Game Day Collingwood v GWS Giants - Preliminary Finals — Sat 21 Sep, 4:35PM AEST, MCG

Who will Win?

  • Collingwood by 30+ pts

    Votes: 35 27.1%
  • Collingwood 10-30

    Votes: 48 37.2%
  • Collingwood by <10

    Votes: 9 7.0%
  • GWS Giants by <10

    Votes: 12 9.3%
  • GWS Giants by 10-30

    Votes: 14 10.9%
  • GWS Giants by 30+

    Votes: 11 8.5%

  • Total voters
    129
  • Poll closed .

The Filth

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You didn't read this part of the article then? This is exactly what I was saying Vic people just walk straight past the facts and have an alternative footy universe happening.

"Of the 11 Victorian Club companies it appears that seven of them are technically insolvent. These clubs are Fitzroy, Geelong, Footscray, Collingwood, Melbourne, North Melbourne and Richmond," he wrote on August 8, 1986."

I know it's hard to accept that even the Pies were staring down the barrel but staring down the barrel they were!!

And ... yes the licences fees from Brisbane and WCE did save their busted broke miserable arses!

INSOLVENT = can't pay your debts if called due.
Enouh of this crap.
The registration fees paid by West Coast and Brisbane totalled $8m
If the monies received were equally distubuted amongst the VFL clubs (and they weren't) - each club would have received $666,000 dollars (based on 12 clubs).
There was the small matter of Fitzroy and Sydney at the time - and the AFL underwriting them.

You are also assuming that the licence fees were "paid" out to clubs in the applicable financial year - and they weren't.

So your telling me that Collingwood - who had a debt that year of 3.5 million were able to pay off their debt with $666,000 (which they never received) and be in the black with a year.
The wording 'technically insolvent' is obviously a phrase that you don't understand.
The Pies had a cash flow problem which they were able to trade out of themselves.
They were never bankrupt or placed under administration.
Licence fees or not the Pies did not rely on these monies to survive.
 

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citizen-erased

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Yep.
But if you look at it realistically there are too many teams in Victoria.
WA or SA may be able to cater for a 3rd team, there should be a team in Tassie and the Gold Coast is a failed experiment that aint gonna work.
You'll never be able to cut or merge the 3 or 4 teams from Victoria though. No-one would allow it.
The talent pool is becoming too thin because of the number of clubs.
The draw is inequitable etc etc.
You could demote the licences to the vfl Nd probabky not impact the league that much

A conversation for another thread

Sad for pendles. But happy for gws.
And enjoyed a cracking prelim.
 

Jirik13

Club Legend
Jan 22, 2018
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Yep.
But if you look at it realistically there are too many teams in Victoria.
WA or SA may be able to cater for a 3rd team, there should be a team in Tassie and the Gold Coast is a failed experiment that aint gonna work.
You'll never be able to cut or merge the 3 or 4 teams from Victoria though. No-one would allow it.
The talent pool is becoming too thin because of the number of clubs.
The draw is inequitable etc etc.
As a person who moved to Australia and developed passion for footy I am still amazed how biased towards VFL Melbourne commentators, fans, AFL headquarters is. I would say it's one step forward 2 steps back sometimes towards national competition. It feels like it's a national competition only because VFL would not survive on its own and a need for money coming from national TV rights.

9 teams in Melbourne is beyond joke.

If you want the game to grow, get more money from TV rights, have a bigger talent pool you want to expand AFL - in that aspect starting Suns and GWS was a right decision. How it was done is the issue.

People criticising Suns - do you realise that Suns were created and are run by AFL? If you want to criticise someone go after AFL (VFL). How they set up Suns is laughable. Suns got essentially half of Giants concessions. Can you imagine that Pies would start in NRL dominated region in metal sheds for 8 years while underfunded in every aspect and run by coach, admin who were never in that position before? I listened to McKenna's interviews a couple of times after he was fired. When Suns started he wanted a double number of mature players - not done because of limited resources. After 1st season in 2012, Suns went back to AFL that they are min 800K short in medical/performance dept compared to other teams - not fixed. Even this year Sun are still 1M below soft cap.

More AFL jokes - 3rd party/commercial deals in Melbourne, NGA, players movement rules, fixture.

No doubt the game grows in QLD. More talents will flow from QLD into talent pool.
“There will be 250,000 participants this year (2018) in AFL across Queensland. What’s significant about a quarter of a million people, kids is that 10 years ago, that number was less than 25,000.”

