List Mgmt. Collingwood Re-Building Via The Draft

[Snake_Baker]

The next coach & game plan game will dictate all of this.

Example: Neither Clarkson or Lyon strike me as rebuild happy types.

Lyon, in particular, would probably want to fortify the list with 1-2 ready to go talls.

 

[Anzacday]

Lyon, in particular, would probably want to fortify the list with 1-2 ready to go talls.

s**t no, not Zac Dawson again.

 

[jonmacTrag]

What too many fail to take into account is two absolute tragedies that derailed the club and the results are still holding us back.

Shazza and Freeman should have set us up for years but instead they turned into millstones around our neck and the after affects are still being felt.

We lost Swanny at least 2 years too soon due to a freak injury - and he was still at the top of his game.

Yes the list management of late has been ordinary but in the normal run of things without those disasters we should have at least one - if not two - more flags.

 

[whiskeytown]

If we want to rebuild through the draft it means looking at moving Cox, Sidebottom, Elliot* for what we can get.

Elliot is still under 30 but body wise is probably in his last 50 career games. Ditto Sidebottom and Cox. But clubs out there might show interest netting us potentially 3 x late 2nd to mid 3rd rd picks to pay for Daicos, Dib... and maybe bring in another kid or upgrade a further rookie

Would still leave a decent senior group in Adams, Moore, Grundy, Crisp, De Goey, Maynard... and Pendlebury, Howe and Roughead in the shorter term... to guide the kids through

You then have J Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, Poulter, Mccreery, McRae, Henry, McInnes, Murphy, Keane/Kelly, N Daicos forming a core under 25 group

But there is no expediency to the rebuild if we continue with so many 30+ year olds on our list

We need to move on some of the older players to free up cap, senior list spots and net us further draft picks this year and next

 

[piemad1]

Draft wise, our strategy should be to take late picks in the 21-24 range. We need about 2-3 players of that age and we could legitimately pull some standouts in from the state league. Riley Knight is a free player. Oakland Athletics style rebuild doesn't focus on getting good players, it focuses on getting cheap fills who have potential and are wasted at their clubs. Think Dan Butler, Aliir, Aliir, etc.

Exactly right. Brodie, Narkle, Knight. There are a lot of solid players about at the minute that would be very affordable and offer more than some of our older players.

 

[Scritchyscroony]

If we want to rebuild through the draft it means looking at moving Cox, Sidebottom, Elliot* for what we can get.

Elliot is still under 30 but body wise is probably in his last 50 career games. Ditto Sidebottom and Cox. But clubs out there might show interest netting us potentially 3 x late 2nd to mid 3rd rd picks to pay for Daicos, Dib... and maybe bring in another kid or upgrade a further rookie

Would still leave a decent senior group in Adams, Moore, Grundy, Crisp, De Goey, Maynard... and Pendlebury, Howe and Roughead in the shorter term... to guide the kids through

You then have J Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, Poulter, Mccreery, McRae, Henry, McInnes, Murphy, Keane/Kelly, N Daicos forming a core under 25 group

But there is no expediency to the rebuild if we continue with so many 30+ year olds on our list

We need to move on some of the older players to free up cap, senior list spots and net us further draft picks this year and next

I'd have a larger group of players I'd put in the up for trade category. Throw up Sier, WHE, and maybe Howe as well. Widen the net of potential interest and choose whatever maximises our return. Hopefully the club has learned from the past and plays a smarter game to improve outcomes and manage player fallout.

 

[lenny&carl]

As it stands, I don't think we're crap enough to get a couple years in the bottom 4, in order to get the quality picks. So we need to sell off some more quality (over 25yo) players. Or, we aim for a minor rebuild rather than a major one...dunno how though, because we aren't good enough for that to work either!

 

[jackcass]

I'd still like to persist with Kelly as KPF
I actually think Anton Tohill shows promise at FB in VFL
along with Keane and Wilson thats enough KPD's

I don’t see Wilson as a KPD, I don’t think that’s his game. More a 3rd tall utility type.

 

[jackcass]

sh*t no, not Zac Dawson again.

Cory Gault.

 

[jackcass]

What too many fail to take into account is two absolute tragedies that derailed the club and the results are still holding us back.

