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If bucks was coaching, we wouldn't have won all the games we did. There wouldn't have been this will to win. Or the style we play. We would be playing boring style once again, bored to death that slow ball movement.
 
buckleyist1958 said:
I thought about this the other day tbh. I don’t believe under Buckley this year we would be playing off for a top 4 spot (I still think we would’ve made finals though with the side we’ve got This year). However , I believe our next 3 years won’t be as strong under the fly as they would’ve been under Bucks. I’m an optimistic supporter in general - but I believe this will be our best year for the next 3 or 4 because we’re so easy to work out and Fly has only ever coached one way under one style . I would brutally love to be proven wrong obviously
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Lay off the pipe mate
 

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buckleyist1958 said:
I thought about this the other day tbh. I don’t believe under Buckley this year we would be playing off for a top 4 spot (I still think we would’ve made finals though with the side we’ve got This year). However , I believe our next 3 years won’t be as strong under the fly as they would’ve been under Bucks. I’m an optimistic supporter in general - but I believe this will be our best year for the next 3 or 4 because we’re so easy to work out and Fly has only ever coached one way under one style . I would brutally love to be proven wrong obviously
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We'd be getting the number 1 draft pick the next 4 years if Bucks was still coach.
 
An important difference between Bucks & Fly is that Bucks didn't really do any sort of "apprenticeship" & basically learnt on the job.
Things certainly clicked in 2018 & he was a kick away from being a premiership coach.
On balance, though, his time as coach has been disappointing.
Fly, on the other hand, has worked with different clubs, including premiership coaches in Clarkson & Hardwick, so he's had a more rounded experience before becoming a senior coach.
 
Bianconeri said:
Have to disagree on the bolded, I think this season has laid bare his inability to get the best out of a playing group and any club would be wary to touch him.
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True. But if history is anything to go by, there will be around a dozen senior coach openings over the next 5 or so years and Buckley is still young and would imagine he’ll be given another chance. Buckley’s greatest asset is that he is committed to continuous improvement. He will have learnt a lot of lessons over the journey, there will be a lot of screwups he won’t make again.
 
gouki88 said:
I legitimately cannot fathom someone thinking Buckley would be better for this team than Fly over the next 3-4 years. Literally mind-boggling
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My logic is that this year we’ve been playing erratic helter-Skelter football - which is definitely why we have won so many games and why I believe we wouldn’t have won as many with Buckley as coach This year. It’s a new and fresh and exciting for the group And that’s why we look so up and about off. Yet as we saw against Sydney we are so easily worked out, and heavily reliant on our core group of players in Pendlebury , Sidebottom , crisp , degoey, daicos, Elliot , Moore and Howe (and Grundy but we wont count him) This is the core group Buckley is speaking abt. Over the next 3-4 years these players are going significant drop away or outright retire leaving our inexperienced side who have now been engrained with this “go go go” richmondesque game style which would’ve already been well and truly worked out by the rest of the competition , and we’ll be left with fly who seems with all due respect a very one dimensional coach , with the help of two already failed coaches in Bolton and leppa to build a less obvious game style around a much more inexperienced side without those solid backbone players. Also, let’s not forget we have had unbelievable luck this year- we could’ve easily been beaten by North, Hawthorn and Essendon 3 weak sides if fly didn’t have the Grace of God behind him. Also don’t forget we literally get pommelled in centre clearance , and with Grundy seemingly on the way out , and with our core players ageing and retiring it’s only gonna get worse. I am so so hoping I am proven terribly wrong and I look like an even bigger of an idiot but it’s just the way I see it. And let’s not forget that if there was one more kick in 2018 we wouldn’t even be having the discussion because NB would still be coach. But at the very least I find the blatant disrespect of probably our greatest figure of the modern era from Collingwood supporters pretty sad and ridiculous. I am Still a Fly Guy and thankful for what he’s done for us this year tho
 
Bianconeri said:
Have to disagree on the bolded, I think this season has laid bare his inability to get the best out of a playing group and any club would be wary to touch him.
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Last year Howe, Moore and Murphy were missing most, or large chunks of the year. Howe and Moore’s leadership alone has a huge impact on the team.
In fact Buckley made the later point very early in 2022, when discussing the basis for an improved season.
So while McCrae’s game plan has removed the shackles, it’s undeniable the unavailability of critical players impacted 2021 more than the idea Buckley failed to get the best out of the players.
Buckley also won Coach of the Year in 2018, and ask any opposition supporter who’s club is looking for a Coach and I guarantee Buckley is on the list.
 