How to fix Suns? Not a rocket science - give them extra picks, extra salary cap to attract quality mature players and resources comparable to the best teams. Once Suns play finals you can take concessions away. Will it happen? Probably not as Eddie and co constantly whinge about unfair advantages Suns get. Let's see what AFL commission will come up with next week.
 

Bloodied52

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Happily the non Thomas goal was not a factor. While an honest mistake there would have been controversy over McGuires financial interest in ARC.

Of course there would be no bias but there remains a perceived conflict of interest.
 

kirky

Brownlow Medallist
Dec 29, 2000
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As a person who moved to Australia and developed passion for footy I am still amazed how biased towards VFL Melbourne commentators, fans, AFL headquarters is. I would say it's one step forward 2 steps back sometimes towards national competition. It feels like it's a national competition only because VFL would not survive on its own and a need for money coming from national TV rights.

9 teams in Melbourne is beyond joke.

If you want the game to grow, get more money from TV rights, have a bigger talent pool you want to expand AFL - in that aspect starting Suns and GWS was a right decision. How it was done is the issue.

People criticising Suns - do you realise that Suns were created and are run by AFL? If you want to criticise someone go after AFL (VFL). How they set up Suns is laughable. Suns got essentially half of Giants concessions. Can you imagine that Pies would start in NRL dominated region in metal sheds for 8 years while underfunded in every aspect and run by coach, admin who were never in that position before? I listened to McKenna's interviews a couple of times after he was fired. When Suns started he wanted a double number of mature players - not done because of limited resources. After 1st season in 2012, Suns went back to AFL that they are min 800K short in medical/performance dept compared to other teams - not fixed. Even this year Sun are still 1M below soft cap.

More AFL jokes - 3rd party/commercial deals in Melbourne, NGA, players movement rules, fixture.

No doubt the game grows in QLD. More talents will flow from QLD into talent pool.
“There will be 250,000 participants this year (2018) in AFL across Queensland. What’s significant about a quarter of a million people, kids is that 10 years ago, that number was less than 25,000.”

How to fix Suns? Not a rocket science - give them extra picks, extra salary cap to attract quality mature players and resources comparable to the best teams. Once Suns play finals you can take concessions away. Will it happen? Probably not as Eddie and co constantly whinge about unfair advantages Suns get. Let's see what AFL commission will come up with next week.
Amazed? This comp is like no other - which other competition allows its grand final to be played on a ground where one of the teams plays 9 of its last 10 games there and is its home ground. Which other competition? None.

Go GWS.
 

The Filth

Premiership Player
Feb 18, 2009
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As a person who moved to Australia and developed passion for footy I am still amazed how biased towards VFL Melbourne commentators, fans, AFL headquarters is. I would say it's one step forward 2 steps back sometimes towards national competition. It feels like it's a national competition only because VFL would not survive on its own and a need for money coming from national TV rights.

9 teams in Melbourne is beyond joke.

If you want the game to grow, get more money from TV rights, have a bigger talent pool you want to expand AFL - in that aspect starting Suns and GWS was a right decision. How it was done is the issue.

People criticising Suns - do you realise that Suns were created and are run by AFL? If you want to criticise someone go after AFL (VFL). How they set up Suns is laughable. Suns got essentially half of Giants concessions. Can you imagine that Pies would start in NRL dominated region in metal sheds for 8 years while underfunded in every aspect and run by coach, admin who were never in that position before? I listened to McKenna's interviews a couple of times after he was fired. When Suns started he wanted a double number of mature players - not done because of limited resources. After 1st season in 2012, Suns went back to AFL that they are min 800K short in medical/performance dept compared to other teams - not fixed. Even this year Sun are still 1M below soft cap.

More AFL jokes - 3rd party/commercial deals in Melbourne, NGA, players movement rules, fixture.

No doubt the game grows in QLD. More talents will flow from QLD into talent pool.
“There will be 250,000 participants this year (2018) in AFL across Queensland. What’s significant about a quarter of a million people, kids is that 10 years ago, that number was less than 25,000.”

How to fix Suns? Not a rocket science - give them extra picks, extra salary cap to attract quality mature players and resources comparable to the best teams. Once Suns play finals you can take concessions away. Will it happen? Probably not as Eddie and co constantly whinge about unfair advantages Suns get. Let's see what AFL commission will come up with next week.
Interesting comments. Appreciate your views - although I beg to differ in some points you raise.
Would love to continue but sorry I seemed to have derailed this thread - maybe a new thread should be created to discuss these matters further.

As for the budding 'accountants' who believed that Collingwood was saved from bankrupty from licensing fees for the AFL - enough of your crap.
Derailing the thread as well.
Create a thread for that too.

