly administer like any other president. Joffa should retire the gold jacket. Wins should be treated as a business as usual routine state of affairs with little emotion expressed.

We can inform young players and fans that our Club has a rich and colourful past but we focus entirely on the future. A few good things happened in the 1930’s (but for God sake let’s stop skiting about The Machine) and apart from that let’s treat the last 50 years the way the Japanese treat World War Two. If we don’t we will never change and will always be locked into this self flagellating cycle of misery, heartbreak and lost opportunity.

Time for Collingwood to write a new story. (Not one like the Starks in Game of Thrones).

But I don't think the understanding of our past has had any influence on our losing the 2018 grand final. I don't think too many of our teams have personally felt the "collywobbles" during grand finals-there have been too many different teams made up of entirely different players for this to be an explanation. It is literally an unbelievable phenomenon and a heartbreaking one.

 

[jackcass]

I think the media has treated us very kindly all year and I have felt a great deal of love and support for Bucks coming from most journalists. I think many in the media are quietly shattered that the story of Buck's redemptive year didn't have the fairytale ending which would have supplied them with weeks of material.

However, in the aftermath of yet another devastating grand final loss, I have sensed a complete absence of historical perspective being articulated in the media, be it newspapers, radio or television. I am annoyed enough when well meaning friends and acquaintances tell me they know just how I feel and how they too have felt the heartache of a GF defeat. I still recall Alistair Clarkson talking about the dark, dark place he went to after the 2011 preliminary final defeat. He was depressed and angry. The whole club was shattered. I must confess to feeling less than a modicum of sympathy for this man and his club who have experienced unparalleled success. We had the temerity to prevent them from playing in another grand final!

Gerard Whateley alluded to our past briefly on the grand final episode of 360, but other than that there has been scant referencing to our pain wracked history. I think it is almost unfathomable. I have experienced most of the nightmare grand final losses and countless preliminary and semi finals that often get forgotten. I don't forget any of them. When I mentioned this in a thread recently, a Saints fan wrote- " at least you've seen them win one." He is right- but that will never take away the pain of the seemingly endless losses on the last day of the season. Cam Mooney says he is still haunted by his performance in the 2008 loss to Hawthorn more than he is comforted by the two flags he won.

Collingwood have played in 16 grand finals since my birth. I was born two days before we won the 1958 GF- my dad missed the game because of me! I don't count that as a premiership in my lifetime because my passion for the game began around 1964. I was fully aware of the Pies being my team and still remember dad pulling me onto his lap and telling me to watch Gabbo's run, late in the last quarter. I sensed dad's heartbreak rather than felt any myself, but in 1966 I was a passionate pie fan. I went to the second semi and saw Tuddy kick 7 goals and take us into the granny. Dad couldn't get me a ticket but he went along. I lay on the floor next to our old wireless and didn't move the whole afternoon. I remember the pain when we lost and waiting for dad to come home so we could talk about it.
From then on it became so much more torturous. I was fanatical in my love for Collingwood. I am not going to rewrite our history but here is a rundown in brief on what we have endured.

