He hasn't been run out of the game. He has resigned as club president. Will still be commentating and most likely take on multiple other roles too. Bit of an overreaction this whole "footy has lost a great man to the lefties" crap.
Yes its a strange one isn't it.What does "woke" mean? Have read many references recently with this verb used as an adjective but I don't understand other that it appears to be pejorative. Is it supposed to be?
It was corporate interests that gave him a shove not leftists. The outdated PR spin he used burnt him. I still find it weird that he is so experienced in the media but botched it. Under Eddie the Pies have obviously followed the rest of the competition to become a pretty progressive and inclusive place. His own gaffes have cause them to look racist and he's been pushed out. It was pretty sad to watch a grown man obviously emotional but he still tried to explain how progressive they were instead of just saying he f’ed up in the past but he's learning to adapt. Several inside Collingwood were working on his removal too, not due to racism, just because he's domineering and doesn't like letting others have the reigns.
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interesting combination here
I'm not sure when it manifested from Lumumba saying inappropriate jokes were made (from what I gather not directly to him but around the club in general - two months after he came to Collingwood (early 2005)) into the chimp nickname or any other derogatory names. I think I read 2006. So you can say that Buckley wasn't around during the time that Lumumba was being called chimp, that's fair enough and obviously I'd agree. But Buckley did say that during his time at Collingwood when "they were winning flags" (Buckley was there from 2010-2012) Lumumba openly encouraged and used the nickname.Buckley is pretty much the one of the last people you'd trust on anything involving nuance.
He wasn't at Collingwood at the start of Lumumba's career, when it likely began. He wasn't at Collingwood in 2013/14 when Lumumba clearly underwent the drastic personal changes to who he saw himself as, and as part of it, what "non-malicious racism" he was and wasn't willing to tolerate. And Simon Buckley's, shall we say, far less than spotless personal history means I'd be unlikely to piss on him if he were on fire, much less listen to inane social media rantings.
What do you think? Is HL making it up for attention or could it be that Buckley and him didn't get along and it could be something personal or a myriad of other things. The report that Collingwood had done would have interviewed a lot of people who would have put together a pretty thorough picture of the club. If it consistently came out that Lamumba was a troubled attention seeker it would have made the review look a lot different than what it did. Perhaps that's what Collingwood were hoping would come out, that the club was a progressive place and a few whingers were making stuff up. It ended up an own goal if they did.What do we think of Simon Buckley's comments?
Eddie McGuire failed to identify his use-by date and, when forced out, portrayed himself as the victim | Barrie CassidyEven as the Collingwood president quit he failed to seriously address the club’s descent into racism and its woefully inadequate responsewww.theguardian.com
"Big sporting clubs have to be more aware, more attuned, to evolving social attitudes. They have to more honestly and openly face up to their responsibilities when crises emerge. No longer can damage control be the default position. Spin is out – or it should be.
McGuire was a great president for 10 years. He does have a powerful legacy and future generations will thank him for that. But like so many agents of change, he did his best work early, and in the end he failed to identify his use-by date."
I'm not sure when it manifested from Lumumba saying inappropriate jokes were made (from what I gather not directly to him but around the club in general - two months after he came to Collingwood (early 2005)) into the chimp nickname or any other derogatory names. I think I read 2006. So you can say that Buckley wasn't around during the time that Lumumba was being called chimp, that's fair enough and obviously I'd agree. But Buckley did say that during his time at Collingwood when "they were winning flags" (Buckley was there from 2010-2012) Lumumba openly encouraged and used the nickname.
And fair enough if Lumumba has since then changed his views on what happened - but if Buckley's recollection is true and Lumumba did not take offence to it don't you think it is unreasonable to condemn a group of people for it after the fact? Especially in this case, 10-15 years on? By all means go nuts if at the time you didn't appreciate it and still don't appreciate it. Name and shame. I just don't understand, especially if Lumumba was encouraging it, why these people have to be punished because you were (allegedly) fine with it then but not fine with it now.
I will tell you I have experienced racism before. In the past people I knew have made racist comments towards me and I wilfully encouraged/accepted it - like Lumumba allegedly did. I think the only difference is that if years later I think back and my view changes to being offended by it, I wouldn't expect those who were involved to be lambasted for it. It happened in a moment in time that I was accepting of but moving forward I would hold a view that those behaviours are not repeated. And lets just be real for a minute. These guys were all teammates. Lumumba was a regular in their 22 and integral to their premiership. He would've had good relationships with pretty much all players, or at least good enough to the point they wouldn't call him names that he wasn't accepting of. I know it was 10 years ago but it wasn't 1920.
