Collingwood Player Review vs Carlton

[5_Flockhart]

I will call a spade a spade and concede that Gault is not playing very confident or effective football right now. However we need to persist with him, he has to be our straightest kick for goal right now (not since Rusling, has someone donning the black and white been such a dead eye dick)

I'm not going to pretend I know how to mould players into class footballers but I have no concerns with him being in our starting 22 for the next few weeks. If he gets the odd free kick or easy mark inside 50 he adds an extra goal or two making up for Cloke's inevitable misses.

Clearly he needs to stop being so soft at the footy, but I'll be blindly optimistic and assume that problem will sort itself out.

 

[McGuanes Seven]

Interesting you thought Gault did ok? Not sure how he went ok, I thought he was rather poor and the level looks to be beyond him imo.

I guess with nothing else coming through we have to persists but...

We went through him a massive amount of times in that first half and he was convincingly bet and at sea for all of it. His goal came about due to Pendles trying to get him involved instead of taking the shot himself only on a slight angle 35m out and giving to Gault un-marked 30 out dead in front.

He made a few tackles and took a few marks but the weight of ball that was directed his way he was actually quite poor and was soundly beaten there were some passages like when he didn't even attempt at marking the ball went straight pass him and out of bounds.

Overall was a great team effort and was good to put them to the sword.

I had similar thoughts after watching Gault at the ground on ANZAC Day. His presence required Fletcher to run with him most of the time. That is, Essendon sufficiently rated him that it was not their plan for Fletcher to leave him and double team Cloke. Gault certainly played his part in this by leading out to the flanks on the fifty giving Cloke plenty of space.

The questions for me are things like whether Witts or Karnezis Would draw the defender in the same way if they played that role? Gault seems to be steadily improving, but we better served by a shorter non ruck like Karnezis or a less mobile but stronger Witts who would ruck better?

Ultimately, the best outcome would be for us to have rucks like Hawks who are serviceable in both ruck and forward role. I think we are going to need more than Grundy in the ruck against the better sideS and later in the year when he tires. This means either Gault and White do more in the ruck role or more in the forward role.

 

[raghav]

Great review snoop.... Sums it up perfectly. So happy to see all the young guys continue to stand up like Ramsay, Oxley, Grundy, Adams, Langdon just to mention a few. Still potentially 7-8 best 22 players not playing last night so future looks very positive.

If only we could fix Clokes goal kicking [emoji23]


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I think that is mission impossible. either Collingwood hasn't got anyone on the coaching staff that can teach him how to hold and drop the ball correctly or they have and Cloke is too dumb to absorb good advice.

 

[5_Flockhart]

I think that is mission impossible. either Collingwood hasn't got anyone on the coaching staff that can teach him how to hold and drop the ball correctly or they have and Cloke is too dumb to absorb good advice.

Why has it taken someone this long to say that? This just sums up my thoughts of the past 3-4 years

 

[TradeDraft]

Grundy - How good is he going. Got beaten in the ruck contest but absolutely dominated around the ground and playing as that extra mid. Was rapt to see him kick that goal bc thats what we use to see at u18 level where he was v good fwd. He plays as another mid almost. Ball use a lot better tonight

Was Beaten Early but started to get in Top later in the Game

Adams - Brilliant game and had his moments but on the whole he used it well last night. He has a great start to the year and tough as teak isn't he. Umps looked after him a bit more last night as well.

Did not try to over use the Ball and used it with in himself

 

[TradeDraft]

yep

I have found Grundy Struggles at Timing at his Jumps at Centre Bounces. That is his Probem Snoop Dog ?

 

[Pie eyed]

Why has it taken someone this long to say that? This just sums up my thoughts of the past 3-4 years

No-one said it because most would consider it common knowledge.
Cloke has struggled for years, most of his career in fact.

 

[Bard]

I have found Grundy Struggles at Timing at his Jumps at Centre Bounces. That is his Probem Snoop Dog ?

It's a weird phenomenon that seems to effect most ruckmen. In fact Paddy Ryder seems to be one of the few that can actually time his leaps appropriately. I'm assuming it's due to some kind of tactic or strategy to focus on body contact rather than tapping the ball at the highest point possible.

 

[Kappa]

I had similar thoughts after watching Gault at the ground on ANZAC Day. His presence required Fletcher to run with him most of the time. That is, Essendon sufficiently rated him that it was not their plan for Fletcher to leave him and double team Cloke. Gault certainly played his part in this by leading out to the flanks on the fifty giving Cloke plenty of space.

The questions for me are things like whether Witts or Karnezis Would draw the defender in the same way if they played that role? Gault seems to be steadily improving, but we better served by a shorter non ruck like Karnezis or a less mobile but stronger Witts who would ruck better?

Ultimately, the best outcome would be for us to have rucks like Hawks who are serviceable in both ruck and forward role. I think we are going to need more than Grundy in the ruck against the better sideS and later in the year when he tires. This means either Gault and White do more in the ruck role or more in the forward role.

