List Mgmt. Collingwood Re-Building Via The Draft

Actually we would have Pick 3 in the PSD.

I would not be the Big Shock IF we go up a Few Spots on the Ladder

Sorry mate, you’re right there, pick 3.
 
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Well the Roos are pretty flush for tall forwards, so much so they were happy to let Brown walk and they’ve picked up Jake Edwards in the MSD.

At the moment we’d be pick 2 in the PSD and with Bucks stepping down, I don’t really see us shooting up the ladder any time soon. Hell even North are about to be one game behind us.

The Roos only have Larkey, Comben and now Edwards... Campbell and Walker are fill ins, Tarrant near the end...

Letting Brown go was pragmatic one based on Browns age, injuries and 2x 2nd picks on offer

I doubt north overlook a player able to play both ends in Riccardi unless something better is available in the PSD at number 1
 
The Roos only have Larkey, Comben and now Edwards... Campbell and Walker are fill ins, Tarrant near the end...

Letting Brown go was pragmatic one based on Browns age, injuries and 2x 2nd picks on offer

I doubt north overlook a player able to play both ends in Riccardi unless something better is available in the PSD at number 1

North been Tanking since they De-Listed at least Qtr of there List.

North might like Riccardi a Young Tall that has Produced at VFL Level
 
The Roos only have Larkey, Comben and now Edwards... Campbell and Walker are fill ins, Tarrant near the end...

Letting Brown go was pragmatic one based on Browns age, injuries and 2x 2nd picks on offer

I doubt north overlook a player able to play both ends in Riccardi unless something better is available in the PSD at number 1

That’s a fair point but the PSD only need be a threat so we don’t get reamed at the trade table. As long as GWS knows they’d lose him for nothing. Happy to offer a future third or involve Cox… or if we’re set on not offering Sier any more opportunities, that’s another piece which could come into play as Timmy mentioned.
 
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well i'm sure they'll put a ton of development into trey....and if they can get him up to speed then i might nominate for the draft

To be serious, 99% of AFL listed players are a step above the ordinary, what we call spuds at AFL level are actually very good footballers. If you look at the premier you'd say they don't have spuds coz their 'depth' has been developed better.
 

Markfs

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To be serious, 99% of AFL listed players are a step above the ordinary, what we call spuds at AFL level are actually very good footballers. If you look at the premier you'd say they don't have spuds coz their 'depth' has been developed better.

so when we win a premiership trey will be a very good footballer. I cant wait...
 
Build as much as you like but the only way you'll find a real gun key forward is via an early pick.

Riewoldt - pick 1
Roughead - pick 2
Kennedy - pick 4
Franklin - pick 5
Lynch - pick 11
J Riewoldt - pick 13

Hawkins - FS Top 10 easily
Cloke - FS - Top 10 easily
Dixon - Zone academy
Cameron - GWS academy selection

I wouldn't have these as superstars, the only real forwards to not go early picks.

Walker
Gunston
Darling

It's simple get a top 5 pick take the best available key forward.
 
Build as much as you like but the only way you'll find a real gun key forward is via an early pick.

Riewoldt - pick 1
Roughead - pick 2
Kennedy - pick 4
Franklin - pick 5
Lynch - pick 11
J Riewoldt - pick 13

Hawkins - FS Top 10 easily
Cloke - FS - Top 10 easily
Dixon - Zone academy
Cameron - GWS academy selection

I wouldn't have these as superstars, the only real forwards to not go early picks.

Walker
Gunston
Darling

It's simple get a top 5 pick take the best available key forward.

Only way that Happens that we are the same or worse next year as this 1st Rounder has been Traded and Points for Nick Daicos
 
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Build as much as you like but the only way you'll find a real gun key forward is via an early pick.

Riewoldt - pick 1
Roughead - pick 2
Kennedy - pick 4
Franklin - pick 5
Lynch - pick 11
J Riewoldt - pick 13

Hawkins - FS Top 10 easily
Cloke - FS - Top 10 easily
Dixon - Zone academy
Cameron - GWS academy selection

I wouldn't have these as superstars, the only real forwards to not go early picks.