Congrats to GWS.
 

The Filth

Premiership Player
Feb 18, 2009
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Amazed? This comp is like no other - which other competition allows its grand final to be played on a ground where one of the teams plays 9 of its last 10 games there and is its home ground. Which other competition? None.

Go GWS.
So no-one should play on the MCG in the home and away season? :drunk:
Anyway if your one who believes in promoting home finals for the team who finished higher on the ladder during the H&A season - it would still be Richmond at the 'G next week.

Oh and I might as well ask you the rhetorical questions that apply to my club...
Which comp has a skewed draw which means my club only got to play the bottom side once?
Which comp also determines that we play your side only once this season and that we have to play it on your home ground in Adelaide?
(not that it did you much good - you lost by 11 goals)
 
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The Filth

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Don’t hate our success record GE. Embrace the spectacle we have given over the last 5 decades.

Preach love not war. 😘
Loved watching Hawthorn play finals.
Teams that were always balanced with skill, toughness at the contest, played an entertaining style of footy, had personalities, star players and the right amount of mongrel if required without going too far over the top (except maybe Matthews on Bruns)
 

Demontim275

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Sep 13, 2019
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Amazed? This comp is like no other - which other competition allows its grand final to be played on a ground where one of the teams plays 9 of its last 10 games there and is its home ground. Which other competition? None.

Go GWS.
Plenty. Because Richmond earned two home finals.

Haven’t people been whinging for years about the highest ranked team getting the game?
 

sounda

Team Captain
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Enouh of this crap.
The registration fees paid by West Coast and Brisbane totalled $8m
If the monies received were equally distubuted amongst the VFL clubs (and they weren't) - each club would have received $666,000 dollars (based on 12 clubs).
There was the small matter of Fitzroy and Sydney at the time - and the AFL underwriting them.

You are also assuming that the licence fees were "paid" out to clubs in the applicable financial year - and they weren't.

So your telling me that Collingwood - who had a debt that year of 3.5 million were able to pay off their debt with $666,000 (which they never received) and be in the black with a year.
The wording 'technically insolvent' is obviously a phrase that you don't understand.
The Pies had a cash flow problem which they were able to trade out of themselves.
They were never bankrupt or placed under administration.
Licence fees or not the Pies did not rely on these monies to survive.

Seriously?

Mate - I don't care whether you believe it or not - it is fact - as inconvenient as it might be for you to hear.

And FYI : technically insolvent means that it has a negative net asset value; its liabilities are greater than its assets.

So .... if all of the liabilities are called in or, fall due then .... well .... it should be obvious even to the most rusted on Pies supporter.

Liabilities are greater than its assets.

Concern was great enough that Gordon Lewis was going to close those 7 clubs down if the league couldn't come up with a convincing solution.

And because those 7 clubs had no money the WCE had to pay for their flights to WA to play at Subi in the early days. Many Vics will not know that small fact either.

Anyway, it's all history now and I don't mind the Pies as a club as their supporters walked out of the MCG in sportsman like fashion last year. I know I was there. But it would be refreshing to hear some in the Vic media acknowledge the contribution of interstate teams to the AFL and stop with their biased crap.

Commentary team on Fox yesterday was just an extension of the Pies cheer squad. May as well asked Joffa to join them. Truly awful adolescent bias.
 

WCfan22

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Apr 1, 2019
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Seriously?

Mate - I don't care whether you believe it or not - it is fact - as inconvenient as it might be for you to hear.

And FYI : technically insolvent means that it has a negative net asset value; its liabilities are greater than its assets.

So .... if all of the liabilities are called in or, fall due then .... well .... it should be obvious even to the most rusted on Pies supporter.

Liabilities are greater than its assets.

Concern was great enough that Gordon Lewis was going to close those 7 clubs down if the league couldn't come up with a convincing solution.

And because those 7 clubs had no money the WCE had to pay for their flights to WA to play at Subi in the early days. Many Vics will not know that small fact either.

Anyway, it's all history now and I don't mind the Pies as a club as their supporters walked out of the MCG in sportsman like fashion last year. I know I was there. But it would be refreshing to hear some in the Vic media acknowledge the contribution of interstate teams to the AFL and stop with their biased crap.

Commentary team on Fox yesterday was just an extension of the Pies cheer squad. May as well asked Joffa to join them. Truly awful adolescent bias.
Would've been heaps better commentary had joffa been on there instead of the band wagon that is seven.
 

JoondalupJ

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Seriously?

Mate - I don't care whether you believe it or not - it is fact - as inconvenient as it might be for you to hear.

