List Mgmt. Collingwood Trade Talk 2015

What Trade Happens 1st


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Tails1

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In Freeman's defence how do we know that this is not a ploy from the club to get a more desired outcome.

Maybe the club has given him a contract on unders in an attempt to push him to the market to see what might come back.

Yes he was a high pick and we haven't got return on that investment but his potential (which he may never live up to due to injury) would also make him attractive somewhere else. If he lands us a good 2nd that can be used in Treloar or Aish (rated higher in same draft) no harm, no foul IMO.

Like Seed and maybe Witts they are our carrots to help us get to our end game.
 

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Baltimore Jack

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Freeman is asking for market value. If another club is prepared to offer that then he is entitled to ask. Hopefully the club can meet him half way because it would be a real shame to lose him.
Exactly. I don't want to see the kid go, but if St Kilda are offering $250k, the kid would be nuts not to take it
 

NT.Thunder

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Regarding Dangerfield - personally I can't see him coming to Collingwood, but I seriously hope we are up to our eyeballs in this deal behind the scenes, even if it is to just keep Geelong honest. I'd hate to see him head to the Cat's for next to nothing.

Regarding Freeman - laughable if that's true. The club wouldn't be so stupid to pay a player $250k who is yet to play a game. I imagine we've already invested that and more into his rehabilitation from injury and to come out and ask for that sort of coin is a little cheeky. At some point players need to give something back to the club and once they do they will be more than adequately remunerated. I'd be happy to pay base wage of low - mid $100k with incentives like senior games played and performance based measures but I suspect Freeman would be wary of this type of contract because he knows he hasn't proved anything at AFL level.

What's the deal with incentives and performance measures in contracts for AFL footballers. A few years ago these were pretty common in many industries, I know I had incentives and performance measures in my employment which kept me honest, so why can't these be flowed on to AFL footballers.
 

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Freeman is asking for market value. If another club is prepared to offer that then he is entitled to ask. Hopefully the club can meet him half way because it would be a real shame to lose him.
Freo is offering McCarthy 700k
If 1 club wants to pay overs it doesn't make it market value.

So would you pay him the same as Crisp who is apparently on about the same?

Meeting him half way would be 125k and thats I'd be fine with the club offering him that..
 
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Exactly. I don't want to see the kid go, but if St Kilda are offering $250k, the kid would be nuts not to take it
For a kid that hasn't been on the big stage once and seems to have a lot of bad luck with injury, he must be an absolute gun to be offered $250k pa. well done saints. Obviously know a lot more than we do. Billings must be on at least $400kpa
 

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So take this however you like...
My mate Robert plays football with Nathan freeman's brother. He heard as recently as this week that Nathan was being offered 250K plus from the saints, and his manager was wanting the same from Collingwood.
I did my research into Robert, and he indeed is decent mates.
Just thought I'll leave that here.
I've never met a Robert I couldn't trust. I'm convinced
 

Apex36

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Sorry but if Howe is a legitimate option then we'd be crazy not to take him.

Super accurate shot for goal and great hands. In a forward line consisting of Cloke, Moore, Fasolo and Elliott, Howe could do some genuine damage.
You're basing this off the one good game he played this year, which happened to be against us aren't you?

He is not worth anywhere near the coin he wants. Pass.
 

Shpeshal Ed

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You're basing this off the one good game he played this year, which happened to be against us aren't you?

He is not worth anywhere near the coin he wants. Pass.
Off the Pies game? Nah. I like him. I think he has attributes that would suit our forward line. Actually, he has the same attributes Fasolo had. Good hands and an accurate kick. With Fasolo no longer being an accurate kick, he serves no purpose in our side, might as well replace him with a like for like.

But what sort of dollars is he asking for? I have no idea.
 

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Off the Pies game? Nah. I like him. I think he has attributes that would suit our forward line. Actually, he has the same attributes Fasolo had. Good hands and an accurate kick. With Fasolo no longer being an accurate kick, he serves no purpose in our side, might as well replace him with a like for like.

But what sort of dollars is he asking for? I have no idea.
Reportedly around 600k
 

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NT.Thunder

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I can't believe these numbers being asked for by players, guys having not even played a game expecting to get over $200k and a list clogger like Howe asking for $600k - please!