• 1964- four points-stolen in the last minute by a back pocket who flagrantly disobeyed Norm Smith's instructions and wandered for ward to snap the winning goal after Gabbo had put us in front with his famous run.
• 1966-one point, Wayward snap by Breen. Tuddy streaming forward with one last chance and bombing it to CHF only to see Bob Murray take a match saving grab.
• 1970-the worst. Seven goals up at halftime. We all know what happened. I wept openly even before the siren sounded.
• 1971-played Richmond in the first semi final and were two points down at three quarter time before being smashed in the last term. Lost by 44 points.
• 1972- John Greening king hit and lost to us on the eve of the finals. Finished top four but bowed out in straight sets missing Greening and McKenna (130 goals this season) in both games.
• 1973-Finished on top. Flag favourites-only lost three games for the year. Led Carlton midway through the last term in the second semi only to see them overrun us and beat us by 20 points. We faced Richmond in the prelim and dominated them from the opening bounce. We led by seven goals just before halftime. The tigers fought back and in a tense final couple of minutes Bartlett snapped the winner from the Punt road pocket. Out in straight sets.
• 1974- On top of the ladder in round 15 only to see us struggle to hang onto 4th when the finals began. We smashed the Dogs before being thrashed by the Hawks and eliminated from the finals once again.
• 1975- Finished all over Richmond in an elimination final-charging forward when the siren sounded-beaten by four points.
• Wooden spoon.
• 1977- Finished on top. Lost Carmen through suspension-our best player and most damaging forward. Led North by 27 points at three quarter time. North stormed home and hit the front. Twiggy Dunne took a pack mark and levelled the scores-drawn game.
• 1977 -In the replay trailed most of the day, came charging home in the last and ten minutes in trailed by 11 points with all of the momentum. Roos went into another gear and they won comfortably.
• 1978-Lost to North in the prelim by ten points.
• 1979- Lost to Carton in the grand final by 5 points after leading by four goals in the first term on a wet, slippery ground. Lost to a controversial tap in from the boundary by Wayne Harmes. Five point defeat.
• 1980-Smashed by Richmond in the grand final by 81 points.
• 1981- Led Carlton late in the third term of the grand final by 21 points-rain falling, crowd chanting. Lost by 20 points when we slowed to a walk in the last term. Devastating.
• 1984-Humiliated in the preliminary final by Essendon-140 points. I stayed till the end.
• 1988- Finished with the double chance. Out in straight sets to Carlton and Melbourne.
• 1989- Lost to Melbourne in an elimination final and I almost got thrown down the stairs from the top level of the stand at Waverley.
• 1990-win a flag!
• 1992- Finish top three but new system sees us play St Kilda in a cutthroat final at VFL Park-lost by 8 points.
• 1994- Play West Coast who were top -we were eighth under the old system. Given zero chance we wet West and if McGuane had held a chest mark 25 metres out from goal-we would have won in a game considered to be impossible for us to win.
• 2002- Play the Lions in the grand final but lose a key defender to suspension-Cam Cloke. The Lions team is considered to be one of the best of all time. Rocca kicks a goal to put us in front early in the last quarter-we all rise as one. The ump calls it a behind. Fraser marks and puts us in front with around ten minutes to play as the rain tumbles down. Bucks breaks from the middle, takes a bounce, goes long to the pocket-Darryl White pulls Tarrant's jumper off his back then belts him over the ear. Robert Walls is outraged and cannot believe Tarrant wasn't awarded a free ten metres from goal. The ball is rushed down the other end and Lynch is awarded a contentious free and puts the Lions back in front. Akermanis seals the deal with a minute or so to go.
• 2003- lose our most important player in the prelim-Rocca suspended-we lose our heart and soul. The lions smash us.
• 2006 -smashed by Dogs in an elimination final.
• 2007- Brilliant extra time win in the west puts us in the preliminary final with the unbeatable Cats. We match them all the way-with only a minute or two on the clock, Ablett Junior snaps a goal that gets the Cats over the line by five points. They smash a hapless Port the following week by 16 goals.
• 2008- We beat Adelaide in an elimination final only to be thrashed by the saints the following week.
• 2009-Lose the qualifying final to saints- Anthony wins the first semi against the Crows before we meet the Cats in the prelim and get pumped by 8 goals.
• 2010-Red hot favourites- Milne could have tormented us for eternity had the ball not taken a strange bounce. How my heart and mind survived that moment is be yond my comprehension. Won the replay convincingly.
• 2011-Grand Final- led the Cats by three goals and looked to be in control in the second quarter. Tight, tense tussle all day till Cats break it open in the last term and we lose by six goals.
• 2012-lose prelim to Sydney after team attended funeral of John Mcarthy.
• 2013-lost elimination final to Port Adelaide after leading in the third term.
• 2018- Grand Final-lead Eagles by 29 points in first term. Lead until the final minute and forty five seconds. Lose grand final by five points.