And FYI : technically insolvent means that it has a negative net asset value; its liabilities are greater than its assets.

So .... if all of the liabilities are called in or, fall due then .... well .... it should be obvious even to the most rusted on Pies supporter.

Liabilities are greater than its assets.

Concern was great enough that Gordon Lewis was going to close those 7 clubs down if the league couldn't come up with a convincing solution.

And because those 7 clubs had no money the WCE had to pay for their flights to WA to play at Subi in the early days. Many Vics will not know that small fact either.

Anyway, it's all history now and I don't mind the Pies as a club as their supporters walked out of the MCG in sportsman like fashion last year. I know I was there. But it would be refreshing to hear some in the Vic media acknowledge the contribution of interstate teams to the AFL and stop with their biased crap.

Commentary team on Fox yesterday was just an extension of the Pies cheer squad. May as well asked Joffa to join them. Truly awful adolescent bias.
I'm a Vic , and the WCE did save clubs but WCE and Freo our from football states, and the VFL at the time was almost a National competition any way.
My beef is that the game has gone backwards once the AFL threw millions at two robot clubs inventions, sure they'll get their history in 50 or 100 years,

BUT NEITHER NEW TEAMS HAVE HELPED OUR AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL GAME
AFL HAS SPENT THE LAST TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS MANIPULATING THE SPORT FOR THIS TV RIGHTS PAIR.
 

WCfan22

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You are a rude little person. But being rude doesn't make you understand a point that I've made dozens of times over some years !

I like the national competition where it is played by traditional football states, we didn't need two new teams in NSW and QLD.
How many times do you need to be told, has got me .

Of course everyone has to start somewhere, but GWS and GC17 WEREN'T STARTED , THEY WE CREATED MANUFACTURED GIVEN FAVOUR AFTER FAVOUR AND WERE INVENTED FOR MONEY. Grow some common sense and see where I am coming from.

Demetriou and the then Gil boy apprentice, wanted Footscray and North Melbourne to re locate, they wouldn't.
The people who followed them fought like frigging hell to stay alive in their hometown, if they had have caved in and gone where they were asked , they would have brought a culture with them like South and Fitzroy did, and money and a backing from the AFL the common people/fans/followers/members put their own money in too

!And hear this!
THERE'D BE ONLY 16 TEAMS IN THE LEAGUE. Get it????????? The game wouldn't have had to be fiddled with , because we would have had a smaller player pool and would need about 100 players LESS of elite NEW boys to deal with .
To give better standard to the game! WE ALREADY HAVE TEAMS IN NSW AND QLD ,and well well well they are successful . yes?

Admittedly helped a little too, BUT NOT LIKE THE MILLION DOLLAR PLASTICS NOW.


The players are not my target, except for the rat Greene, the team is not my target, its the rotten manipulative system that makes me angry, I am not a VFL follower , I look at Box Hill sometimes to see how Hawthorn players are running, I haven't seen a game at Whitehorse and Middleborough road ground for decades , that was VFA and probably second division, I've followed WEST PERTH AND SWAN DISTRICTS IN THIS STATE , BUT MY HOME IN MELBOURNE ONCE UPON A TIME YOU COULD WATCH FOOTY AND ENJOY IT, YESTERDAY WAS A ROTTEN LOOKING RUGBY STYLED GAME , BECAUSE SOME SIDES PLAY THAT LOCK DOWN.
BECAUSE THEY CAN'T WIN IN THE OPEN, SO THEY HAVE STOPPAGES, stoppages ????? Rugby!
THE GAME NOW IS FULL OF STOPPAGES, ITS NOW A TACTIC NOW!,

Well MORE things have changed and when umpires dictate matches , talk patronisingly to players and make mistakes by the ton, and when bloody Gerard Healy talks on TV about... " pay more frees"... I nearly fall off the couch. Stop start, and pack football.

Looking like something out of the 60's on a mud packed surface??? Not on the beautiful surfaces like now days, but these bloke have to play with their capabilities on the ground , because out of all of them ,
OUT OF ALL OF THEM! A GREAT MANY CAN'T HANDLE THE BLEEDING PILL! You know what too, those old timers at that level weren't bad in the bog pile of mud in those day

TV rights were the whole reason , why the hell do you think that the AFL sends teams to China, to promote and make business deals and invent ways to MAKE MORE MONEY.

In doing so they have turned our AFL game that "IS" played in every state , before these two plastics came along, except for Tasmania and the Northern Territory.