Walker
Gunston
Darling

It's simple get a top 5 pick take the best available key forward.

But Lynch Franklin Dixon Cameron and Kennedy are no longer at their original drafted clubs... showing there are other ways to recruit players of this magnitude. Reiwoldt at pick 13 basically means the team finishing about 5th on the ladder that year landed him

Of the key forwards in top eight sides in 2021, only one of them was a top ten pick and is still at their original club... thats Naughton.
 

Harry O

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Build as much as you like but the only way you'll find a real gun key forward is via an early pick.

Riewoldt - pick 1
Roughead - pick 2
Kennedy - pick 4
Franklin - pick 5
Lynch - pick 11
J Riewoldt - pick 13

Hawkins - FS Top 10 easily
Cloke - FS - Top 10 easily
Dixon - Zone academy
Cameron - GWS academy selection

I wouldn't have these as superstars, the only real forwards to not go early picks.

Walker
Gunston
Darling

It's simple get a top 5 pick take the best available key forward.
Oscar Allen in the 20s
Jack Riewoldt after we took Reid and Brown
Ben Brown late pick
Gunston in the twenties?
Tom McDonald later pick
There are options with later picks- no doubt a top 5 pick helps. As long as you don’t pick a Schache Boyd Patton or McCartin
 
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well thats a positive outlook. i hope thats the case.

Like I said, every single AFL listed player is a very good footballer, doesn't happen by accident, for all the non elites at the top level development is key to them being 'spuds' at the top level vs 'serviceable to good' players.

Think our 'spuds' now vs 2018. JT, the hyphen, Cal Brown, etc. Then compare to the likes of the premiers 'spuds' Higgins, Baker, McIntosh etc.

Except the premiers spuds aren't spuds coz they've been developed better FFS. Not to mention played to their strengths instead of played out of position because of list imbalance (read sh*tty list management) like Treloar last year playing as an inside mid, instead his natural position as a receiving mid ala 2018.

It's really not hard to work out, the better teams aren't better teams purely on list, they're better teams coz they're better teams (which is a whole combination ahead of just list incase you didn't know).
 

Jelly Bean

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Build as much as you like but the only way you'll find a real gun key forward is via an early pick.

Riewoldt - pick 1
Roughead - pick 2
Kennedy - pick 4
Franklin - pick 5
Lynch - pick 11
J Riewoldt - pick 13

Hawkins - FS Top 10 easily
Cloke - FS - Top 10 easily
Dixon - Zone academy
Cameron - GWS academy selection

I wouldn't have these as superstars, the only real forwards to not go early picks.

Walker
Gunston
Darling

It's simple get a top 5 pick take the best available key forward.

Walker was a NSW Academy selection as well, and almost certainly was going to go higher than his pick
 

Jelly Bean

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But Lynch Franklin Dixon Cameron and Kennedy are no longer at their original drafted clubs... showing there are other ways to recruit players of this magnitude. Reiwoldt at pick 13 basically means the team finishing about 5th on the ladder that year landed him

Of the key forwards in top eight sides in 2021, only one of them was a top ten pick and is still at their original club... thats Naughton.

Yep, but those you've named that moved clubs moved for a very high price at the trade table or through a very pricey FA. Cameron - three first round draft picks, Kennedy a trade requiring Chris Judd, Lynch and Franklin big FA contracts, etc. The problem with FA is that it is becoming apparent that FAs only really go to clubs that are contending or on the trajectory towards that, and that won't be us for 3-4 years probably. So we can rule out getting a gun forward through FA or through trading (as we don't have tradeable players that we can trade without weakening the list)
 
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Yep, but those you've named that moved clubs moved for a very high price at the trade table or through a very pricey FA. Cameron - three first round draft picks, Kennedy a trade requiring Chris Judd, Lynch and Franklin big FA contracts, etc. The problem with FA is that it is becoming apparent that FAs only really go to clubs that are contending or on the trajectory towards that, and that won't be us for 3-4 years probably. So we can rule out getting a gun forward through FA or through trading (as we don't have tradeable players that we can trade without weakening the list)

