Toast Collingwood - the fastest rebuild ever

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Madblue said:
Sure, would have preferred to make finals no denying that
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So then you can appreciate that, as painful as it is to get knocked out again, it’s better to have made finals and get amongst the top handful than not to at all. Not a dig at the Blues, just complimenting the Pies with this comment.
 
PieLebo87 said:
You’d kill just to be making finals right now. All year Carlton supporters were saying they’d be content with making finals, even if they went out first week. Don’t pretend to put on a brave face.
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After following the bombers from the mid-80s (and being part of a family that has since the late 40s), "making the finals" in a one-off has been a frustrating component of the last 18 years. Half arse rebuilds, followed by "big fish" recruiting, then sacking the coach cause the average list is performing average and this frustration is making the powerbrokers turn on each other. Carlton has been much the same. Collingwood was like this in the 80s and 90s, right up until Eddie appointed Malthouse. Richmond was like this for 10 years longer than Collingwood.

So, I'm sure Carlton supporters are in the same boat as Essendon supporters. We don't need to come from the clouds to surprise everyone and make the finals. What I need to see is that Essendon develops a team that will be competitive year in and year out, and not be a self-devouring rabble.

The state of Collingwood's list and current draft capital makes me think that Collingwood is one or two years away from a root and branch rebuild. The only clubs that have been able to defy gravity are Geelong and Sydney. There have been different lifestyle reasons and stable admin reasons to support that, but you're ahistorical if you think that will last forever.
 
fishardansin said:
After following the bombers from the mid-80s (and being part of a family that has since the late 40s), "making the finals" in a one-off has been a frustrating component of the last 18 years. Half arse rebuilds, followed by "big fish" recruiting, then sacking the coach cause the average list is performing average and this frustration is making the powerbrokers turn on each other. Carlton has been much the same. Collingwood was like this in the 80s and 90s, right up until Eddie appointed Malthouse. Richmond was like this for 10 years longer than Collingwood.

So, I'm sure Carlton supporters are in the same boat as Essendon supporters. We don't need to come from the clouds to surprise everyone and make the finals. What I need to see is that Essendon develops a team that will be competitive year in and year out, and not be a self-devouring rabble.

The state of Collingwood's list and current draft capital makes me think that Collingwood is one or two years away from a root and branch rebuild. The only clubs that have been able to defy gravity are Geelong and Sydney. There have been different lifestyle reasons and stable admin reasons to support that, but you're ahistorical if you think that will last forever.
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I sort of agree with you but we have the best list manager in the business, i think he is the most important cog on whether we have to go backwards before forwards. Next year will be interesting and will tell us more
 
fishardansin said:
After following the bombers from the mid-80s (and being part of a family that has since the late 40s), "making the finals" in a one-off has been a frustrating component of the last 18 years. Half arse rebuilds, followed by "big fish" recruiting, then sacking the coach cause the average list is performing average and this frustration is making the powerbrokers turn on each other. Carlton has been much the same. Collingwood was like this in the 80s and 90s, right up until Eddie appointed Malthouse. Richmond was like this for 10 years longer than Collingwood.
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A winning culture supersedes all that, and Essendon had that as far as I could remember under Sheedy. He was there for the first 20 years of my lifetime. He won premierships with multiple different groups without the proper ‘bottoming out’ rebuild that has become the craze in the last 20 years through the Dees and Blues.
fishardansin said:
So, I'm sure Carlton supporters are in the same boat as Essendon supporters. We don't need to come from the clouds to surprise everyone and make the finals. What I need to see is that Essendon develops a team that will be competitive year in and year out, and not be a self-devouring rabble.
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Again, that isn’t on the back of top draft picks and a ‘thorough rebuild’, but by instilling a winning culture within the club again. Essendon’s group, IMO, are a top 8 side, yet they’ve sacked a coach within 24 months. Was it the right or wrong decision? That’s not for me to say, but the only thing missing for Essendon in recent years is that C U Next Tuesday. They need to subconsciously stop worrying about the drugs saga and become an ‘unsocialable’ and hated footy club again within its hierarchy and on-field. Rebuilds don’t make that happen - just a winning culture will.
fishardansin said:
The state of Collingwood's list and current draft capital makes me think that Collingwood is one or two years away from a root and branch rebuild. The only clubs that have been able to defy gravity are Geelong and Sydney. There have been different lifestyle reasons and stable admin reasons to support that, but you're ahistorical if you think that will last forever.
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The Sydneys and Geelongs aren’t defying gravity though. They’re doing it the proper way - address the weaknesses and rejuvenate. You don’t need to cull/gut a list like Melbourne and Carlton did. Melbourne is the first and probably only side in 25 years who’ve done a full blown rebuild and yielded a premiership, but I’d attribute that on the back of Paul Roos coming into the club and instilling a winner’s culture/mentality and Goodwin has benefited from that.