Fletcher - 21 touches, 8 rebound 50's (the most on the ground),7 marks and a goal

Wow he really took Fletcher out of the game... apart from the fact Fletcher ran off him constantly and destroyed us... you have to wonder if people actually watched the game.

Gault has to be the luckiest player on this forum, apparently all he needs to do is be on the field and he gets praise for.. being there. Consistently has zero impact, his only goals are cheapies over the top, defensive pressure is mediocre. Will be delisted soon

 

[PieNSauce]

I will call a spade a spade and concede that Gault is not playing very confident or effective football right now. However we need to persist with him, he has to be our straightest kick for goal right now (not since Rusling, has someone donning the black and white been such a dead eye dick)

I'm not going to pretend I know how to mould players into class footballers but I have no concerns with him being in our starting 22 for the next few weeks. If he gets the odd free kick or easy mark inside 50 he adds an extra goal or two making up for Cloke's inevitable misses.

Clearly he needs to stop being so soft at the footy, but I'll be blindly optimistic and assume that problem will sort itself out.

I have to say that I'm a bit in your camp on this. I'd agree that at this stage Gault has not really shown that he belongs at this level but then he would not be the first player to look that way early. Not by a long shot. It's not hard to see that there is some real potential there but unless he starts to gain a bit more confidence it may never be realised. I'm not convinced that now is the time to send him back to the VFL. Interestingly, I thought it was a sign of how Pendles is developing as a leader that he appeared, as has already been said, to be trying on at least 1 or 2 occasions to get Corey involved. It's probably exactly what he needs to have his captain show some faith in him. Time will tell with Corey and for now he is at least providing good structure in our forward line.

 

[5_Flockhart]

No-one said it because most would consider it common knowledge.
Cloke has struggled for years, most of his career in fact.

Sure, what you're saying is true. I think what I was more focused on is the exact wording, I'm not sure I've seen someone sum it up quite as sharply

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

I think that is mission impossible. either Collingwood hasn't got anyone on the coaching staff that can teach him how to hold and drop the ball correctly or they have and Cloke is too dumb to absorb good advice.

You're being naive if you believe it's a technique thing. James Manson looked handicapped when he kicked but he was relatively accurate.

For Cloke it's 100% between his ears. He needs to understand that at this point in his career, NO ONE expects him to get any of his shots from anywhere, so he should just relax regardless of where he takes his shots from.

 

[jmac70]

I watched the replay of our game last night. Gault did a few nice things but overall had little impact on the game. Grundy showed a lot more as a forward in the last quarter. He attacks the contest, has a decent leap and would attract a quality defender. Bringing Witts in for Gault is a no brainer and would make us even better.

 

[ClaytonM]

Fletcher - 21 touches, 8 rebound 50's (the most on the ground),7 marks and a goal

Wow he really took Fletcher out of the game... apart from the fact Fletcher ran off him constantly and destroyed us... you have to wonder if people actually watched the game.

Gault has to be the luckiest player on this forum, apparently all he needs to do is be on the field and he gets praise for.. being there. Consistently has zero impact, his only goals are cheapies over the top, defensive pressure is mediocre. Will be delisted soon

I think you are over stating people's positions. Nobody thinks he is playing well but many think he is worth persevering with at this point in time. If only because he is good for our structures and his development. Only other option is Witts and he is likely to be just as ineffectual as a KPF.

If Reid was up and running I would suggest most would be calling for him to be dropped.

 

[jathanas]

You're being naive if you believe it's a technique thing. James Manson looked handicapped when he kicked but he was relatively accurate.

For Cloke it's 100% between his ears. He needs to understand that at this point in his career, NO ONE expects him to get any of his shots from anywhere, so he should just relax regardless of where he takes his shots from.

Very reasonable. Cloke's brain needs to start working with him, not against him. Only Cloke can make that happen.

I watched the replay of our game last night. Gault did a few nice things but overall had little impact on the game. Grundy showed a lot more as a forward in the last quarter. He attacks the contest, has a decent leap and would attract a quality defender. Bringing Witts in for Gault is a no brainer and would make us even better.

Gault will benefit from his run in the A team, and might prove to be a valuable asset in a year or 2, but it's time to bring in Witts.

 

[Snoop Dog]

Interesting you thought Gault did ok? Not sure how he went ok, I thought he was rather poor and the level looks to be beyond him imo.

I guess with nothing else coming through we have to persists but...

We went through him a massive amount of times in that first half and he was convincingly bet and at sea for all of it. His goal came about due to Pendles trying to get him involved instead of taking the shot himself only on a slight angle 35m out and giving to Gault un-marked 30 out dead in front.

He made a few tackles and took a few marks but the weight of ball that was directed his way he was actually quite poor and was soundly beaten there were some passages like when he didn't even attempt at marking the ball went straight pass him and out of bounds.

Overall was a great team effort and was good to put them to the sword.