Collingwood can quickly become a destination target again. I have no doubt about that. Finishing bottom 4-5 is not the only way to land a gun key forward.... in fact it is fraught with risk with recent fails like Hogan Patton Boyd and McCartin good examples. Both Kings seem to have their issues too although I'm sure they'll come good. Good forwards can be picked up anywhere in the first and second rounds of the draft not just the top five... or through trades or free agency. I doubt Collingwood will be in a position to do trade anybody in the elite category at the end of this season but I have no doubt we will be better placed by the end of next year with a more stable board and coaching situation, and an improved cap position. In the meantime trading for a younger player who is gettable might be the way to go.. eg Riccardi
 
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I fell in love with this post when you said development.

Let's look at the current premier, no one with any fibre of brain would suggest they've had the best list throughout their premiership gluttony. In fact apart from this year and apart from our own list imbalance, there is not a lot of difference in quality - so development has set them apart. Yeah sure there are other factors but the key one being development - particularly game.

Now let's look at a talent laden list like WC, sure they've got a flag, but even in that game it wasn't assured and some may argue if we continued from that manic 1st qtr then they wouldn't have been in the hunt. It would've been disappointing from a list talent perspective.

Then you look at clubs like GC and GWS who've crashed their F1 cars in a V8 supercars race.

Then you look at us - throughout it's history, only once since the 4 peat has it looked like it had a list worthy of dynasty, even then couldn't pull it off. Sure there's nuanced arguments around the why that 07 (where it started to build) to 11 team couldn't continue its dominance, but really it's clutching at straws arguments, reality is that a team with the 2nd highest % across the history of the comp and a 20-2 record can't be ignored. Opportunity missed.

Now we have a blank canvas to work with, if we get the development part right, coupled with the resources we have at our disposal there's no reason why this club can't build a dynasty team.

Apologies to everyone, you all know how I bang on about development, history recent and not has proven development to be key to success.
The tigers have had the best list to play their brand of footy. No other list has had the accumulation of pace and thus has matched the combination of pressure and speed of transition that has seen them dominate the comp.
 

jonmacTrag

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The tigers have had the best list to play their brand of footy. No other list has had the accumulation of pace and thus has matched the combination of pressure and speed of transition that has seen them dominate the comp.
Hence why copying their style is sheer stupidity.
 
But Lynch Franklin Dixon Cameron and Kennedy are no longer at their original drafted clubs... showing there are other ways to recruit players of this magnitude. Reiwoldt at pick 13 basically means the team finishing about 5th on the ladder that year landed him

Of the key forwards in top eight sides in 2021, only one of them was a top ten pick and is still at their original club... thats Naughton.

Don't rate McKay?
 

Markfs

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Like I said, every single AFL listed player is a very good footballer, doesn't happen by accident, for all the non elites at the top level development is key to them being 'spuds' at the top level vs 'serviceable to good' players.

Think our 'spuds' now vs 2018. JT, the hyphen, Cal Brown, etc. Then compare to the likes of the premiers 'spuds' Higgins, Baker, McIntosh etc.

Except the premiers spuds aren't spuds coz they've been developed better FFS. Not to mention played to their strengths instead of played out of position because of list imbalance (read sh*tty list management) like Treloar last year playing as an inside mid, instead his natural position as a receiving mid ala 2018.

It's really not hard to work out, the better teams aren't better teams purely on list, they're better teams coz they're better teams (which is a whole combination ahead of just list incase you didn't know).

I must admit that I would like to see Cal Brown's kicking to be developed so that he could kick 10 to 15 metres more, and maybe JT to be developed so that he gets more involved in games. And I do think Trey has been played out of position. As a 193cm player with not much pace, I'd like to see him as a player who can come on during a final and king hit the oppositions key players. His inherent mongrel needs to be encouraged. I'm hoping the new coach can do all this and more.
 
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