No SPIN said:
Last year Howe, Moore and Murphy were missing most, or large chunks of the year. Howe and Moore’s leadership alone has a huge impact on the team.
In fact Buckley made the later point very early in 2022, when discussing the basis for an improved season.
So while McCrae’s game plan has removed the shackles, it’s undeniable the unavailability of critical players impacted 2021 more than the idea Buckley failed to get the best out of the players.
Buckley also won Coach of the Year in 2018, and ask any opposition supporter who’s club is looking for a Coach and I guarantee Buckley is on the list.
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Grouping Murphy in that list is weird to me, because it was Buckley who was insisting on playing him in different positions, and we had Roughead.

Without Leppitsch, I don't think Murphy becomes who he is now. And without Fly, there is no Leppa.

We've also had Grundy played 6 games, Adams miss a chunk and De Goey has missed a larger chunk. Not quite the same extent as last season, but still worth acknowledging.
 
buckleyist1958 said:
My logic is that this year we’ve been playing erratic helter-Skelter football - which is definitely why we have won so many games and why I believe we wouldn’t have won as many with Buckley as coach This year. It’s a new and fresh and exciting for the group And that’s why we look so up and about off. Yet as we saw against Sydney we are so easily worked out, and heavily reliant on our core group of players in Pendlebury , Sidebottom , crisp , degoey, daicos, Elliot , Moore and Howe (and Grundy but we wont count him) This is the core group Buckley is speaking abt. Over the next 3-4 years these players are going significant drop away or outright retire leaving our inexperienced side who have now been engrained with this “go go go” richmondesque game style which would’ve already been well and truly worked out by the rest of the competition , and we’ll be left with fly who seems with all due respect a very one dimensional coach , with the help of two already failed coaches in Bolton and leppa to build a less obvious game style around a much more inexperienced side without those solid backbone players. Also, let’s not forget we have had unbelievable luck this year- we could’ve easily been beaten by North, Hawthorn and Essendon 3 weak sides if fly didn’t have the Grace of God behind him. Also don’t forget we literally get pommelled in centre clearance , and with Grundy seemingly on the way out , and with our core players ageing and retiring it’s only gonna get worse. I am so so hoping I am proven terribly wrong and I look like an even bigger of an idiot but it’s just the way I see it. And let’s not forget that if there was one more kick in 2018 we wouldn’t even be having the discussion because NB would still be coach. But at the very least I find the blatant disrespect of probably our greatest figure of the modern era from Collingwood supporters pretty sad and ridiculous. I am Still a Fly Guy and thankful for what he’s done for us this year tho
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Your post doesn’t explain why Buckley would get better results in the next 3-4 years.
 
buckleyist1958 said:
My logic is that this year we’ve been playing erratic helter-Skelter football - which is definitely why we have won so many games and why I believe we wouldn’t have won as many with Buckley as coach This year. It’s a new and fresh and exciting for the group And that’s why we look so up and about off. Yet as we saw against Sydney we are so easily worked out, and heavily reliant on our core group of players in Pendlebury , Sidebottom , crisp , degoey, daicos, Elliot , Moore and Howe (and Grundy but we wont count him) This is the core group Buckley is speaking abt. Over the next 3-4 years these players are going significant drop away or outright retire leaving our inexperienced side who have now been engrained with this “go go go” richmondesque game style which would’ve already been well and truly worked out by the rest of the competition , and we’ll be left with fly who seems with all due respect a very one dimensional coach , with the help of two already failed coaches in Bolton and leppa to build a less obvious game style around a much more inexperienced side without those solid backbone players. Also, let’s not forget we have had unbelievable luck this year- we could’ve easily been beaten by North, Hawthorn and Essendon 3 weak sides if fly didn’t have the Grace of God behind him. Also don’t forget we literally get pommelled in centre clearance , and with Grundy seemingly on the way out , and with our core players ageing and retiring it’s only gonna get worse. I am so so hoping I am proven terribly wrong and I look like an even bigger of an idiot but it’s just the way I see it. And let’s not forget that if there was one more kick in 2018 we wouldn’t even be having the discussion because NB would still be coach. But at the very least I find the blatant disrespect of probably our greatest figure of the modern era from Collingwood supporters pretty sad and ridiculous. I am Still a Fly Guy and thankful for what he’s done for us this year tho
Click to expand...
I think it's a bit early to be describing Fly as a one dimensional coach.
The clearance issue is at least partly due to not having suitable players - hopefully to be addressed with the development of guys like Macrae, McInnes, Draper, etc. & bringing in a more experienced inside mid, such as Taranto.
I'm not sure if the latter is the best fit, but it's about who is available & gettable without selling the farm.
 