Seriously, I challenge any professional sporting club to present a more heartbreaking, agonizing history than that.

You try and tell the young kids of today that and they just won't believe you!

 

[JB1975]

I’m normally an advocate of knowing one’s history. I teach History.

In this instance I actually think it would be positive for our Club to remove itself from its past as it is simply too debilitating. We need to try and create a new ‘narrative’ for ourselves. Maybe pretend we are the New York Yankees, The French National Soccer Team or the Soviet Ice Hockey Team of the 1970’s. Just try it and see if it works.

Anticipate championship play offs as something we expect to win not opportunities for more failure.

Young players entering the club should be given little or no understanding of the history that came before them. This shouldn’t be a problem as according to Adam Ramanauskus none of them these days “know who Dermott Brereton is”. Eddie should be made to shut up about “our great club” and just quietly administer like any other president. Joffa should retire the gold jacket. Wins should be treated as a business as usual routine state of affairs with little emotion expressed.

We can inform young players and fans that our Club has a rich and colourful past but we focus entirely on the future. A few good things happened in the 1930’s (but for God sake let’s stop skiting about The Machine) and apart from that let’s treat the last 50 years the way the Japanese treat World War Two. If we don’t we will never change and will always be locked into this self flagellating cycle of misery, heartbreak and lost opportunity.

Time for Collingwood to write a new story. (Not one like the Starks in Game of Thrones).

'The past isn't past. It's not even dead'. I think it was William Shatner who said this in Star Trek, or maybe it was William Faulkner...

Whoever it was, the quote has occupied my mind a bit throughout the week. I admit to a feeling that the club needs to 'unburden' itself of its history in some way, but I'm not sure that the past (of a club, an individual, a country etc.) is ever so easily pushed aside. When Ed delivers his lessons in Collingwood history to newly-arrived Pies, I doubt that (a) they dwell upon the painful chapters or emphasise our inability to get the job done in Grand Finals, or (b) that the young players take in much more than a very general sense of a successful club of humble origins. And yet, in weird and fantastical ways which I am trying to understand, the past nevertheless has a way of warping the present until it is 'dealt with'.

So, what to do? As politicians well know, the past can be quite a useful tool in mobilising the present. Now I don't have all the answers, f*** all in fact, but maybe it's better to forge a sense of mission from Collingwood's impressive accumulation of failures over the last half-century. Our past can't be forgotten, shouldn't be forgotten: it just needs a narrative which will bring about a different future.

I'll get back to you when I've worked out what that narrative should be...

EDIT: The (mis)quote above can be actually be attributed to JB1975, whereas William Faulkner may have said something more sensible such as: 'The past isn't dead: it isn't even past'.

 

[jackcass]

If my missus come up with the 'it's only a game' tripe one more time I'll spew.

Moments like those you start thinking "it's only a certificate".

 

[wednesdaywarrior]

'The past isn't past. It's not even dead'. I think it was William Shatner who said this in Star Trek, or maybe it was William Faulkner...

Whoever it was, the quote has occupied my mind a bit throughout the week. I admit to a feeling that the club needs to 'unburden' itself of its history in some way, but I'm not sure that the past (of a club, an individual, a country etc.) is ever so easily pushed aside. When Ed delivers his lessons in Collingwood history to newly-arrived Pies, I doubt that (a) they dwell upon the painful chapters or emphasise our inability to get the job done in Grand Finals, or (b) that the young players take in much more than a very general sense of a successful club of humble origins. And yet, in weird and fantastical ways which I am trying to understand, the past nevertheless has a way of warping the present until it is 'dealt with'.

So, what to do? As politicians well know, the past can be quite a useful tool in mobilising the present. Now I don't have all the answers, f*** all in fact, but maybe it's better to forge a sense of mission from Collingwood's impressive accumulation of failures over the last half-century. Our past can't be forgotten, shouldn't be forgotten: it just needs a narrative which will bring about a different future.

