Opinion Collingwood Report on discrimination

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gringo2011

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So true. Eddie was a man of power and personality, he put plenty of noses out of joint in the AFL industry and the media. Caroline Wilson has a done a victory lap in her column today.
Have always admired McGuire. Have thought he had the best interests of football and Collingwood at heart. However as my mother in law used to say, it's a long road and things can come back to bite you as you travel it.

I wonder if the players letter the day after had a really telling effect. Seemed they had broken with Eddie after the 'Proud day' comments the day before. To me that had more agency than a group of indigeneous leaders demanding resignation. If found that letter uncomfortable and unnecessary but that is probably me and my outdated views.

Other fans were jealous of him back in the day, he probably went on few years too long in the end but he was a big promoter of football in the professional era and oversaw the transition of a club into a professional sports environment. He was ahead of his time when he started and leaves a dinosaur with old fashioned ideas and a tarnished legacy. He left his club in a better place overall but a bit battered and bruised in the short term.
 

gringo2011

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I've got no idea of their relationship but I do know that HL had put a lot of people offside during his time at Collingwood and I've heard that from indigenous Australians who were close to the club in that time (still are for what it's worth) and it had nothing to do with him speaking up about issues it had to do with his alleged inflated sense of self worth. I think being a professional footballer might've got to his head. This is why it is hard to take his allegations seriously. I don't for one second believe his teammates were disregarding his requests to stop racially vilifying him as he claims. But I could be wrong of course, so I'm interested to see how the follow on from this goes.

If the report came out and said Lumumba was a troubled attention seeker do you think Lumumba would've added more fuel to that fire and called those who wrote the report racist also? There is undeniable pressure put on the CFC in the climate we live in. Those that are criticised for being racist are guilty until proven innocent. I think this is why the Do Better report didn't mention anyone being racist specifically and didn't specifically say the club was racist either. From what I read they basically said the systems CFC had in place to deal with issues had broken down/was sub-par (I'll add it wasn't even there at all).

I dont think the DB report was ever intended to call out specific individuals for their alleged actions, I think the ongoing court case will do that.


That could all be true for HL but I haven't heard anything like that from HL or anyone at the club, publicly or privately. It's hard for people to change so the fact HL so openly calls it out now makes me wonder that he probably had that strong of a character back then too. If I'm wilfully encouraging or accepting of behaviour towards me I have to have some accountability in it regardless if that is race, sexual orientation, religion, whatever the case may be.

My point is he might have seemed like he was okay with the nickname publicly but not privately. He might be a dickhead and a narcissist but that doesn't mean he wasn't upset by the name he was given.
 

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pebblesofsand

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QUOTE="ScrappyDo, post: 68725629, member: 187956"]
HL's complaints are what kicked off the movement to have the report done in the first place.
The existence of his legal action meant that the auditor could not include his complaints lest it prejudiced the case.

I dunno why you keep trying to separate the two. HL is inextricably part of this business, and without him this audit/report would simply never have happened.
[/QUOTE]
No that's not true. HL's complaints were not considered in any way by the report and therefore any reference to them is simply incorrect and irrelevant to the findings of the report.

I have no idea why Saints supporters would prefer to promote unsubstantiated rumours and belittle victims rather than be disgusted that almost 30 years after Nicky Winmar was racially abused at CFC, an independent investigation still finds that systemic racism still exists within that club.
 

StCicatriz

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I have no idea why Saints supporters would prefer to promote unsubstantiated rumours and belittle victims rather than be disgusted that almost 30 years after Nicky Winmar was racially abused at CFC, an independent investigation still finds that systemic racism still exists within that club.
not to comment on posters in here or say its relevant to what i am about to write, but the same stuff happened to Winmar when he made a stand. there will always be some behavioural or character issues raised in an attempt to try and deflect away from the issue at hand. it's an extremely old playbook.

whoever posted the comment from the ex-collingwood president (i.e. Eddie's predecessor) on Winmar is quite timely. those comments were excusable by some 30 years ago, after all, it wasn't violent and he wasn't using direct derogatory terms. some would even agree with them back then and still see themselves as progressive because those views in the 90s were still more humane than recent events in the 60s when indigenous people required a passport to enter the city or the issues of pay/work conditions. But i 100% doubt Eddie shared those same views. He would have been against them entirely. fast forward to now and some don't have any issues with what Eddie has said, after all it wasn't direct like his pre-decessor, asking people to be more white. some would say he merely made a bad joke or was engaging in some misplaced banter. they may say his "apologies" were awkward or didn't need to happen at all. but here's the thing society has moved past that, they've moved past eddie's banter/jokes/views and his attempt to spin it all away without taking any responsibility for it.

