List Mgmt. COLLINGWOOD Trade and F/A Discussion

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sr36

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Pendles will not be part of our next flag and is guiding the next group through not part of the rebuilt list in 3 years.
You only added him to boost your numbers.
I'd extend that to top 10 picks, top 5 being your absolute star types usually but elite talent in top 15 on ave.
Those ^^ teams fair far better when you do that but you do need 2 or 3 stars in that group of elites imo makes it much easier.

You also need to have bottomed in a draft that gives you a Hodge Martin Pettracca Franklin game changer instead of a Gibbs or Murphy type accumulator
You basically need a group that has been recruited, developed and coached extremely well. But yes, you're more likely to have them recruited well if a heap of top picks are at play.
 

loki04

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Richmond had three unless you’re not counting Prestia who was traded in

But I agree with your overall point
Most teams need at least 2 stars and typically that gets found in the top 5, yes you can luck out outside that or be real unlucky and get a Watts or Murphy.

Geelong lucked out given they loaded up in one of the best drafts of all time and also had3 handy father sons in Scarlett, Gaz jnr and Hawkins. They also lucked out Hawkins draft by taking a top 3 slider in Selwood at 6 due to injury concern over his knee (degenerative).
 

loki04

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Nope

Dogs had 5 to bid with when father son nominations were done.

FA compo was after that, their pick moved back (as did everyone) when Melbourne given pick3 compo for Frawley.

Moore a top5 pick....we lucked out with the system at the time to get him for unders.
Dogs been forking us over for a while now.
 

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loki04

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You basically need a group that has been recruited, developed and coached extremely well. But yes, you're more likely to have them recruited well if a heap of top picks are at play.
You have much higher chances of landing a player capable of doing what Martin or Pettracca has with those high end top 5 picks.

Yes you need a good group of players from all ranges of the draft and great coaching/development but that is stating the obvious.

You seem to be arguing you dont need those gun impact players in your team and it may be possible but its a damn sight harder and typically outlier for the teams who fit that bill.
 
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sr36

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You have much higher chances of landing a player capable of doing what Martin or Pettracca has with those high end top 5 picks.

Yes you need a good group of players from all ranges of the draft and great coaching/development but that is stating the obvious.

You seem to be arguing you dont need those gun impact players in your team and it may be possible but its a damn sight harder and typically outlier for the teams who fit that bill.
My view is simply that the Premiers don't tend to have any more than the average number of top picks in their team. With the exception of Geelong, most teams have a few blokes who went really early and a group that went pretty early. Plus a group who were picked latish. Our biggest issue is depth, due to having so few decent players that were picked late. We've bombed out in the backend of the ND and rookie drafts over the last decade. We already have top picks in our team - as many as most of the finalists and are likely to acquire more during the next few years. But, yes we need some of them to be guns, which will be a combination of good recruiting, good coaching and luck.
 

loki04

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My view is simply that the Premiers don't tend to have any more than the average number of top picks in their team. With the exception of Geelong, most teams have a few blokes who went really early and a group that went pretty early. Plus a group who were picked latish. Our biggest issue is depth, due to having so few decent players that were picked late. We've bombed out in the backend of the ND and rookie drafts over the last decade. We already have top picks in our team - as many as most of the finalists and are likely to acquire more during the next few years. But, yes we need some of them to be guns, which will be a combination of good recruiting, good coaching and luck.
Fair enough but its because not all drafts and talents are equal that teams find themselves backing up in the low end of a few drafts.

No one has said you need more then typical or a team full of them. This is something you have inferred or added, to those wanting to double dip next year.
But you do need at least one of them to be a game changer imo.

You also need to look at the age of said top liners.
Like you counting Pendles as one in this rebuild when we are 2 years in and he's 34 next year...

Degoey if he ever pulls his head in is the exact type you want unfortunately he mentally isn't there, to become consistently great week to week, quarter to quarter.
Hes more Stringer then Martin/Petracca.

Moore and Degoey (future at club in doubt) will be late 20s early 30s when this rebuild is contending.

WHE well he's a failed top 4 pick (relative to selection) we traded in, got 2 years left in him.

Grundy our other star despite the pick but again will be on the back straight later and likely surpassed by other rucks by then.
 

Apex36

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We're both wrong. Just looked it up. Pick 5.

There most have been a compo pick after the father son stuff.
Whatever you looked up was wrong. Brisbane had pick 5 which they traded to us for Beams, and we used it on JDG. The Dogs had pick 6, which they used to bid on Moore. They then traded it away with Griffen for Boyd.
 

sr36

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Whatever you looked up was wrong. Brisbane had pick 5 which they traded to us for Beams, and we used it on JDG. The Dogs had pick 6, which they used to bid on Moore. They then traded it away with Griffen for Boyd.
Father Son used to happen before anything else. Dogs had pick 5 which they offered up for Darcy Moore.

Their pick later moved to 6 after Frawley went FA
 

SchuPie

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Now to bring in Logan McDonald / Ben King in 2022
Maybe another tough speedy HBF and or intercepting KPD and off we go
 

doppleganger

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Father Son used to happen before anything else. Dogs had pick 5 which they offered up for Darcy Moore.

Their pick later moved to 6 after Frawley went FA
Yep.


Screenshot_20211126-171737_Samsung Internet.jpg


Yep Father Son bidding was done early October, before free agents and trade period.

Dogs finished 5th bottom, and had pick 5 when FS bidding was underway...they bid pick 5 for Moore.

Brisbane originally had pick 4.

Then Frawley left in FA to Hawks, the Dees were given 1st round compo...which meant they had pick 2 AND 3.

All other picks then shuffled back

Lions 4 went to 5
Dogs 5 (committed to Moore) went to 6 etc.

The clubs then used the downgraded shuffled picks in trade period.
 
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SchuPie

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Yep.


View attachment 1287912

Yep Father Son bidding was done early October, before free agents and trade period.

Dogs finished 5th bottom, and had pick 5 when FS bidding was underway...they bid pick 5 for Moore.

Brisbane originally had pick 4.

Then Frawley left in FA to Hawks, the Dees were given 1st round compo...which meant they had pick 2 AND 3.

All other picks then shuffled back

Lions 4 went to 5
Dogs 5 (committed to Moore) went to 6 etc.

The clubs then used the downgraded shuffled picks in trade period.
1 Paddy Mc
2 Trac
3. Brayshaw
4 Pickett
5 JDG
6 Marchbank
7 Ahern
8 2MP
9 Moore

are we all saying the same thing in diff ways?
 

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doppleganger

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1 Paddy Mc
2 Trac
3. Brayshaw
4 Pickett
5 JDG
6 Marchbank
7 Ahern
8 2MP
9 Moore

are we all saying the same thing in diff ways?
That list is the eventual draft order...not relevant to father son / academy bidding as per 2014 rules...which was done PRE FA and draft.

The Dees didn't have pick 2 AND 3 when father son bidding was done, just pick 2...which they bid on Heeney.

If people are wanting to note what bid the Dogs used to force us to match Moore, it was pick 5 when FS bidding process was done.

So yes, if being wrong is the same as being right than everyone is bang on!! Perhaps some of us are just more right than others.
 

Apex36

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Father Son used to happen before anything else. Dogs had pick 5 which they offered up for Darcy Moore.

Their pick later moved to 6 after Frawley went FA
Frawley was signed as a free agent on the 6th of October, the same day F/S and academy bidding was held. Unless you can prove to me the bids were before he signed I’m not backing down! 😂
 

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