If proper rebuilds were the way to go, Carlton would’ve won a premiership with the Kreuzers, Murphys and Gibbs, then going again for another premiership now with this batch of players.

EDIT: my point above is that Collingwood doesn’t need to go through a rebuild and historically don’t bottom out. Address the weaknesses in the list through a really competent list manager, and get back to contending again within that 48 month period.

Every club in the competition has a group of 4-6 quality players you can build a premiership challenging list around - just gotta get those role players through the door and instill a winning mentality in them around a really good game plan.
 

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BringFevBack2021 said:
Yeah, to me a rebuild involves some dramatic list turnover. Without some list turnover what have they rebuilt? Their reputation?

They are going along beautifully obviously. Just not enough list turnover. For the word “rebuild” for me.
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And a Carlton supporter who has witnessed a 20+ year rebuild should know a rebuild when he/she/they sees one. Respect your opinion
 
Kipz said:
And a Carlton supporter who has witnessed a 20+ year rebuild should know a rebuild when he/she/they sees one. Respect your opinion
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Hahahahaha and as a Pies supporter who has witnessed deplorable human after deplorable human put on your jumper you should recognise a s**t bloke, so when you look in the mirror it won’t come as a surprise
 
BringFevBack2021 said:
Hahahahaha and as a Pies supporter who has witnessed deplorable human after deplorable human put on your jumper you should recognise a s**t bloke, so when you look in the mirror it won’t come as a surprise
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What a salty and gutless snipe, lol.. the most deplorable human out of both our clubs though is Dick Pratt, who ran your rabble for how many years :$, now go and have a cry w*nk over the last game of last season when you thought you were going to beat Collingwood and make up the numbers in the finals you salty little person :p Lzz
 
Kipz said:
What a salty and gutless snipe, lol.. the most deplorable human out of both our clubs though is Dick Pratt, who ran your rabble for how many years :$, now go and have a cry w*nk over the last game of last season when you thought you were going to beat Collingwood and make up the numbers in the finals you salty little person :p Lzz
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Reckon you’re the salty one here, just a bit of banter. Sorry if I hurt your feelings.
 
Reasonably good list was at the club when McRea got there. But full credit to him in one pre season basically said how you use to play under Buckley is out the window. Forget it immediately. We are turning the game plan on its head and you are either in or out.
Just brilliant by McRea.
 
There was never a re build. They had the pieces in place already so don't buy into the fact they had ONE down year where they finished 17th and rebounded so quickly. They played finals in the 4 years preceding that including a GF and PF.

Something like 13 players in round 1, 2022 had PF experience so it's not like they were bottoming out.

Kudo's to MacCrae for turning them around so quickly but it was always going to happen quickly for the Pies
 
Can I ask why are collingwood fans offended this isn’t being recognized as a rebuild?? You guys had superstars all over your list when McRae showed up. Buckley was just terribly out of touch and passed his use by date
 
geelong_crazy26 said:
Can I ask why are collingwood fans offended this isn’t being recognized as a rebuild?? You guys had superstars all over your list when McRae showed up. Buckley was just terribly out of touch and passed his use by date
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Pretty sure we had an absolutely disastrous list when McRae joined and we wouldn’t play finals for close to 10 years. That’s what we were told at least
 
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