It has seen the game changed the rules destroyed the free kick count massive the umpiring changing the game and dictating the game, it has seen inconclusive camera technology being used ( no not Pendleburys point/goal I saw the finger too) in so many cases , its seen one umpire pay something for the same thing the next umpire didn't !
If you haven't heard others beside me talk about it, then you are deaf.
The reason , preparation for two inventions one that is a basket case and will need propping up by Gil and his cronies again, the other given huge help as well, and after several short years is playing off in a grand final, are you blind too, where's your club been since 1964 .

Oh , that rubbish messy rugby match was meant to be an AFL Preliminary final. Even if it was pouring rain!
There I love a debate, bet there are a few who do too, but I say what I think, and next week is not feeling very exciting any more!

I remember Sydney premierships and the Lions too, but South and Fitzroy were there also as well as Sydney and Brisbane, What have we got next week, Gils Giant invention, v a real club!
If you can't see the difference , then leave the debate , but don't talk down to me , and I won't to you. Bye.
stopitcantbreate.jpg
 

The Filth

Premiership Player
Feb 18, 2009
4,023
4,057
Essendon
AFL Club
Collingwood
Seriously?

Mate - I don't care whether you believe it or not - it is fact - as inconvenient as it might be for you to hear.

And FYI : technically insolvent means that it has a negative net asset value; its liabilities are greater than its assets.

So .... if all of the liabilities are called in or, fall due then .... well .... it should be obvious even to the most rusted on Pies supporter.

Liabilities are greater than its assets.

Concern was great enough that Gordon Lewis was going to close those 7 clubs down if the league couldn't come up with a convincing solution.

And because those 7 clubs had no money the WCE had to pay for their flights to WA to play at Subi in the early days. Many Vics will not know that small fact either.

Anyway, it's all history now and I don't mind the Pies as a club as their supporters walked out of the MCG in sportsman like fashion last year. I know I was there. But it would be refreshing to hear some in the Vic media acknowledge the contribution of interstate teams to the AFL and stop with their biased crap.

Commentary team on Fox yesterday was just an extension of the Pies cheer squad. May as well asked Joffa to join them. Truly awful adolescent bias.
...and if all liabilies are called in Australia is bankrupt too? Doesn't happen.
Thats the point, irrespective of the level of debt the Pies were always going to be able to trade out of its debts and it did without the licence fees.
Creditors were never going to call up the debts. because they know its only a cash crisis - "technically insolvent" (I am glad you went and googled it - you might learn something)

Anyway enough of this bullshit.
Who's helping funding of the AFL now?
Whos getting less monies from the AFL than other clubs and paying more into the coffers than other clubs.
Which teams are contributing a "wealth tax" of $1m a year.
Ironically its Collingwood,
West Coast (you know, the expansion team with the licence fees that 'saved' us :rolleyes: ),
and Hawthorn who were solvent at the inception of the AFL - nearly had to merge under financial strain after the AFL was formed - found other revenue streams - and now being taxed extra as well.

As for biased crap - thats your perception, your hangup. Still wanting to hold up those "Kick a Vic" signs like the Sandgropers and Crows used to do in the days of state-of-origin footy eh
Keep up your hatred of the Pies - we love it.
 
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sounda

Team Captain
Suspended
Apr 29, 2016
324
477
AFL Club
West Coast
I'm a Vic , and the WCE did save clubs but WCE and Freo our from football states, and the VFL at the time was almost a National competition any way.
My beef is that the game has gone backwards once the AFL threw millions at two robot clubs inventions, sure they'll get their history in 50 or 100 years,

BUT NEITHER NEW TEAMS HAVE HELPED OUR AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL GAME
AFL HAS SPENT THE LAST TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS MANIPULATING THE SPORT FOR THIS TV RIGHTS PAIR.
"BUT NEITHER NEW TEAMS HAVE HELPED OUR AUSTRALIAN RULES FOOTBALL GAME
AFL HAS SPENT THE LAST TEN TO FIFTEEN YEARS MANIPULATING THE SPORT FOR THIS TV RIGHTS PAIR
."

Agree with you 100% that GC and GWS re simply sucking up resources and subsidies that could be better spent on grass roots footy in the footy states or a team in Tasmania.

Frankly, I would like to have seem the Pies win yesterday - not to please the AFL admin goons but for the supporters of two of Melbourne's biggest clubs.

The GF week in Melbourne would have been something else. I went for the entire week last year and was just an wonderful experience. How they hell can 15,000 GWS members make a GF week?

Anyway, good luck to both teams and their might be more seats available for the average punter next week -maybe.

AFL still trying to sell their 'premium packages'. Got an email this morning.
 

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