Moved Thread Collingwood V Port Adelaide Jumper Debate part2

[Fizzler]

Let's suppose this is real - which it probably is, but there's no official word other than Damian Barrett on the footy show.
If we join, there will be no Port Magpies in the SANFL. We're going to want the PB's to stay around, and there'll be no other way to keep the PB's other than wearing them in AFL Reserves. Port is very in touch with the fans, and know we will want to see the PB's live on.

 

[MarkT2]

Yeah, in the AFL, but this would be a newly formed reserves competition.

With an existing Collingwood (Magpies) reserves team enterring already wearing black and white stripes and a new Port Adelaide (Power) reserves team that has never worn black and white stripes?

 

[Still Crowing]

The current Port Adelaide team playing in the SANFL is the Port Adelaide reserves team. Just as the Adelaide team playing in the SANFL is Adelaides team. Both teams would leave the comp and not be replaced

This outcome would please a lot of SANFL diehards who claim the competition has been compromised by having AFL Reserves players running around against semi-pro players from the traditional SANFL clubs. Personally I would be happy to see them go. Apart from the money the Crows pay the SANFL every year, the 2 AFL teams bring nothing worthwhile to the comp. Certainly the Crows vastly overstated the number of fans they'd be bringing to grounds(they only play away games)Interestingly, Port refuse to pay a similar amount claiming they are Port so they should always be allowed to have a team in the SANFL if they wish to.

 

[Papa G]

This outcome would please a lot of SANFL diehards who claim the competition has been compromised by having AFL Reserves players running around against semi-pro players from the traditional SANFL clubs. Personally I would be happy to see them go. Apart from the money the Crows pay the SANFL every year, the 2 AFL teams bring nothing worthwhile to the comp. Certainly the Crows vastly overstated the number of fans they'd be bringing to grounds(they only play away games)Interestingly, Port refuse to pay a similar amount claiming they are Port so they should always be allowed to have a team in the SANFL if they wish to.

This is wrong. As part of the one club proposal, the Port Magpies gave up their $400,000 a year SANFL dividend, thus effectively giving the SANFL back $400,000 a year. It also gave up it's slice of the carve up of Football Park, meaning the other SANFL clubs get a bigger slice. More than generous I would have thought?

Any rate, this will further hasten the death of the SANFL. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[Dank Academy]

The only logical option is for Collingwood to enter the AFL Reserves under a different mascot and guernsey. Then both sides are compromised at one level or another.
Sorted.

 

[TY24]

Let's suppose this is real - which it probably is, but there's no official word other than Damian Barrett on the footy show.
If we join, there will be no Port Magpies in the SANFL. We're going to want the PB's to stay around, and there'll be no other way to keep the PB's other than wearing them in AFL Reserves. Port is very in touch with the fans, and know we will want to see the PB's live on.

Just because you want it to happen, doesn't mean it will.

The AFL will want uniform branding across the first and second division.
West Coast will not play as East Perth, Fremantle will not play as Peel or East Fremantle, Melbourne will not play as Casey, GWS will not play as UWS.

Port Adelaide will play as the Power, not the Magpies.

 

[Silent Alarm]

In the state league days, jumpers were so disparate because you had 8-12 teams.

These days you have 18. You can afford some foldover.

The biggest thing is that these days, we have Indigenous Round and retro jumpers and all sorts. The idea of a club being a certain image is diluting. Port throw away the teal for their Indigenous strips and theoretically could look more like Collingwood than the Pies do. Clubs chop and change and the average viewer doesn't really care.

The best outcome is the Pies returning to a majority white looking jumper and Port Adelaide going to the prison bars. One club is black and white and the other one basically just looks black.

At Adelaide Oval it would be all black versus all white (basically) and at the MCG it'd be a bit more difficult, but this is where Port can utilise a true tertiary (not additional for marks and splashes) colour and wear a teal jumper.