Shazza and Freeman should have set us up for years but instead they turned into millstones around our neck and the after affects are still being felt.

We lost Swanny at least 2 years too soon due to a freak injury - and he was still at the top of his game.

Yes the list management of late has been ordinary but in the normal run of things without those disasters we should have at least one - if not two - more flags.

Add Langer’s to that group.

 

[jackcass]

If we want to rebuild through the draft it means looking at moving Cox, Sidebottom, Elliot* for what we can get.

Elliot is still under 30 but body wise is probably in his last 50 career games. Ditto Sidebottom and Cox. But clubs out there might show interest netting us potentially 3 x late 2nd to mid 3rd rd picks to pay for Daicos, Dib... and maybe bring in another kid or upgrade a further rookie

Would still leave a decent senior group in Adams, Moore, Grundy, Crisp, De Goey, Maynard... and Pendlebury, Howe and Roughead in the shorter term... to guide the kids through

You then have J Daicos, Quaynor, Noble, Poulter, Mccreery, McRae, Henry, McInnes, Murphy, Keane/Kelly, N Daicos forming a core under 25 group

But there is no expediency to the rebuild if we continue with so many 30+ year olds on our list

We need to move on some of the older players to free up cap, senior list spots and net us further draft picks this year and next

Disagree. You need some quality senior experienced guys in the side to support the development of the kids.

 

[OniAu]

Such a fine balance to make sure we arent too inexperienced to the point we are getting thumped like the dees horror period.

Feel like we need to do it smart and fade out the 30 year olds over a couple of years. But we cant be too aged focus and just get rid of someone just because they are the other side of 30. If they are playing good footy , they need to remain and be pushed out by a kid.

Would love to see us make a list of all the KPF/KPD in the afl and target a fringe younger guy who cant crack the 22 but has shown a bit. Not in Josh Schahe ilk, but maybe more Riccardi, Coleman Jones. Get rid of a Greenwood on average money and bring in a young KP player. Have 2 of them to grow together and test each other.

 

[TomBolt2]

What too many fail to take into account is two absolute tragedies that derailed the club and the results are still holding us back.

Shazza and Freeman should have set us up for years but instead they turned into millstones around our neck and the after affects are still being felt.

We lost Swanny at least 2 years too soon due to a freak injury - and he was still at the top of his game.

Yes the list management of late has been ordinary but in the normal run of things without those disasters we should have at least one - if not two - more flags.

Agreed. And losing Beams and Langdon with 2 or 3 years left on contracts can be added, but even worse when the club had to shed other salaries to pay them out and get their slice of the cap behind us. In fairness to Hine, etc, those 4 losses weren't about bad talent identification

 

[Copeland]

Why hasnt it worked for Carlton with all their very low picks?

 

[jonmacTrag]

Why hasnt it worked for Carlton with all their very low picks?

SOS

 

[TradeDraft]

Such a fine balance to make sure we arent too inexperienced to the point we are getting thumped like the dees horror period.

Feel like we need to do it smart and fade out the 30 year olds over a couple of years. But we cant be too aged focus and just get rid of someone just because they are the other side of 30. If they are playing good footy , they need to remain and be pushed out by a kid.

Would love to see us make a list of all the KPF/KPD in the afl and target a fringe younger guy who cant crack the 22 but has shown a bit. Not in Josh Schahe ilk, but maybe more Riccardi, Coleman Jones. Get rid of a Greenwood on average money and bring in a young KP player. Have 2 of them to grow together and test each other.

Then look at the Dees know who are the best team in the comp at the Moment

 

[Copeland]

What too many fail to take into account is two absolute tragedies that derailed the club and the results are still holding us back.

Shazza and Freeman should have set us up for years but instead they turned into millstones around our neck and the after affects are still being felt.

We lost Swanny at least 2 years too soon due to a freak injury - and he was still at the top of his game.

Yes the list management of late has been ordinary but in the normal run of things without those disasters we should have at least one - if not two - more flags.

And imagine if Reid and Cloke kept their form and health like Hawkins and the other Taylor, you would think at least one more flag. Such is life!

