List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion 2022--> PART 2

[sr36]

Adelaide could have other factors:
- Cap issues therefore unwilling to delist a contracted player
- 2023 draft prospects may be rated higher
- He could be a "go home" player so maybe they think they will get him in 2 years anyway
- Thilthorpe already on their list. Can Keeler and he play in the same team? Also Himmelberg and Fogarty

To me it purely and simply means that they think that the last bloke they have access to and will add is more likely to make it. Depending on their list situation, that might mean very little as they may be in a position where they only want to add 2 players and have a couple they rate really highly locked in. Or it might mean they just don't rate his chances of making it. Under either scenario - they're clearly not bullish - otherwise they would have created an extra vacancy.

 

[Couch Coach]

Potentially, but is a 30 year old maimed Seedsman worth keeping over a top end talent?

In my view you take best available and then trade them if they don’t fit your mould. I wouldn’t say Adelaide have a surplus of talls.

Keeping Seedsman who is contracted is better than breaching the salary cap if it is that tight. (Probably not though).

Moot point as Seedsman has be delisted with the promise of redrafting in the rookie draft, same with McPherson.
This means that Adelaide has 3 spots available in the draft with the final two spots being used to upgrade Butts and Strachan.
Adelaide has Picks 46, 56 and 59.
These picks will likley cam in due to Ashcroft, Fletcher and Davey Jnr. matched bids to say 41, 50 and 53 by usinfg the Bigfooty Phantom Draft assumptions:
Pick 1 Will Ashcroft - Brisbane use Picks 34,35,36,38,55 and take on a 150 point deficit for 2023
Pick 17 Alwyn Davey - Essendon use Pick 23 to match
Pick 18 Jaspa Fletcher - Brisbane have no picks with points, so take on a bigger deficit with the Ashcroft one
Pick 29 Max Michalanny
Assuming the Phantom is correct and Michalanny gets bid on at Pick 29 Adelaide need 653 points minus 20% discount = 522 points.
This wipes out Pick 42 and pushes back Pick 50.

So effectively Adelaide are saying they wouldn't use Pick 50 on Keeler OR they don't think that he will last that far in the draft?

 

[RobJD]

I wouldn't read too much into one club's decision in terms of other club's decisions. THey'll all have different risk profiles. Some clubs will view a lack of exposed work ethic as a massive risk, whilst other clubs will view talent as a massive opportunity and lack of it as the big risk. I'd prefer us to take someone the way he's described rather than a "safe" Flynn Appleby option.

Absolutely agree, if his potential is rated so high then he's definitely worth a throw at the stumps with our last pick, low risk/high reward potential.

 

[manicpie]

Absolutely agree, if his potential is rated so high then he's definitely worth a throw at the stumps with our last pick, low risk/high reward potential.

I know one thing for sure and that is it's going to be hard to pass up a 197cm super athletic forward who has great hands and ground ball ability. Franklin had the same knock on him as a junior, he was supposedly scared. To me, I think he has by far the highest ceiling as a power forward and closely followed by Lemmey who had a frustrating year

 

[partypie]

Potentially, but is a 30 year old maimed Seedsman worth keeping over a top end talent?

In my view you take best available and then trade them if they don’t fit your mould. I wouldn’t say Adelaide have a surplus of talls.

First point - yes you'd absolutely give bloke who was an AA squad selection in the last season he played every chance to get over his concussion issues.

Second point- yes there might not be a surplus, but if Worrell and McAsey come on finally then they're pretty well stocked for now and most of them are young, you can also throw Doedee in as their intercept marker who plays a bit taller than his 187cm might indicate.



No star names in there of course but potentially a number of serviceable ones and that's all you need for a team in Adelaide's situation currently.

 

[KinderSmock]

First point - yes you'd absolutely give bloke who was an AA squad selection in the last season he played every chance to get over his concussion issues.

Second point- yes there might not be a surplus, but if Worrell and McAsey come on finally then they're pretty well stocked for now and most of them are young, you can also throw Doedee in as their intercept marker who plays a bit taller than his 187cm might indicate.

View attachment 1551636

No star names in there of course but potentially a number of serviceable ones and that's all you need for a team in Adelaide's situation currently.

Adelaide are actually much better than what most think.

I would be expecting them to finish in the 12th-9th region of the ladder. Not quite finals good, not bottom 4 bad. When they are on, they are on. When they are off, they are off.