If he was worth $600k, you would imagine Melbourne would be paying him that to stay.

The average AFL player salary last year was below $250k. How does a guy, yet to play senior football even attract the average salary?

Murphy, Mundy and Sam Mitchell were reportedly attracting between $500k - $600k last season, somehow the name Howe just doesn't fit in the bracket of players for me.
 

ThePhantom777

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Was this your idea or did you see my post from the other day?

I swear I said almost the EXACT same thing. But I thought that with rumours of Scharenberg leaving, we were plotting with Adelaide to get them to convince Danger to come to the pies so they can "match" our offer and we give them Scharenberg and maybe throw in Ben Ken.
I saw your post, but until Danger signs with someone I hold out hope that we might get him.
 

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Whoa.

Yeah nah. 300-350 seems fair-ish.
In April the Herald Sun reported that there were multiple clubs chasing Howe and offering him $550-$650k per year.

If that figure holds true I don't want anything to do with him. As you say, halve that and you might be more interested.

Reminds me of some of the insane numbers that were floated for Chip Frawley last year. We should be wary of players who do well (but not superbly well), in awful sides. They may have value but their place within their own club's pecking order seems to make them appear a little shinier than they actually are.
 

didaksrightfoot

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He hasn't played a game of afl. I just think he's being insanely dumb. We've got players like Frost who's been on the rookie list played 30+ games and are not chasing money. He literally should be taking anything we give. But I bet his manager in his ear coz the bigger the pay for Freeman, the more the manager gets paid.
Think of it this way:
This is a kid who has probably sacrificed a lot to try and make it in the AFL, and after 2 years on the sidelines probably has serious doubts about his chances of having a lengthy career.

There is a chance that this may be the only "high paying" contract he ever has the opportunity to get, if his hamstrings don't ever play ball. If he is being offered a higher, longer, salary from an opposition club, he would be stupid not to go for it... Because theres a chance that after this ones done, no club would br willing to offer him more than a rookie spot, or he might only get to play VFL level, or might need to look at a different career altogether.

AFL playets already have limited money-earning years in the sport: someone with 2 years of hamstring issues might be even more limited. I completely understand why he would seriously consider all offers... Particularly if another club is willing to offer significantly more than we are.
 
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didaksrightfoot

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For a kid that hasn't been on the big stage once and seems to have a lot of bad luck with injury, he must be an absolute gun to be offered $250k pa. well done saints. Obviously know a lot more than we do. Billings must be on at least $400kpa
Well - St Kilda probably have a lot of wiggle room under the cap and are looking for young players that they can continue to develop. It makes sense for them to be willing to take a bit more of a financial risk with Freeman - because they wont be expecting anything short term, but would have hopes long-term... And they probably have a lot of space to offer him the extra 50-100k needed to get him to move without it effecting other deals.
 

didaksrightfoot

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Freo is offering McCarthy 700k
If 1 club wants to pay overs it doesn't make it market value.

So would you pay him the same as Crisp who is apparently on about the same?

Meeting him half way would be 125k and thats I'd be fine with the club offering him that..
If Freo is willing to pay $700k that makes it MARKET VALUE... It is what the free market determines his price to be.
That that does not mean they arent overpaying for him (which generally you have to do for free agents) or that it is value for money compared to the alternatives (though Freo is short in this for KPF)... But it is what the market has priced him as.

The market for Freeman now has him priced at 250k - because that is what a team is willing to offer.
Now how we respond is completely up to us - its for the club to determine how much they rate him, and how close they are willing to get to St kildas offer... And its up to Freeman to decide how much of a discount (if any) hes willing to take to stay here.

I will say some of the offers people are suggesting (100-125k) would be insulting... Isnt that less than what he gets on his first year contract? If we are offering only half what the Saints are, he would be stupid not to go where the money is.
 

Apex36

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If Freo is willing to pay $700k that makes it MARKET VALUE... It is what the free market determines his price to be.
That that does not mean they arent overpaying for him (which generally you have to do for free agents) or that it is value for money compared to the alternatives (though Freo is short in this for KPF)... But it is what the market has priced him as.