it's just how it is. societal views doesn't stay stagnant. because ed was progressive for the CFC in the late 90s doesn't mean he's still progressive enough in 2021.

the same will happen to us as we age just like Joffaboy pointed out. does it make us bad people? i don't think so as long as you are self-aware enough to realise that your views are outdated, inflammatory or may cause offense. or in this example: i had a 105 year old in law in her last days get admitted to hospital, she kindly asked the nurse not to let the n word doctor treat her. now we all know this is racist and terrible to say, but its coming out of the mouth of a 105 year old with a mind stuck in another time. she atleast had the decency not to say it to the dr in question. i mean the same lady didn't like some of her great grand daughters husbands because they were not clean shaven and were seen as unbecoming. but this lady also had an incredible heart, she would hand knit the countless amount of direct and indirect relatives socks. ensure they had gifts for birthdays/christmas etc. she had a huge amount of empathy. she was a good person IMO it's just that her views were not relevant anymore and would cause offense to anyone not at a similar age

eddie should be commended for all the work he did for collingwood, especially when you consider the views of his predecessor, but that doesn't mean he is completely removed for his actions. he should have left 5 years ago at the very least and then an issue like this would be resolved directly, quickly and to the point. instead it just adds more fuel to the fire and he goes out on at a very low point, where he has contributed major damage to the club and major sponsors are turning their backs on him.
 
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Joffaboy

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not to comment on posters in here or say its relevant to what i am about to write, but the same stuff happened to Winmar when he made a stand. there will always be some behavioural or character issues raised in an attempt to try and deflect away from the issue at hand. it's an extremely old playbook.

whoever posted the comment from the ex-collingwood president (i.e. Eddie's predecessor) on Winmar is quite timely. those comments were excusable by some 30 years ago, after all, it wasn't violent and he wasn't using direct derogatory terms. some would even agree with them back then and still see themselves as progressive because those views in the 90s were still more humane than recent events in the 60s when indigenous people required a passport to enter the city or the issues of pay/work conditions. But i 100% doubt Eddie shared those same views. He would have been against them entirely. fast forward to now and some don't have any issues with what Eddie has said, after all it wasn't direct like his pre-decessor, asking people to be more white. some would say he merely made a bad joke or was engaging in some misplaced banter. they may say his "apologies" were awkward or didn't need to happen at all. but here's the thing society has moved past that, they've moved past eddie's banter/jokes/views and his attempt to spin it all away without taking any responsibility for it.

it's just how it is. societal views doesn't stay stagnant. because ed was progressive for the CFC in the late 90s doesn't mean he's still progressive enough in 2021.

the same will happen to us as we age just like Joffaboy pointed out. does it make us bad people? i don't think so as long as you are self-aware enough to realise that your views are outdated, inflammatory or may cause offense. or in this example: i had a 105 year old in law in her last days get admitted to hospital, she kindly asked the nurse not to let the n word doctor treat her. now we all know this is racist and terrible to say, but its coming out of the mouth of a 105 year old with a mind stuck in another time. she atleast had the decency not to say it to the dr in question. i mean the same lady didn't like some of her great grand daughters husbands because they were not clean shaven and were seen as unbecoming. but this lady also had an incredible heart, she would hand knit the countless amount of direct and indirect relatives socks. ensure they had gifts for birthdays/christmas etc. she had a huge amount of empathy. she was a good person IMO it's just that her views were not relevant anymore and would cause offense to anyone not at a similar age

eddie should be commended for all the work he did for collingwood, especially when you consider the views of his predecessor, but that doesn't mean he is completely removed for his actions. he should have left 5 years ago at the very least and then an issue like this would be resolved directly, quickly and to the point. instead it just adds more fuel to the fire and he goes out on at a very low point, where he has contributed major damage to the club and major sponsors are turning their backs on him.
Well put. Sami Shah the Pakistani comedian and radio personality was sent to Geralton when he first moved to Australia.
His views are that everybody is racist, it is just how you handle and cope with it. He reckons his friends from WA were very racist, but makes the point they would drop everything and fly to Melbourne for him if he needed them.
We are all prejudiced in our views to a lesser or greater extent. I try to be progressive, my daughter thinks I'm a neanderthal. We just keep learning and hopefully in a few centuries we will be like Star Trek.
 

SaintsSeptember

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Well put. Sami Shah the Pakistani comedian and radio personality was sent to Geralton when he first moved to Australia.
His views are that everybody is racist, it is just how you handle and cope with it. He reckons his friends from WA were very racist, but makes the point they would drop everything and fly to Melbourne for him if he needed them.
We are all prejudiced in our views to a lesser or greater extent. I try to be progressive, my daughter thinks I'm a neanderthal. We just keep learning and hopefully in a few centuries we will be like Star Trek.
What you are describing is the way that Australians in general are sh*t stirrers who put the boots into their mates.
Getting older i'm starting to lose a fair few follicles. Do my mates consider that i might be sensitive about my hair loss.....nope it makes me a prime target.
Its almost you know you're amongst mates when they put the boots in over that sort of thing.
Whispering behind your back....totally different.
Its probably something that is dying now due to political correctness , but it wasn't all bad, and the old saying, "actions speak louder than words " apply.

