Opinion Collingwood Report on discrimination

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StFly

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You think he should be sacked because he dares to have an opinion?
why do you care how the Hawks are run? Who else should be sacked from their positions, all people you disagree with on a political level I presume?
Man was premier when my head was kinda perma attached to my left shoulder because torn muscle; and man did close the local hospital for our region.

You have NFI how much pain I was in for that 40km drive on sh*t roads to the next one.

Man could be strapped in a chair in a burning building and I would pour more fuel on it.

I know, selfish, nothing to do with his other credentials, he's done wonders for Hawthorn outside of them transitioning to a former tip which is lols, team with earthen colours basing on literal sh*t and all, maybe entertaining moving to the isle where people joke everyone is related is just more to kind?

I've actually been looking for a new shaver...I've used the same Remington for 11 years lol. Probably blunt by now but still cuts pretty well. Might look into that. I tried using a blade during lockdown and had some horrific moments, thankfully I was stuck at home.
I've used a hand razer exactly once.

In that one time, my RA twitched and instead of just dropping the blade per usual, it clenched where, you know, pressure downwards. Suffice to say, after the bleeding stopped, the rest went in the bin. DGAF how much it cost, I was lucky my left arm still worked to gauze it after wrenching the hand away.
 

CursingFijian

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Oh no, I have to face the consequences of my actions, woe is me.
Cancel Culture my arse.
It was corporate interest that gave him a shove not leftists. The outdated PR spin he used burnt him. I still find it weird that he is so experienced in the media but botched it. Under Eddie the Pies have obviously followed the rest of the competition to become a pretty progressive and inclusive place. His own gaffes have cause them to look racist and he's been pushed out. It was pretty sad to watch a grown man obviously emotional but he still tried to explain how progressive they were instead of just saying he f’ed up in the past but he's learning to adapt. Several inside Collingwood were working on his removal too, not due to racism, just because he's domineering and doesn't like letting others have the reigns.
Eddie Maguire left because the disapproving voices in the corridors of power at Olympic Park had risen above a whisper. Not because of any leftist mob.

Eddie failed to seize on a massive opportunity to place the Pies head and shoulders above every Australian sporting club, let alone every AFL club, with their independent review on systemic racism. He completely missed with his tone at the press conference, where he was defensive and combative, when he needed to acknowledge, embrace and commit to growth through change. If you used Eddie's demeanour to guess the title of the investigative report you might of thought it was 'KEEP CALM, NOTHING TO SEE HERE' instead of 'DO BETTER'. Brodie Grundy had a much better understanding of what the approach needed to be.

I can't imagine the power brokers would be happy for all that money, time and effort to be spent to get you to a point where, with a little bit of thoughtfulness, you can launch your club to a really strong position as a brave, progressive leader for positive social change. Instead Eddie completely misses his mark and the entire Collingwood Football Club shakes to the core with embarrassment and a tinge of shame. In the end it was just another bad day at the office for Eddie but I think it was clear to all that the writing was already on the wall. It was one misstep too far. And even then, Eddies first response is to swing his way out of it, refusing to acknowledge that it was HE who misspoke, instead suggesting that he has become a 'lightning rod' for unwarranted vitriol.

I do not, even for a moment, actually believe that Eddie harbors any malicious intent to suppress people of a different ethnic background, or colour or culture. But, not being racist isn't good enough for the leaders in our land. We, and I mean all Australians when I say 'we', need them to be more than that. Just like Gringo's business needed someone to step up for his Mauritius colleague.

Confronting blatant racism is easy, just like confronting a loud bully is easy, and I hazard a guess that everyone here would respond appropriately if they witnessed it. But challenging the mildest forms of racism is NOT easy guys. Especially when it is coming from people who:
  • you consider to be a friend
  • are genuinely popular in the social groups that you move in
  • occupy a leadership position
When people don't understand where your discomfort is coming from then pushing back just makes you look like a whinging self centered misfit. And this flies against what every person with physical or cultural traits that differentiate them is trying their hardest to do...assimilate. I can't tell you how many times I've shrunk inside because some yobbo has bellowed 'Geez that sh*t stinks, what the fu** are you eating?'. Even when I know it is meant to be humourous, I still shrink inside. It's easier just to leave the leftovers at home and get a meat pie off the smoko truck. Or don't heat your food up in the microwave and eat apart from everyone else in the lunchroom.

But there is no reason why Australians can't maintain their larrikin irreverence and still give everyone a fair cop at the same time. Next time someone has got something different in the mircowave try 'Geez that sh*t stinks, can I have some? I'll swap you for some vegemite sandwiches.'. And I will probably say 'yeah mate go for it, help yourself.'. But that's because I have already fallen in love with vegemite. Only one thing better than vegemite sandwiches, and that's vegemite toast.
 

gringo2011

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Eddie Maguire left because the disapproving voices in the corridors of power at Olympic Park had risen above a whisper. Not because of any leftist mob.