I'll get back to you when I've worked out what that narrative should be...

Thanks JB.

I haven’t done much but lurk on BF the past couple of years but I always enjoy reading your posts. Always thoughtful and intelligent.

I don’t know how we arrest the narrative either but I think expunging the needless Collingwood fanfare like Matthews did in ‘90 is a way forward.

All the best mate.

 

[JB1975]

Thanks JB.

I haven’t done much but lurk on BF the past couple of years but I always enjoy reading your posts. Always thoughtful and intelligent.

I don’t know how we arrest the narrative either but I think expunging the needless Collingwood fanfare like Matthews did in ‘90 is a way forward.

All the best mate.

Appreciate the kind words, WW.

I suppose all we can do is hope that this team writes its own history, preferably something redemptive.

 

[Markfs]

Understanding your history, be it your own family's, your country's or your football club's is essential if you are going to understand what drives their passion and behaviour. It isn't wallowing to state facts about your past. It clarifies why are where we are. If we hadn't lost so many close Grand Finals Collingwood fans would have a very different attitude and our past is what separates us from every other club. To say supporters are infecting the current players with sorry tales from past centuries is utterly ridiculous. You might want to inform Nick Maxwell and Eddie that those regular talks from past players and supporters like Joffa are causing us to lose finals because we are infecting the players with facts about our past.

Your final comment is equally silly. Are you attempting to say because we ultimately lost to the Eagles three times that this apparently makes losing a flag after leading until the final minute and forty five seconds easy to digest? I am at a loss to understand what point you are trying to make.

dealing with the last, i'm saying that it isnt bad luck that we lost to the eagles or some historical bad luck or bad kama or something from the 1960s. we lost to them three times this year

as for the getting in of old players, i havent been there but i doubt that they're talking about losing and the bad kama it has generated and the need to win to make up for losses in the past.

buckley started off the year by saying that he was going to focus on the positives. i think that was a good move.

as for loading up players with expectations from the past, it's interesting that a few teams have started using tactics of telling jokes or getting one of the younger players to give a chat in the huddle, in order to lighten up the mood and free them up to take risks. i'm told that the current generation has a bit of a phobia about outside expectations and that might be true.

in end it doesnt matter what i think, as we'll wallow in the past and load up the players with all expectations, fears, etc etc.

 

[mocamagic]

Don't you mean ruck infringements. Nothing does my head in worse then a ump picking a free out of the ruck when both are wrestling each other.

Can anyone shed any light on the free against Grundy when we had just kicked the first 2 goals of the last quarter?
At the ground I couldn’t see anything and on the tv you can’t tell as they are still showing a replay of de goey’s goal

 

[Anzacday]

Can anyone shed any light on the free against Grundy when we had just kicked the first 2 goals of the last quarter?
At the ground I couldn’t see anything and on the tv you can’t tell as they are still showing a replay of de goey’s goal

I haven't watched a replay, but my guess is he stuck his arm out.
Some umpires call that as a block.
I think it was a bad bounce from memory and Grundy could have been viewed as protecting his space.

 

[Drought Break]

a

Can anyone shed any light on the free against Grundy when we had just kicked the first 2 goals of the last quarter?
At the ground I couldn’t see anything and on the tv you can’t tell as they are still showing a replay of de goey’s goal

a premeditated free decided prior to bouncing the ball by a cheating umpire. Nothing in it. They put the whistle away in the last quarter except for that extremely soft one. A huge momentum turner and should get more focus than the maynard block.

 

[mocamagic]

a

a premeditated free decided prior to bouncing the ball by a cheating umpire. Nothing in it. They put the whistle away in the last quarter except for that extremely soft one. A huge momentum turner and should get more focus than the maynard block.