I think the societal issues Collingwood face are not Collingwood's alone. I think these things (putting in place systems/process to deal with incidents) are very untapped to not just other AFL clubs or the league itself but even leagues worldwide. Over in America the NBA & NFL have had these issues for quite some time. Cricket just went through it with the Indians. England's national soccer team just had two incidents and rightly called them out. Just because systems are failing people (not just blacks but whites that experience racism too) I don't think makes the people themselves racist. I don't think the people that racially vilified me were racists. Even the Do Better report mentioned that basically the systems for reporting incidents at Collingwood were sub-par - I'd add to that and say probably even non existent. Eddie's put his foot in his mouth way too many times, I agree. But if people really want to move forward there's no need for the kind of vitriol the media and others have heaped on the CFC - who by letting their club be investigated are taking the first important step in building a stronger and more culturally aware workspace. McGuire's resignation does absolutely nothing to fix these issues.
From the connections I have to the CFC and the things I have been told about Heritier during his tenure at Collingwood, I do put some weight behind Buckley's comments. In fact I am not surprised by them - I was expecting an ex teammate to come out and disagree with Lumumba's version of events to be honest. From the type of person I have been told that he is (complete narcissist apparently) I think I will question him until it is proven (re: the use of chimp without Lumumba's consent) so I'm interested to see what comes of his dealings in court and if any other past players have the courage to have their say. I actually used to know Buckley during that time too so everything to do with this situation is pretty close to home.
Yep - well said. With this sort of stuff I always go back to a saying that has stuck with me since I was a kidI used to work with a guy from Mauritius back in the 90s and a big bunch of workmates started calling him n***** as a nickname. He wasn't assertive enough to stand up to them and would laugh along with them like it didn't worry him. I was a junior manager and had to deal with it. We had to tell this wolf pack that it wasn't okay and when we tried to tell them to stop they'd all claim he was cool with it so it wasn't an issue. They'd ask him if he minded and he'd say no but then he wanted the company to stop them. It was really hard for the pack to see that they might be being offensive to him because he wouldn't let people know how much it was getting to him. He'd tell us he'd go home and cry but then couldn't seem to stand up and tell people to stop. In the end we got him to write letter and we got these guys to read it. It stopped straight away once they realised what it was like to be in his shoes. I can't say it's the same for HL but it's not always straight forward. Similar to HL, people used to find this guy annoying and used his personality as reason to justify their own behaviour. Most of these guys didn't think they were racist, it was different time back then.
Nar. Everyone is just keeping their heads down.I'm amazed at how little scrutiny Nathan Buckley has received in all this.
Surely someone who was the Captain, Assistant Coach and then Head Coach during a lot of this needs to shoulder a lot of the responsibility and publicly apologise for his role in creating and allowing the racism to continue within the club.
As much as Eddie has had multiple public ignorant or racist moments, Buckley was the person in the playing group and club every day and would have had much more first hand knowledge and experiences with the behaviours that report was talking about.
It's that the media hasn't been calling for him to take any responsibility that gets me.Nar. Everyone is just keeping their heads down.
Only the suicidal would step forward at the moment.
Nar. Everyone is just keeping their heads down.
Only the suicidal would step forward at the moment.
This review was sparked by the public criticisms and complaints made by ex-Collingwood player, Heritier Lumumba, about his experiences and treatment when playing for the Club. It has been our clear position that those claims deserve their own serious investigation and that must be one that he is involved in. His claims, however, throw a spotlight over the internal processes and structures that this review is tasked to look at.What do you think? Is HL making it up for attention or could it be that Buckley and him didn't get along and it could be something personal or a myriad of other things. The report that Collingwood had done would have interviewed a lot of people who would have put together a pretty thorough picture of the club. If it consistently came out that Lamumba was a troubled attention seeker it would have made the review look a lot different than what it did. Perhaps that's what Collingwood were hoping would come out, that the club was a progressive place and a few whingers were making stuff up. It ended up an own goal if they did.
It's that the media hasn't been calling for him to take any responsibility that gets me.
Kinda impressive how he has been able to escape this with no consequences at all.
Your understanding is incorrect. Has been used since the 19th century. Now used as a pejorative to denigrate anyone who has a view on contemporary issues. Has ben weaponised by some to lazily dismiss others. Much like 'politically correct', 'nanny state', and the new favourite 'cancel culture', catch phrases to shut down alternative views.Woke means virtue signalling leftists from my understanding