 

[OniAu]

Then look at the Dees know who are the best team in the comp at the Moment

Exaclty. Start to pick their pockets. Like happens to a few teams at the top for a while.

 

[Maggie5]

Then look at the Dees know who are the best team in the comp at the Moment

Haven't won a Grand Final cup since 1964, has taken them long enough.

 

[jonmacTrag]

Haven't won a Grand Final cup since 1964, has taken them long enough.

And they haven't won this one yet.

My best mate would have both sets of fingers crossed in Hades I'm sure.

 

[Maggie5]

And they haven't won this one yet.

My best mate would have both sets of fingers crossed in Hades I'm sure.

My most disliked team in the AFL, I so would love to beat them on Monday. Can't stand their supporters.

 

[TradeDraft]

My most disliked team in the AFL, I so would love to beat them on Monday. Can't stand their supporters.

Well then I guess you be Glad the game is Played at the SCG as they will get Destroyed on Monday

 

[jonmacTrag]

My most disliked team in the AFL, I so would love to beat them on Monday. Can't stand their supporters.

When you can find them - certainly not now with all the snow we have had.

 

[TheVillageIdiot7]

What too many fail to take into account is two absolute tragedies that derailed the club and the results are still holding us back.

Shazza and Freeman should have set us up for years but instead they turned into millstones around our neck and the after affects are still being felt.

We lost Swanny at least 2 years too soon due to a freak injury - and he was still at the top of his game.

Yes the list management of late has been ordinary but in the normal run of things without those disasters we should have at least one - if not two - more flags.

Respectfully disagree.
These two in particular join the long list of "1st round picks that failed".
Shazza was a risk, given his injury prior to drafting and Freemen we'll never know as he was gone after 1 practice game.

Every team can point to "unlucky first round selections".
Every team can point to "unlucky injury ending careers" (e.g langdon, swanny).

Bar the obvious trading disasters (beams) and our first round pick giveaway raffle we seemed to run for a few years, I feel that that some of the more dubious left field selections are what has gone a long way to holding us back.

Our want to back "upside" over exposed form has been overlooked in my opinion.

Talking Sier mid 30's and McClarty mid 30's are two examples.

If either of these, plus maybe 1 or 2 others of this age profile are in the best 22, our future looks a like brighter than it does now.
I'm sure there are a heap of other examples from that draft range.
Also, its not about the pure diamonds that we missed in this period...they are just luck for the most part.
Its the 100+ gamer types that fill the void of the team (spots 14-22 on the team) that make a difference.

What i find interesting is our success 2005-20010 with late/ rookie selections versus 2015-present.
I cant help but think the strategy and traits we looked for were different back then to what they are now (namely, late picks are for need etc).

Anyway, lets hope we can find a balance between age profile and list needs rather than just going all out on young talent and lamenting when they don't fulfill the expectations placed on them by their junior career.....

 

[jonmacTrag]

Respectfully disagree.
These two in particular join the long list of "1st round picks that failed".
Shazza was a risk, given his injury prior to drafting and Freemen we'll never know as he was gone after 1 practice game.

Every team can point to "unlucky first round selections".
Every team can point to "unlucky injury ending careers" (e.g langdon, swanny).

Bar the obvious trading disasters (beams) and our first round pick giveaway raffle we seemed to run for a few years, I feel that that some of the more dubious left field selections are what has gone a long way to holding us back.

Our want to back "upside" over exposed form has been overlooked in my opinion.

Talking Sier mid 30's and McClarty mid 30's are two examples.

If either of these, plus maybe 1 or 2 others of this age profile are in the best 22, our future looks a like brighter than it does now.
I'm sure there are a heap of other examples from that draft range.
Also, its not about the pure diamonds that we missed in this period...they are just luck for the most part.
Its the 100+ gamer types that fill the void of the team (spots 14-22 on the team) that make a difference.

What i find interesting is our success 2005-20010 with late/ rookie selections versus 2015-present.
I cant help but think the strategy and traits we looked for were different back then to what they are now (namely, late picks are for need etc).

Anyway, lets hope we can find a balance between age profile and list needs rather than just going all out on young talent and lamenting when they don't fulfill the expectations placed on them by their junior career.....

Moving on.