I grew up in an area with a large Greek and Maltese community. I had dark hair , and in summer tanned up a lot, during my school years I was asked a fair few times if i was a "wog". ( if they knew my name they knew i wasn't ). It was always the Greek guys asking.

The old "John O Grady " books capture the concept pretty well. Yeah its casual racism, but it was part of the assimilation process.
 

George

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What you are describing is the way that Australians in general are sh*t stirrers who put the boots into their mates.
Getting older i'm starting to lose a fair few follicles. Do my mates consider that i might be sensitive about my hair loss.....nope it makes me a prime target.
Its almost you know you're amongst mates when they put the boots in over that sort of thing.
Whispering behind your back....totally different.
Its probably something that is dying now due to political correctness , but it wasn't all bad, and the old saying, "actions speak louder than words " apply.

I grew up in an area with a large Greek and Maltese community. I had dark hair , and in summer tanned up a lot, during my school years I was asked a fair few times if i was a "wog". ( if they knew my name they knew i wasn't ). It was always the Greek guys asking.

The old "John O Grady " books capture the concept pretty well. Yeah its casual racism, but it was part of the assimilation process.
Just shave it off mate it's empowering :thumbsu:;)
 

Keg still on legs

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not to comment on posters in here or say its relevant to what i am about to write, but the same stuff happened to Winmar when he made a stand. there will always be some behavioural or character issues raised in an attempt to try and deflect away from the issue at hand. it's an extremely old playbook.

whoever posted the comment from the ex-collingwood president (i.e. Eddie's predecessor) on Winmar is quite timely. those comments were excusable by some 30 years ago, after all, it wasn't violent and he wasn't using direct derogatory terms. some would even agree with them back then and still see themselves as progressive because those views in the 90s were still more humane than recent events in the 60s when indigenous people required a passport to enter the city or the issues of pay/work conditions. But i 100% doubt Eddie shared those same views. He would have been against them entirely. fast forward to now and some don't have any issues with what Eddie has said, after all it wasn't direct like his pre-decessor, asking people to be more white. some would say he merely made a bad joke or was engaging in some misplaced banter. they may say his "apologies" were awkward or didn't need to happen at all. but here's the thing society has moved past that, they've moved past eddie's banter/jokes/views and his attempt to spin it all away without taking any responsibility for it.

it's just how it is. societal views doesn't stay stagnant. because ed was progressive for the CFC in the late 90s doesn't mean he's still progressive enough in 2021.

the same will happen to us as we age just like Joffaboy pointed out. does it make us bad people? i don't think so as long as you are self-aware enough to realise that your views are outdated, inflammatory or may cause offense. or in this example: i had a 105 year old in law in her last days get admitted to hospital, she kindly asked the nurse not to let the n word doctor treat her. now we all know this is racist and terrible to say, but its coming out of the mouth of a 105 year old with a mind stuck in another time. she atleast had the decency not to say it to the dr in question. i mean the same lady didn't like some of her great grand daughters husbands because they were not clean shaven and were seen as unbecoming. but this lady also had an incredible heart, she would hand knit the countless amount of direct and indirect relatives socks. ensure they had gifts for birthdays/christmas etc. she had a huge amount of empathy. she was a good person IMO it's just that her views were not relevant anymore and would cause offense to anyone not at a similar age

eddie should be commended for all the work he did for collingwood, especially when you consider the views of his predecessor, but that doesn't mean he is completely removed for his actions. he should have left 5 years ago at the very least and then an issue like this would be resolved directly, quickly and to the point. instead it just adds more fuel to the fire and he goes out on at a very low point, where he has contributed major damage to the club and major sponsors are turning their backs on him.
Good post.

I was actually commenting at work today how out of touch I am with some things. I'm aware, but also as you get older it's just too hard to become truly in touch or keep up with change.

My views have changed dramatically over the years. I am unrecognizable to the 18 year old me. That doesn't mean I'm not ignorant to some more progressive things in society. It also doesn't mean I'm against them either, I just don't relate. I guess at least I'm aware of it!

Compared to the young people at work I am a dinosaur. They know it, I know it.

I do, however, always try to consider how my actions or words impact others. I may not be able to see their perspective or step into their lives, but I can at least not make them feel uncomfortable or judged just because I may not understand.

I think that's the best we can do sometimes
 

George

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Used to.
I'm old enough to move past that now.