Eddie failed to seize on a massive opportunity to place the Pies head and shoulders above every Australian sporting club, let alone every AFL club, with their independent review on systemic racism. He completely missed with his tone at the press conference, where he was defensive and combative, when he needed to acknowledge, embrace and commit to growth through change. If you used Eddie's demeanour to guess the title of the investigative report you might of thought it was 'KEEP CALM, NOTHING TO SEE HERE' instead of 'DO BETTER'. Brodie Grundy had a much better understanding of what the approach needed to be.

I can't imagine the power brokers would be happy for all that money, time and effort to be spent to get you to a point where, with a little bit of thoughtfulness, you can launch your club to a really strong position as a brave, progressive leader for positive social change. Instead Eddie completely misses his mark and the entire Collingwood Football Club shakes to the core with embarrassment and a tinge of shame. In the end it was just another bad day at the office for Eddie but I think it was clear to all that the writing was already on the wall. It was one misstep too far. And even then, Eddies first response is to swing his way out of it, refusing to acknowledge that it was HE who misspoke, instead suggesting that he has become a 'lightning rod' for unwarranted vitriol.

I do not, even for a moment, actually believe that Eddie harbors any malicious intent to suppress people of a different ethnic background, or colour or culture. But, not being racist isn't good enough for the leaders in our land. We, and I mean all Australians when I say 'we', need them to be more than that. Just like Gringo's business needed someone to step up for his Mauritius colleague.

Confronting blatant racism is easy, just like confronting a loud bully is easy, and I hazard a guess that everyone here would respond appropriately if they witnessed it. But challenging the mildest forms of racism is NOT easy guys. Especially when it is coming from people who:
  • you consider to be a friend
  • are genuinely popular in the social groups that you move in
  • occupy a leadership position
When people don't understand where your discomfort is coming from then pushing back just makes you look like a whinging self centered misfit. And this flies against what every person with physical or cultural traits that differentiate them is trying their hardest to do...assimilate. I can't tell you how many times I've shrunk inside because some yobbo has bellowed 'Geez that sh*t stinks, what the fu** are you eating?'. Even when I know it is meant to be humourous, I still shrink inside. It's easier just to leave the leftovers at home and get a meat pie off the smoko truck. Or don't heat your food up in the microwave and eat apart from everyone else in the lunchroom.

But there is no reason why Australians can't maintain their larrikin irreverence and still give everyone a fair cop at the same time. Next time someone has got something different in the mircowave try 'Geez that sh*t stinks, can I have some? I'll swap you for some vegemite sandwiches.'. And I will probably say 'yeah mate go for it, help yourself.'. But that's because I have already fallen in love with vegemite. Only one thing better than vegemite sandwiches, and that's vegemite toast.

Vegemite is satan's excrement. I'd swap out a VS for something more exotic any day.
 

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SaintsSeptember

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Eddie Maguire left because the disapproving voices in the corridors of power at Olympic Park had risen above a whisper. Not because of any leftist mob.

Eddie failed to seize on a massive opportunity to place the Pies head and shoulders above every Australian sporting club, let alone every AFL club, with their independent review on systemic racism. He completely missed with his tone at the press conference, where he was defensive and combative, when he needed to acknowledge, embrace and commit to growth through change. If you used Eddie's demeanour to guess the title of the investigative report you might of thought it was 'KEEP CALM, NOTHING TO SEE HERE' instead of 'DO BETTER'. Brodie Grundy had a much better understanding of what the approach needed to be.

I can't imagine the power brokers would be happy for all that money, time and effort to be spent to get you to a point where, with a little bit of thoughtfulness, you can launch your club to a really strong position as a brave, progressive leader for positive social change. Instead Eddie completely misses his mark and the entire Collingwood Football Club shakes to the core with embarrassment and a tinge of shame. In the end it was just another bad day at the office for Eddie but I think it was clear to all that the writing was already on the wall. It was one misstep too far. And even then, Eddies first response is to swing his way out of it, refusing to acknowledge that it was HE who misspoke, instead suggesting that he has become a 'lightning rod' for unwarranted vitriol.

I do not, even for a moment, actually believe that Eddie harbors any malicious intent to suppress people of a different ethnic background, or colour or culture. But, not being racist isn't good enough for the leaders in our land. We, and I mean all Australians when I say 'we', need them to be more than that. Just like Gringo's business needed someone to step up for his Mauritius colleague.