No SPIN said:
Your post doesn’t explain why Buckley would get better results in the next 3-4 years.
Click to expand...
I did sort of cover it that rant- basically because Fly is a one dimensional coach and Buckley has a much more sophisticated, tactical footy brain and in modern football systems win premierships and moreover allows for weaker lists to stay competitive for longer
 

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JuniorB said:
I think it's a bit early to be describing Fly as a one dimensional coach.
The clearance issue is at least partly due to not having suitable players - hopefully to be addressed with the development of guys like Macrae, McInnes, Draper, etc. & bringing in a more experienced inside mid, such as Taranto.
I'm not sure if the latter is the best fit, but it's about who is available & gettable without selling the farm.
Click to expand...
It’s true it is a bit early I’m simply giving my opinion for this point in time
 
gouki88 said:
Grouping Murphy in that list is weird to me, because it was Buckley who was insisting on playing him in different positions, and we had Roughead.

Without Leppitsch, I don't think Murphy becomes who he is now. And without Fly, there is no Leppa.

We've also had Grundy played 6 games, Adams miss a chunk and De Goey has missed a larger chunk. Not quite the same extent as last season, but still worth acknowledging.
Click to expand...
We played Madge last year, without injury Murphy is likely to have replaced him. Remembering Murphy’s best games although limited we’re always in the backline.
Adams missed much of 2021.
Agree with Grundy, but JDG looks like playing about the same number of games as 2021.
 
buckleyist1958 said:
I did sort of cover it that rant- basically because Fly is a one dimensional coach and Buckley has a much more sophisticated, tactical footy brain and in modern football systems win premierships and moreover allows for weaker lists to stay competitive for longer
Click to expand...
So you make the conclusion that Fly is one dimensional, based on a SINGLE year, compared to 10 years with Buckley.
That’s a very premature, unsophisticated and therefore invalid conclusion.
 
Jen2310 said:
If bucks was coaching, we wouldn't have won all the games we did. There wouldn't have been this will to win. Or the style we play. We would be playing boring style once again, bored to death that slow ball movement.
Click to expand...
You need the cattle for This sort of game style.
No SPIN said:
So you make the conclusion that Fly is one dimensional, based on a SINGLE year, compared to 10 years with Buckley.
That’s a very premature, unsophisticated and therefore invalid conclusion.
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As I said I know it’s early , but we’ve had times this year and opportunities where we needed to change the way we were doing things and we looked completed depleted and trapped or like when Geelong ran all over us. We barely got past North Melbourne a historically terrible team and got beat by west coast. There have been plenty of games where we’ve legitimately played 1 quarter of footy in which we won the contest and just scraped by. That’s just my opinion for this point in time and as they say - opinions at like arseholes everyone’s got one
 
buckleyist1958 said:
You need the cattle for This sort of game style.