Thanks that's exactly how it felt to me

 

[Help My Club]

"The punching above our weight is entirely the issue. We wear it as a badge of honour instead of a mark or failure.

I am bloody sick and tired of having to punch above our weight when we are the biggest club with the most resaources. We are the bloody heavy weights. We should be in our own weight division. We haven't been by and large for half a century due predomintly through our own arrogance and administrative ineptitude."

MarkT2 - couldn't agree more. Particularly the point about wearing it as a badge off honour. That is so on the mark. You only have to read the comments from most supporters on these sites and just generally post the GF loss. All very disappointed but extremely proud.

A club with Collingwood's abundant resources and significant competitive advantages should never be viewed as punching above our weight. But most times this is exactly how it is (except 2010-11). Hence the "badge of honour" mantra. Why is this? Why have we, the club/supporters, given away our power (subconsciously of course) over the past 50 odd years? I don't have the absolute answer but this is where I agree with "Wednesdaywarrior" - acknowledge the past albeit briefly and then let it go and move on. The happenings of the past 50 years serves no great purpose moving forward. Let it go. And of course this is where McGuire is a bit of a problem. For all his good, he perpetuates this mindset, amongst other non-supporting stuff.

Possibly a new dawn is coming. A rigorous internal investigation last year has resulted in positive change. But again I question had McGuire had more control of the agenda, would he have parachuted Lethlean into the CEO role. Thank goodness for Murphy having the strength and fortitude to stand firm and make the right calls, not the "jobs for the boys" call. There is still more work to be done in cleansing this old Collingwood mindset but hopefully they are heading in the right direction. Otherwise we will continue to get what we get.

 

[MarkT2]

Appreciate the kind words, WW.

I suppose all we can do is hope that this team writes its own history, preferably something redemptive.

This is why I was so aggitated at how we pulled apart what we had in 2010. 2011 was the first time we had defended a premiership since the 1930s. I still think we shot ourselves in the foot in 2011 when we were the best side in the comp by a margin. It all fell away after that.

We have to build a list to win a flag and finally win more than one. That is the only way we can change the grand final narrative of Collingwood.

 

[Help My Club]

This is why I was so aggitated at how we pulled apart what we had in 2010. 2011 was the first time we had defended a premiership since the 1930s. I still think we shot ourselves in the foot in 2011 when we were the best side in the comp by a margin. It all fell away after that.

We have to build a list to win a flag and finally win more than one. That is the only way we can change the grand final narrative of Collingwood.

Again, spot on.

Yes its old ground, but the unwinding of the 2010/11 side ahead of time was an unmitigated disaster. As you rightly say, we went into our 2011 premiership defense as the best side in the comp. A rarity for Collingwood. And the club found a way to f--k it up. Our honourable performances in 2018 and possibly beyond do not in anyway erase the sins of the recent pass. Furthermore, to break this cursed GF narrative, we need to win multiple premierships. Of recent history, 2010-11 was out best chance. Will it come again?

 

[DidakDelight]

Furthermore, to break this cursed GF narrative, we need to win multiple premierships. Of recent history, 2010-11 was out best chance. Will it come again?

It really is as simple as that.

The current narrative is that we are prone to lose GFs.

Winning 2 flags in a 5 year era will change that narrative. Even winning one more soon will do it.

 

[Help My Club]

It really is as simple as that.

The current narrative is that we are prone to lose GFs.

Winning 2 flags in a 5 year era will change that narrative. Even winning one more soon will do it.

Agree, suggest that winning the flag this year may have broken the narrative - 2 in 9 years. But alas it didn't happen. And none of us are really surprised, which in itself is a deep seated issue.

Must win at least 1 in the next 2 years. Non negotiable. No excuses. No externalising blame. Just must.

 

[BigVic]

Revisiting this and I am relieved we broke our curse on the weekend.

 

[stormskye]

Premierships. I'd love to see us win a close one. That would be the ultimate adrenalin rush.

You got your wish mate