Confronting blatant racism is easy, just like confronting a loud bully is easy, and I hazard a guess that everyone here would respond appropriately if they witnessed it. But challenging the mildest forms of racism is NOT easy guys. Especially when it is coming from people who:
  • you consider to be a friend
  • are genuinely popular in the social groups that you move in
  • occupy a leadership position
When people don't understand where your discomfort is coming from then pushing back just makes you look like a whinging self centered misfit. And this flies against what every person with physical or cultural traits that differentiate them is trying their hardest to do...assimilate. I can't tell you how many times I've shrunk inside because some yobbo has bellowed 'Geez that sh*t stinks, what the fu** are you eating?'. Even when I know it is meant to be humourous, I still shrink inside. It's easier just to leave the leftovers at home and get a meat pie off the smoko truck. Or don't heat your food up in the microwave and eat apart from everyone else in the lunchroom.

But there is no reason why Australians can't maintain their larrikin irreverence and still give everyone a fair cop at the same time. Next time someone has got something different in the mircowave try 'Geez that sh*t stinks, can I have some? I'll swap you for some vegemite sandwiches.'. And I will probably say 'yeah mate go for it, help yourself.'. But that's because I have already fallen in love with vegemite. Only one thing better than vegemite sandwiches, and that's vegemite toast.
Contrary to Gringo.
I'll raise you...Buttered Salada with Vegemite and sliced tasty cheese.
 

George

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Verdun

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Totally forgot about this


Also had no idea the Obama story was public knowledge either



Paints a picture of the character we are dealing with.
Are you referring to Collingwood as the thread is titled - Collingwood report on discrimination?
 

George

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Are you referring to Collingwood as the thread is titled - Collingwood report on discrimination?
Is that the same report that wouldn't have taken place without HL's involvement?

He is intrinsically linked to this matter and has been a point of discussion in this thread the entire way through.

There's the discussion about CFC the club and their failures, and then there's the discussion on HL's experiences. Some believe him word for word, others question him - this helps paint a picture of his character. I think it is important when trying to determine if his allegations are to be taken seriously.
 

Verdun

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Is that the same report that wouldn't have taken place without HL's involvement?

He is intrinsically linked to this matter and has been a point of discussion in this thread the entire way through.

There's the discussion about CFC the club and their failures, and then there's the discussion on HL's experiences. Some believe him word for word, others question him - this helps paint a picture of his character. I think it is important when trying to determine if his allegations are to be taken seriously.
The report does not mention him and specifically says another investigation should take place. It finds systemic racism a concept some find hard to acknowledge.

Those who want to 'paint a picture of his character' - go for it, says more about them than him.
 

Stan_Darsh72

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Totally forgot about this


Also had no idea the Obama story was public knowledge either


Paints a picture of the character we are dealing with.
He is a space cadet to put it lightly, He either needs more weed or less weed im not sure.

(Aslo he robbed Lenny of an AA spot in 2010)
 

George

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The report does not mention him and specifically says another investigation should take place. It finds systemic racism a concept some find hard to acknowledge.

Those who want to 'paint a picture of his character' - go for it, says more about them than him.
Because the report does not mention him are you refusing to accept it stemmed from his allegations? Or do you think it is just coincidence?

No question there were/are issues at Collingwood. There are two discussions that are being had here, if you don't want to involve yourself in one of them you don't have to. I reckon we are all in agreeance that CFC has systemic issues they need to address - I think that is fairly obvious given their history.

What I took issue with is the claim that HL wasn't accepting/encouraging of the nickname and the allegations he made that he got into physical/verbal altercations because of it. At least the other day on Twitter HL admitted he encouraged the use of the name. So we can put that to bed.

I'm not stupid enough to believe that no player on CFC's list stood up for him during that time if in fact it got to a point of physical/verbal abuse. I would've said something if I was at the club at that time. Dayne Beams came out the other day and said he also would speak up. If it got physical the most obvious next step from the CFC from a footballing perspective is to distance themselves from him (not play him). You wouldn't think HL would continue to play with players that were punching on with him at training. Well he missed four games from 2007-2012. Doesn't really help his allegations of violence within the club. Not to mention no player or staff member has come out and backed up that story - if they have I have missed it. So I'll definitely question the seriousness of what he is alleging took place.

Some here are happy to question the validity of someone having cancer so I reckon that (with examples) we can assess someones character in this instance too.
 

Verdun

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Realise this thread will be closed down soon as all do not agree, that's fine.

My point is the report is on systemic racism at Collingwood - I am not here to bag McGuire or Heritier Lumumba and I do not believe that is constructive.
 

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George

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He is a space cadet to put it lightly, He either needs more weed or less weed im not sure.

(Aslo he robbed Lenny of an AA spot in 2010)
I don't know HL personally but some of the stuff he has said and done in the past is bizarre. Has nothing to do with his skin colour, if Lenny Hayes wanted to meet Obama, or if he gave narcissistic speeches at a best & fairest night, or threatened to sue St.Kilda for not playing him then I'd think it was bizarre too. So when he says he was punching on with his teammates despite still being picked to play every week, and that seemingly nobody at the club stood up for him when he was experiencing racial vilification that he now admits he encouraged - I don't believe him.