 

[Bussie]

First point - yes you'd absolutely give bloke who was an AA squad selection in the last season he played every chance to get over his concussion issues.

Second point- yes there might not be a surplus, but if Worrell and McAsey come on finally then they're pretty well stocked for now and most of them are young, you can also throw Doedee in as their intercept marker who plays a bit taller than his 187cm might indicate.

View attachment 1551636

No star names in there of course but potentially a number of serviceable ones and that's all you need for a team in Adelaide's situation currently.

Fogarty only just turned 23. Feels like he's been around forever.

 

[jmac70]

Fogarty only just turned 23. Feels like he's been around forever.

Like a thick fog

 

[Jen2310]

Fogarty only just turned 23. Feels like he's been around forever.

Thats just crazy. Hows he only 3 years older than thilthorpe lol

 

[Albert Parker]

Just finishing watching the Vic Metro vs SA U18 Championships game.

Some chance that Crows simply don't think that Keeler falls beyond pick 40.

He's a good size, quite clean hands and happily kicks with both feet. I'd happily see us take him with one of our picks in the 20's.
Lots of upside and genuine underlying talent.

 

[Scodog10]

First point - yes you'd absolutely give bloke who was an AA squad selection in the last season he played every chance to get over his concussion issues.

Second point- yes there might not be a surplus, but if Worrell and McAsey come on finally then they're pretty well stocked for now and most of them are young, you can also throw Doedee in as their intercept marker who plays a bit taller than his 187cm might indicate.

View attachment 1551636

No star names in there of course but potentially a number of serviceable ones and that's all you need for a team in Adelaide's situation currently.

Great analysis, but take Golant out. He’s Adelaide’s great white midfield hope so belongs in a conversation on talls as much as Pendles and Crisp do for us.

 

[manicpie]

Just finishing watching the Vic Metro vs SA U18 Championships game.

Some chance that Crows simply don't think that Keeler falls beyond pick 40.

He's a good size, quite clean hands and happily kicks with both feet. I'd happily see us take him with one of our picks in the 20's.
Lots of upside and genuine underlying talent.

100% agree

 

[partypie]

Great analysis, but take Golant out. He’s Adelaide’s great white midfield hope so belongs in a conversation on talls as much as Pendles and Crisp do for us.

Was just going off how they'd been playing him so far which is mainly as a medium forward, but yes he is a midfielder really.

 

[partypie]

Just finishing watching the Vic Metro vs SA U18 Championships game.

Some chance that Crows simply don't think that Keeler falls beyond pick 40.

He's a good size, quite clean hands and happily kicks with both feet. I'd happily see us take him with one of our picks in the 20's.
Lots of upside and genuine underlying talent.

Surely they'd still put in the nomination though if they rated him - we're 2+ weeks away from the draft and players rise and fall on draft boards with some rated in the teens or 20's slipping outside the top 40 on a regular basis (eg. Draper for us last year).

All not putting in a nomination for him does is basically gift him to one of the four clubs ahead of Adelaide after pick 40 is done if he does happen to slide that far and they haven't made a pick beforehand. Yes it's likely that their pick 46 may rise up to around the pick 40 mark anyway after earlier bid matching, but surely you'd want to go into the draft with every possible card up your sleeve.

 

[KJpie]

Surely they'd still put in the nomination though if they rated him - we're 2+ weeks away from the draft and players rise and fall on draft boards with some rated in the teens or 20's slipping outside the top 40 on a regular basis (eg. Draper for us last year).

All not putting in a nomination for him does is basically gift him to one of the four clubs ahead of Adelaide after pick 40 is done if he does happen to slide that far and they haven't made a pick beforehand. Yes it's likely that their pick 46 may rise up to around the pick 40 mark anyway after earlier bid matching, but surely you'd want to go into the draft with every possible card up your sleeve.

Thought there were just the 3 list spots available for the Crows, 2 commited to rookie upgrades & the last for F/S nominee Michalanney who could go prior to 30?
If so, no list spots remain. Late picks they have start @ pick 46 as you've stated & will be used for points (Michalanney).

 

[Albert Parker]

Thought there were just the 3 list spots available for the Crows, 2 commited to rookie upgrades & the last for F/S nominee Michalanney who could go prior to 30?
If so, no list spots remain. Late picks they have start @ pick 46 as you've stated & will be used for points (Michalanney).