As I said I know it’s early , but we’ve had times this year and opportunities where we needed to change the way we were doing things and we looked completed depleted and trapped or like when Geelong ran all over us. We barely got past North Melbourne a historically terrible team and got beat by west coast. There have been plenty of games where we’ve legitimately played 1 quarter of footy in which we won the contest and just scraped by. That’s just my opinion for this point in time and as they say - opinions at like arseholes everyone’s got one
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new game plans take time to implement. This is something that will take even another 12 months. In the Geelong game, we just spent too much energy in the first 3 quarters, and ran out of puff. We learned a lot since then. We are still aiming to keep getting better every week; but what we are doing will stand up for years to come.
 
Jen2310 said:
new game plans take time to implement. This is something that will take even another 12 months. In the Geelong game, we just spent too much energy in the first 3 quarters, and ran out of puff. We learned a lot since then. We are still aiming to keep getting better every week; but what we are doing will stand up for years to come.
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That last line is my main disagreement but I hope you’re right mate. And I reckon it occurred a couple times after that Geelong game- Carlton, GWS even after our first quarter blitz against Essendon they just controlled us for 3 2 and half quarters. And they’re a shambles of a team. As I said I pray that you’re right
 
buckleyist1958 said:
You need the cattle for This sort of game style.

As I said I know it’s early , but we’ve had times this year and opportunities where we needed to change the way we were doing things and we looked completed depleted and trapped or like when Geelong ran all over us. We barely got past North Melbourne a historically terrible team and got beat by west coast. There have been plenty of games where we’ve legitimately played 1 quarter of footy in which we won the contest and just scraped by. That’s just my opinion for this point in time and as they say - opinions at like arseholes everyone’s got one
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Fly made adjustments in the 2nd half of the Melb game, that evened up stoppages and CP to win the game.
 
76woodenspooners said:
True. But if history is anything to go by, there will be around a dozen senior coach openings over the next 5 or so years and Buckley is still young and would imagine he’ll be given another chance. Buckley’s greatest asset is that he is committed to continuous improvement. He will have learnt a lot of lessons over the journey, there will be a lot of screwups he won’t make again.
Click to expand...
Maybe that’s true as a player but the exact opposite happened during his coaching career.

Even now that he’s lost his coaching gig instead of going to another club as an assistant and gaining more experience and trying improve he’s gone into media instead.

There may be openings for him in the future but I can’t see any reason why a club would pick him as their senior coach.
 
buckleyist1958 said:
My logic is that this year we’ve been playing erratic helter-Skelter football - which is definitely why we have won so many games and why I believe we wouldn’t have won as many with Buckley as coach This year. It’s a new and fresh and exciting for the group And that’s why we look so up and about off. Yet as we saw against Sydney we are so easily worked out, and heavily reliant on our core group of players in Pendlebury , Sidebottom , crisp , degoey, daicos, Elliot , Moore and Howe (and Grundy but we wont count him) This is the core group Buckley is speaking abt. Over the next 3-4 years these players are going significant drop away or outright retire leaving our inexperienced side who have now been engrained with this “go go go” richmondesque game style which would’ve already been well and truly worked out by the rest of the competition , and we’ll be left with fly who seems with all due respect a very one dimensional coach , with the help of two already failed coaches in Bolton and leppa to build a less obvious game style around a much more inexperienced side without those solid backbone players. Also, let’s not forget we have had unbelievable luck this year- we could’ve easily been beaten by North, Hawthorn and Essendon 3 weak sides if fly didn’t have the Grace of God behind him. Also don’t forget we literally get pommelled in centre clearance , and with Grundy seemingly on the way out , and with our core players ageing and retiring it’s only gonna get worse. I am so so hoping I am proven terribly wrong and I look like an even bigger of an idiot but it’s just the way I see it. And let’s not forget that if there was one more kick in 2018 we wouldn’t even be having the discussion because NB would still be coach. But at the very least I find the blatant disrespect of probably our greatest figure of the modern era from Collingwood supporters pretty sad and ridiculous. I am Still a Fly Guy and thankful for what he’s done for us this year tho
Click to expand...
The gameplan is wayyy more nuanced than your simple summary of 'helter skelter'. It relies on defensive pressure and field position.

Sydney didn't necessarily 'work us out' there is no secret to how we play. Sydney won because they went ultra defensive on the skinny ground and converted their chances and we didn't. We were always within striking reach on the scoreboard.
 
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