I only said it bc I am not convinced that he isnt playing a role which takes him and more importantly his opponent away from the play a bit. Same with Jesse White. The way our fwd line is structuring is really good at the moment. They are creating more space in it and letting Elliott, Cloke, White and Pendles get some one out opportunities. I think White and Gault have been asked to drag their man away. If they havent then he is having zero influence. Personally am surprised Witts is still not in that senior group and it doesnt bode well for us having him at the end of hte year if Buckley doesnt think he can play both.

 

[Cousin of Daicos]

Very reasonable. Cloke's brain needs to start working with him, not against him. Only Cloke can make that happen.

I'm wondering what has been said. He more often than not has no issue kicking the difficult ones, or at least getting NEAR the mark. Obviously in his mind, he relaxes because he isn't expected to kick them from the boundary or 55 out. But he needs to know that he's not expected to kick them 5 metres out either, so he should be able to relax just as much.

 

[PepperFace]

Brodie Grundy – Didn’t have as big of an impact in the ruck as he has in the past few weeks, but his work around the ground was top class. I’d take his individual game over both or Carlton’s ruckmen (Warnock, Wood) and whilst we lost on hitouts 49-28, Grundy didn’t ruck much in the last quarter. Kicked a nice pickup goal from the square and improved his kicking and decision making on last week whilst keeping his pressure. Looking forward to seeing him develop, but it is important now not to burn him out (ala Josh Fraser) so I think we need Witts to come in and give him a hand in the ruck.

17 Disposals, 5 Marks, 22 Hitouts, 5 Clearances, 9 Tackles

Problem with Josh Fraser was that he wasnt a genuine ruckman. Yes he had height but was never physical to play that role. He was more a tall half forward.

Grundy is totally opposite to Josh in the fact that he is agressive, physical and can take an overhead mark (although it would be nice to see more marks from him but i think that will develop).

 

[McGuanes Seven]

Fletcher - 21 touches, 8 rebound 50's (the most on the ground),7 marks and a goal

Wow he really took Fletcher out of the game... apart from the fact Fletcher ran off him constantly and destroyed us... you have to wonder if people actually watched the game.

Gault has to be the luckiest player on this forum, apparently all he needs to do is be on the field and he gets praise for.. being there. Consistently has zero impact, his only goals are cheapies over the top, defensive pressure is mediocre. Will be delisted soon

My comment about Fletcher running consistently with Gault was in the context of when we were in possession and moving forward and, specifically, that his leads to the flanks prevented the double teaming of Cloke by Fletcher which would otherwise have occured.

I can't take too much issue actually with the the thrust of the rest of your comments (other than me not being at the ground )

A further question I could have added is whether him being not much more than a decoy is sufficient to justify a position. That is, unfortunately, what being 'valuable for the structure' really means. I would be happy to see him have a run in the VFL to build up his capabilities or get confidence if that would help or for his performance there to decide his future with the team. In the meantime, a replacement would similarly need to consistently draw a defender and, ideally, be someone who would prevent that defender being a rebounder - a good point yours. In the absence of Reid (probably the ideal replacement) we have Witts and Karnezis, both of them have aspects of their game which make them not ideal in the required role. The possibility of Grundy being mostly forward with Witts mostly ruck would probably be a better option. That does involve a number of other considerations though.

 

[eflreceiver]

I must watch a different game as far as White goes? He gets the second best defender and whilst he might drag that one away from Cloke he does nothing else. When under pressure, can't mark. When under pressure, goes to ground. When not under pressure get's a an easy kick and goals. In a game where we dominated where the opposition simply didn't turn up, his return is 11 disposals with 1 goal and that was handed to him on a plate. Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He needs to grow some balls or he will turn into Ben Kinnear MKII

 

[Snoop Dog]

I must watch a different game as far as White goes? He gets the second best defender and whilst he might drag that one away from Cloke he does nothing else. When under pressure, can't mark. When under pressure, goes to ground. When not under pressure get's a an easy kick and goals. In a game where we dominated where the opposition simply didn't turn up, his return is 11 disposals with 1 goal and that was handed to him on a plate. Built like Tarzan, plays like Jane. He needs to grow some balls or he will turn into Ben Kinnear MKII

Given the number of goals and goal kickers we are having I suspect they wont tinker.

 

[eflreceiver]

Given the number of goals and goal kickers we are having I suspect they wont tinker.

I don't think they will either, will be interesting how he goes against the better teams.

 

[TradeDraft]

Problem with Josh Fraser was that he wasnt a genuine ruckman. Yes he had height but was never physical to play that role. He was more a tall half forward.

Grundy is totally opposite to Josh in the fact that he is agressive, physical and can take an overhead mark (although it would be nice to see more marks from him but i think that will develop).

Agree - Grundy has a Ruckman Type Body where Fraser was more Skinnier like a young KPP

 

[Hardas]

I watched the replay of our game last night. Gault did a few nice things but overall had little impact on the game. Grundy showed a lot more as a forward in the last quarter. He attacks the contest, has a decent leap and would attract a quality defender. Bringing Witts in for Gault is a no brainer and would make us even better.

Yep, it's not as if Grundy has to spend as much time in the ruck as he's doing now - why not make the best of both Grundy and Witts' potential.