Watching the SA vs Vic Country coverage, respected talent watcher Mick Ablett rated Isaac Keeler 4th in his top 5 draft picks at the time (along with Ashcroft/Sheezel/Phillipou/Clark).

No way a guy of Keeler's size and talent falls beyond 40 in a shallow draft year.
Crows went all in on Rankine and Michalanney was reasonably within their control as a FS pick as opposed to NGA.
They probably just accepted that Keeler won't be their's this draft and presumably will have a crack in a couple of years time.

 

[Jafo]

Shop - The Pendleburys

thependleburys.com.au

 

[KJpie]

Watching the SA vs Vic Country coverage, respected talent watcher Mick Ablett rated Isaac Keeler 4th in his top 5 draft picks at the time (along with Ashcroft/Sheezel/Phillipou/Clark).

No way a guy of Keeler's size and talent falls beyond 40 in a shallow draft year.
Crows went all in on Rankine and Michalanney was reasonably within their control as a FS pick as opposed to NGA.
They probably just accepted that Keeler won't be their's this draft and presumably will have a crack in a couple of years time.

Agree, Keeler goes relatively early and they are short of list spots.

 

[sr36]

Agree, Keeler goes to early and they are short of list spots.
On a slightly different note, with the amount of talls they have at their disposal as per Party pies list, it gives me the shits we gave up our future 3rd for Frampton, a player I believe they would have delisted anyway. A token 4th rounder should have been plenty.

Supposedly there was another keen club - I can't remember who. A future third from a club that finished top 4 really is the least you can expect to pay for a player with some interest.

 

[KJpie]

Supposedly there was another keen club - I can't remember who. A future third from a club that finished top 4 really is the least you can expect to pay for a player with some interest.

Unaware of another club & don't see the other club as an issue.
Frampton wanted to get to the Pies & the player tends to get to the club of their choice for unders more & more so each year

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Supposedly there was another keen club - I can't remember who. A future third from a club that finished top 4 really is the least you can expect to pay for a player with some interest.

Saints, allegedly.

 

[The Royal Sampler]

Unaware of another club & don't see the other club as an issue as Frampton wanted to get to the Pies & the player tends to get to the club of their choice for unders more & more so each year

This is also true. Once a player states their intended destination, it shouldn’t matter much in terms of trade compensation whether there were multiple suitors, only what the two clubs involved find to be acceptable.

On the other hand, we did offer him three years, so we were pretty keen.

I think in the end we’ll be pretty happy with what we get from Frampton, and future third/future fourth discussions will become somewhat moot.

 

[partypie]

Thought there were just the 3 list spots available for the Crows, 2 commited to rookie upgrades & the last for F/S nominee Michalanney who could go prior to 30?
If so, no list spots remain. Late picks they have start @ pick 46 as you've stated & will be used for points (Michalanney).

They're currently at 36 senior + 5 rookie = 41 players.

Demoting Seedsman and McPherson while promoting Butters and Strachan leaves them in the same position.

This means they need to make at least one live selection in the ND, but they could make a second ND selection if they wished to.

 

[Jen2310]

COLLINGWOOD​

2019
National Pick 40: Jay Rantall (Mid, 5 games, Delisted in 2021)
National Pick 45: Trent Bianco (Mid/Def, 22 games, Signed to 2023)
National Pick 55: Trey Ruscoe (Def, 17 games, Signed to 2023)
2020
National Pick 17: Oliver Henry (Fwd, 25 games, Traded to Geelong in 2022)
National Pick 19: Finlay Macrae (Mid, 11 games, Signed to 2024)
National Pick 23: Reef McInnes (Mid, 6 games, Signed to 2024)
National Pick 30: Caleb Poulter (Mid, 12 games, Delisted in 2022)
National Pick 31: Liam McMahon (Fwd, 0 games, Delisted in 2022)
National Pick 44: Beau McCreery (Fwd, 35 games, Signed to 2024)
Rookie Pick 13: Jack Ginnivan (Fwd, 28 games, Signed to 2024)
Rookie Pick 28: Isaac Chugg (Mid/Def, 2 games, Delisted in 2022)
Mid-Season Pick 3: Ash Johnson (Fwd, 9 games, Signed to 2023)
Mid-Season Pick 18: Aiden Begg (Ruck/Fwd, 3 games, Signed to 2023)
2021
National Pick 4: Nick Daicos (Mid/Def, 25 games, Signed to 2025)
National Pick 45: Arlo Draper (Mid/Fwd, 0 games, Signed to 2023)
National Pick 49: Cooper Murley (Mid, 0 games, Delisted in 2022, but club committed to rookie-listing)
National Pick 52: Harvey Harrison (Mid, 0 games, Signed to 2023)
Rookie Pick 2: Charlie Dean (Def, 0 games, Signed to 2024)
Mid-Season Pick 9: Josh Carmichael (Mid, 7 games, Signed to 2023)