He said this in his final year at CFC - "The thing I hold greatest to my heart, are my values which are also congruent with the values of the Collingwood football club... The number one value that this club has is community."

Now he claims something completely different. His story does not add up.
 

Winmar2Lockett

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I've actually been looking for a new shaver...I've used the same Remington for 11 years lol. Probably blunt by now but still cuts pretty well. Might look into that. I tried using a blade during lockdown and had some horrific moments, thankfully I was stuck at home.
The pitbull is a ripper


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StFly

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I don't know HL personally but some of the stuff he has said and done in the past is bizarre. Has nothing to do with his skin colour, if Lenny Hayes wanted to meet Obama, or if he gave narcissistic speeches at a best & fairest night, or threatened to sue St.Kilda for not playing him then I'd think it was bizarre too. So when he says he was punching on with his teammates despite still being picked to play every week, and that seemingly nobody at the club stood up for him when he was experiencing racial vilification that he now admits he encouraged - I don't believe him.

He said this in his final year at CFC - "The thing I hold greatest to my heart, are my values which are also congruent with the values of the Collingwood football club... The number one value that this club has is community."

Now he claims something completely different. His story does not add up.
I don't see this as a Setanta thing, more a history thing which as years pass looks less and less clean, then with the time passed events change meaning and how they were actually structured, like when did it actually become normal? Did I "actively" encourage it? and motivation based instances all change to reflect "new" motivations and thoughts. Which is why then statements seem odd and contradictory.

That is to say however, that the Pies immediately going to media and botching it initially is what was largely the expected response by those interviewed in said report. How they would attempt to mitigate and spin the narrative. So whilst it states that HL was not a party of this report in earnest, his time at the club was still viewed and commented on, so by association, was he a part of said report, just not intrinsically.

Much like say Lovett, anyone who knew the man or met him, knew he had a problem with booze and knew that on a bad day, it turned violent. Didn't need to know much else as otherwise was a professional, kind, just a bloke with a particular vice readily available in a high stress environment. We know how that went down, he's also of colour and made such comment upon his ejection from the event, I still hold that the man could not hold his drink and lacked the self control to limit and grow in agency, thus where there is smoke he shares some guilt in that night as do others. Not because he is of colour, but because much like me thinking Sheedy knew his stuff from meeting him a few times at sports events locally, but was a bit of a loony aka eccentric; Andrew needed to get off the piss, sad state of affairs that he ended up in court a few times because of it and his propensity to hit people.

Long way of saying say Essendon didn't have a racial issue like the Pies had, they had a wellbeing issue that then came to a crux, kinda like us in the 80's only they had money to you know, grow into it as a lifestyle where we didn't, so you still had to work and you had to have the character to withstand it...
 

gringo2011

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I met a cop who was about to retire at a party last weekend, he was getting asked about war stories and he mentioned the story of how Didak was in a car with the guy who killed a Good Samaritan shooting over the West Gate and I'm not sure if he was suggesting something funny with the investigation but he thought it was not pushed as much as the event warranted. Footy players are a protected species in Melbourne. That period at the Pies was a mess with drink driving, drugs and the Rat Pack always out and up to no good.
 

sammm

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It's just part of the gag.

I had an extra big laugh at this, because l sh1t you not, 1 day earlier a lady friend of mine (47) inner suburban leftie, who knows nothing of footy and does not follow MSM, took to facebook calling for Eddie (the racist) McGuire's head after reading an opinion piece in (you guessed it) The Guardian.

The similarity was very eerie.

some people are just mindless and whatever is in print they think its the truth.
 

StFly

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I met a cop who was about to retire at a party last weekend, he was getting asked about war stories and he mentioned the story of how Didak was in a car with the guy who killed a Good Samaritan shooting over the West Gate and I'm not sure if he was suggesting something funny with the investigation but he thought it was not pushed as much as the event warranted. Footy players are a protected species in Melbourne. That period at the Pies was a mess with drink driving, drugs and the Rat Pack always out and up to no good.
You don't end up in that situation through wise decisions.

I still recall my mother driving my sisters station wagon coming back home after getting a takeaway dinner, got mounted by a car coming the opposite way (she was overtaking a parked and him coming around a corner) the long story short ended up the driver who mounted the SW was on drugs, speeding, no skid marks to denote reaction reflex; but he knew responding officers.

Then about a month later my mum went to broady on summons of reckless endangerment and it all came tumbling out about how the male was off his tits and the officers were soon shuffled away from our region quietly. Since we actually knew the regional head at the time...

When people want to spin a story, there's always someone willing to turn blind eyes where required. Even when you have the grill of a car about 5mm from an opposing car windscreen and tracks only in one direction of someone doing literally anything except planting the foot and witnesses to the contrary...
 
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