The market for Freeman now has him priced at 250k - because that is what a team is willing to offer.
Now how we respond is completely up to us - its for the club to determine how much they rate him, and how close they are willing to get to St kildas offer... And its up to Freeman to decide how much of a discount (if any) hes willing to take to stay here.

I will say some of the offers people are suggesting (100-125k) would be insulting... Isnt that less than what he gets on his first year contract? If we are offering only half what the Saints are, he would be stupid not to go where the money is.
From memory first year contract is just under $100k + $3k match payments (roughly). At a guess I'd say the club is offering around the $150k mark + match payments. If he played every game next year that mean he would get about $220kish.

You'd assume though that $250k flat rate would be far more appealing to him though given his issues over the past 2 years.
 

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If Freo is willing to pay $700k that makes it MARKET VALUE... It is what the free market determines his price to be.
That that does not mean they arent overpaying for him (which generally you have to do for free agents) or that it is value for money compared to the alternatives (though Freo is short in this for KPF)... But it is what the market has priced him as.

The market for Freeman now has him priced at 250k - because that is what a team is willing to offer.
Now how we respond is completely up to us - its for the club to determine how much they rate him, and how close they are willing to get to St kildas offer... And its up to Freeman to decide how much of a discount (if any) hes willing to take to stay here.

I will say some of the offers people are suggesting (100-125k) would be insulting... Isnt that less than what he gets on his first year contract? If we are offering only half what the Saints are, he would be stupid not to go where the money is.
His 1st Year Salary - $71,515 + Match Payments of $3,500 for being a 1st round draft pick.

His 2nd year Salary based on no matches played in 2014 - $72,970 + Match Payments of $3,745

Now based off his input to date is he worthy of more than 3 times his current base salary.

Emphatic No.
 

didaksrightfoot

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His 1st Year Salary - $71,515 + Match Payments of $3,500 for being a 1st round draft pick.

His 2nd year Salary based on no matches played in 2014 - $72,970 + Match Payments of $3,745

Now based off his input to date is he worthy of more than 3 times his current salary.

Emphatic No.
Thanks for adding 1st year salaries - i thought it was quite a bit higher for first round picks. (can i ask where you got that?)
---

Im not saying he is worth 250k- im saying that is what he is being offered elsewhere, and it is up to us decide how close to that we want to get to try to keep him- because the numbers being thrown around just wouldnt cut it.

There seems to be a lot of antagonism int his thread towards him if he leaves - and i think that is completely uncalled for. Taking the garaunteed money, or getting us to come closer to matching it, is clearly the correct decision for him at this stage - and i wouldnt begrudge him at all if he took it, and would be disappointed if other pies fans turned on him (which some appear to be doing already)
 

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His 1st Year Salary - $71,515 + Match Payments of $3,500 for being a 1st round draft pick.

His 2nd year Salary based on no matches played in 2014 - $72,970 + Match Payments of $3,745

Now based off his input to date is he worthy of more than 3 times his current base salary.

Emphatic No.
Maybe 'no' to us, but clearly 'yes' to St Kilda i.e. market forces
 

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Thanks for adding 1st year salaries - i thought it was quite a bit higher for first round picks. (can i ask where you got that?)
---

Im not saying he is worth 250k- im saying that is what he is being offered elsewhere, and it is up to us decide how close to that we want to get to try to keep him- because the numbers being thrown around just wouldnt cut it.

There seems to be a lot of antagonism int his thread towards him if he leaves - and i think that is completely uncalled for. Taking the garaunteed money, or getting us to come closer to matching it, is clearly the correct decision for him at this stage - and i wouldnt begrudge him at all if he took it, and would be disappointed if other pies fans turned on him (which some appear to be doing already)
I certainly wouldn't boo him but would be pretty disappointed if he left for money without ever proving his worth.

Obviously we arent privy to contract negotiations but i would think we would be offering 1 year with a 2nd year clause based on VFL/AFL games played in 2016.
 

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Greg Swann "Martin is contracted and he is going nowhere."

Either they finally get the joke or this is the saddest thing I have ever seen. You would think Beams could at least spot them a couple of bucks to get one PR guy up there.
Disappointed he wasn't referred to as Marto
 
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