Father-son gun Nick Daicos headlines a talented crop of youngsters that the Magpies have been able to bring in but there are other gems taken outside of the national draft spotlight. Getting Jack Ginnivan, who is coming off a 40-major season and has quickly become one of the league’s best goalsneaks, in the rookie draft is a steal, Ash Johnson and Josh Carmichael are promising mid-season selections and Beau McCreery has filled a defensive forward role beautifully since being taken late in 2020. Losing Oliver Henry and delisting Caleb Poulter and Liam McMahon after two years are Collingwood’s only glaring knocks. The Magpies will be hoping for Finlay Macrae and Reef McInnes to take another step next year. Daicos could become of one of the best players in the competition in coming seasons.

Rating: 8/10​

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-every-clubs-recent-recruiting-rated/news-story/94e20d3257164fe2d403043f90fa5277

 

[jonbe54]

COLLINGWOOD​

2019
National Pick 40: Jay Rantall (Mid, 5 games, Delisted in 2021)
National Pick 45: Trent Bianco (Mid/Def, 22 games, Signed to 2023)
National Pick 55: Trey Ruscoe (Def, 17 games, Signed to 2023)
2020
National Pick 17: Oliver Henry (Fwd, 25 games, Traded to Geelong in 2022)
National Pick 19: Finlay Macrae (Mid, 11 games, Signed to 2024)
National Pick 23: Reef McInnes (Mid, 6 games, Signed to 2024)
National Pick 30: Caleb Poulter (Mid, 12 games, Delisted in 2022)
National Pick 31: Liam McMahon (Fwd, 0 games, Delisted in 2022)
National Pick 44: Beau McCreery (Fwd, 35 games, Signed to 2024)
Rookie Pick 13: Jack Ginnivan (Fwd, 28 games, Signed to 2024)
Rookie Pick 28: Isaac Chugg (Mid/Def, 2 games, Delisted in 2022)
Mid-Season Pick 3: Ash Johnson (Fwd, 9 games, Signed to 2023)
Mid-Season Pick 18: Aiden Begg (Ruck/Fwd, 3 games, Signed to 2023)
2021
National Pick 4: Nick Daicos (Mid/Def, 25 games, Signed to 2025)
National Pick 45: Arlo Draper (Mid/Fwd, 0 games, Signed to 2023)
National Pick 49: Cooper Murley (Mid, 0 games, Delisted in 2022, but club committed to rookie-listing)
National Pick 52: Harvey Harrison (Mid, 0 games, Signed to 2023)
Rookie Pick 2: Charlie Dean (Def, 0 games, Signed to 2024)
Mid-Season Pick 9: Josh Carmichael (Mid, 7 games, Signed to 2023)



Father-son gun Nick Daicos headlines a talented crop of youngsters that the Magpies have been able to bring in but there are other gems taken outside of the national draft spotlight. Getting Jack Ginnivan, who is coming off a 40-major season and has quickly become one of the league’s best goalsneaks, in the rookie draft is a steal, Ash Johnson and Josh Carmichael are promising mid-season selections and Beau McCreery has filled a defensive forward role beautifully since being taken late in 2020. Losing Oliver Henry and delisting Caleb Poulter and Liam McMahon after two years are Collingwood’s only glaring knocks. The Magpies will be hoping for Finlay Macrae and Reef McInnes to take another step next year. Daicos could become of one of the best players in the competition in coming seasons.

Rating: 8/10​

https://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/draft/afl-draft-every-clubs-recent-recruiting-rated/news-story/94e20d3257164fe2d403043f90fa5277

Just quietly building the list, our bottom 6 out of 22 is slowly but surely improving and that's the key to sustained success in the game.