I'm at the who can be stuffed shaving it every day phase.
Haha I started to lose mine at 20 so as soon as I saw it coming I just got rid of it all. Haven't been to the hairdresser in 10 years now. I'm with you, I could never shave it every day but once a week or so is good enough for me.

I've never seen it as a embarrassing thing though so because I laughed at myself for it I never really copped flack for it, or if I did it quickly stopped. I didn't care too much about losing my hair and thankfully my heads not shaped like a pea so it looks decent lol
 

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SaintsSeptember

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Haha I started to lose mine at 20 so as soon as I saw it coming I just got rid of it all. Haven't been to the hairdresser in 10 years now. I'm with you, I could never shave it every day but once a week or so is good enough for me.

I've never seen it as a embarrassing thing though so because I laughed at myself for it I never really copped flack for it, or if I did it quickly stopped. I didn't care too much about losing my hair and thankfully my heads not shaped like a pea so it looks decent lol
Was great when i first shaved it. My skin there was all smooth and largely untouched by the sun.
It looked like one of Jessica Alba's butt cheeks in "Into the blue " Its a bit more weathered now.
 

By a Point

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it would be good to see that other dinosaur Jeff Kennett go. This man wanted to get rid of Alistair Clarkson. He has an opinion on everything, none of which are now of interest to anyone.
Clarkson is still current but Hawthorn is badly run with poor recruiting. Kennett oversees this and should go
 

jwikked

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it would be good to see that other dinosaur Jeff Kennett go. This man wanted to get rid of Alistair Clarkson. He has an opinion on everything, none of which are now of interest to anyone.
Clarkson is still current but Hawthorn is badly run with poor recruiting. Kennett oversees this and should go
You think he should be sacked because he dares to have an opinion?
why do you care how the Hawks are run? Who else should be sacked from their positions, all people you disagree with on a political level I presume?
 

gringo2011

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Good post.

I was actually commenting at work today how out of touch I am with some things. I'm aware, but also as you get older it's just too hard to become truly in touch or keep up with change.

My views have changed dramatically over the years. I am unrecognizable to the 18 year old me. That doesn't mean I'm not ignorant to some more progressive things in society. It also doesn't mean I'm against them either, I just don't relate. I guess at least I'm aware of it!

Compared to the young people at work I am a dinosaur. They know it, I know it.

I do, however, always try to consider how my actions or words impact others. I may not be able to see their perspective or step into their lives, but I can at least not make them feel uncomfortable or judged just because I may not understand.

I think that's the best we can do sometimes

Yep, my daughter is always pulling me up on things I say.... and I think I'm pretty progressive. Gender pronouns and general slips of the tongue using old phrasing that apparently isn't the way it's done now get me told off. There was some one on TV who was transgender and I referred to them as a "trannie" without even thinking about it. It was apparently the same as calling someone the N word pretty much in that community. It's the kind of sh*t my grandparents did that I used to cringe at. Now I'm getting it.
 

sammm

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what does that have to do with withy Stkilda? last line in the article.
 

Keg still on legs

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Yep, my daughter is always pulling me up on things I say.... and I think I'm pretty progressive. Gender pronouns and general slips of the tongue using old phrasing that apparently isn't the way it's done now get me told off. There was some one on TV who was transgender and I referred to them as a "trannie" without even thinking about it. It was apparently the same as calling someone the N word pretty much in that community. It's the kind of sh*t my grandparents did that I used to cringe at. Now I'm getting it.
I'm supportive of the theory that people should be free to live however they want as long as it's legal and doesn't effect others.

I stil feel a bit behind the times sometimes though. I struggle to keep up with the new gender identities that get added to the LGBTIQ etc. I respect each one of them and 100% support their rights to be happy, but as a white heterosexual male I can't really relate to their struggles or what it's like to walk in their shoes.

I'm mindful about inadvertently saying something offensive, so I find any convo where I try to educate myself becomes quite clunky. And then I come out looking like a dinosaur 😖
 

ScrappyDo

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what does that have to do with withy Stkilda? last line in the article.
It's just part of the gag.

I had an extra big laugh at this, because l sh1t you not, 1 day earlier a lady friend of mine (47) inner suburban leftie, who knows nothing of footy and does not follow MSM, took to facebook calling for Eddie (the racist) McGuire's head after reading an opinion piece in (you guessed it) The Guardian.

The similarity was very eerie.
 

George

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Get a Pitbull head shaver... I got one for Xmas & it makes keeping the bonce smooth easy as.
I've actually been looking for a new shaver...I've used the same Remington for 11 years lol. Probably blunt by now but still cuts pretty well. Might look into that. I tried using a blade during lockdown and had some horrific moments, thankfully I was stuck at home.
 
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