People would *in love the Power getting around in Prison Bars. It would also be insanely good marketing for two clubs who have almost no affiliation or rivalry... Battle Of The Stripes, Clash Of The Colours. I dunno. Both clubs have a very similar image of working class/boganism and tribalism... the idea of them both thinking they own the same colours is something really cool.

 

[Still Crowing]

This is wrong. As part of the one club proposal, the Port Magpies gave up their $400,000 a year SANFL dividend, thus effectively giving the SANFL back $400,000 a year. It also gave up it's slice of the carve up of Football Park, meaning the other SANFL clubs get a bigger slice. More than generous I would have thought?

Any rate, this will further hasten the death of the SANFL. Be careful what you wish for.

Believe me I get what you're trying to say. Now that the Crows have been paying a large sum of money to play their reserves in the SANFL, the League has become used to it and suddenly removing that income would be a worry for the bean counters. I am incredibly passionate about the SANFL and I am sure there is a place for it in the footy pyramid. What that is I am not exactly sure, but I wish the AFL would work with the various State Leagues to develop a whole of footy plan with clearly defined roles and responsibilities for the various tiers and clubs that play the game. Sometimes it seems as though the AFLonly focuses on itself and see leagues like the SANFL as competitors to be crushed rather than a valuable part of the game that can be harnessed for the greater good if the intention to work together could be fostered. Surely there is a sustainable position for the various State Leagues in our game? Now that the AFL has set itself up as the Governing body of our game it is up to them to think about the greater good and the future of the game to be handed down to our children rather than just focusing on the current FY numbers.

 

[Pappagallo]

In the state league days, jumpers were so disparate because you had 8-12 teams.

These days you have 18. You can afford some foldover.

The biggest thing is that these days, we have Indigenous Round and retro jumpers and all sorts. The idea of a club being a certain image is diluting. Port throw away the teal for their Indigenous strips and theoretically could look more like Collingwood than the Pies do. Clubs chop and change and the average viewer doesn't really care.

The best outcome is the Pies returning to a majority white looking jumper and Port Adelaide going to the prison bars. One club is black and white and the other one basically just looks black.

At Adelaide Oval it would be all black versus all white (basically) and at the MCG it'd be a bit more difficult, but this is where Port can utilise a true tertiary (not additional for marks and splashes) colour and wear a teal jumper.

People would ****in love the Power getting around in Prison Bars. It would also be insanely good marketing for two clubs who have almost no affiliation or rivalry... Battle Of The Stripes, Clash Of The Colours. I dunno. Both clubs have a very similar image of working class/boganism and tribalism... the idea of them both thinking they own the same colours is something really cool.

I doubt that we’ll ever see a full time return to the Prison Bars but they’ll definitely be part of our AFL kit mix in the future. There are rumours that it could even start this season.

As for Collingwood, well, if we only wear the PBs against other teams then it doesn’t really concern them tbh.

 

[GreyCrow]

Any rate, this will further hasten the death of the SANFL. Be careful what you wish for.

I think if not death then some serious downgrading of the life support.

As an oldie I do have concerns over the dismantling of the SANFL but the reality is I have had 25+ years to see this day coming. I will die off as well and there will be generations of fans who only know AFL and all it brings. Meanwhile South Adelaide will be fighting Hackham Hawks for numbers on a Saturday

 

[Papa G]

I think if not death then some serious downgrading of the life support.

As an oldie I do have concerns over the dismantling of the SANFL but the reality is I have had 25+ years to see this day coming. I will die off as well and there will be generations of fans who only know AFL and all it brings. Meanwhile South Adelaide will be fighting Hackham Hawks for numbers on a Saturday

Too many SANFL clubs still think it’s 1985. They need to focus on being Community clubs, rather than just football clubs. Way too few people give a crap about the SANFL anymore, they need to run it like a country football club and bring in the locals, join up with Cricket/netball/basketball whatever and make it a truly community club, everybody welcome. The diehards are dying off. There is no one to replace them.

 

[Chuckie357]

Port Adelaide agreed as a condition of obtaining a licence not to have a jumper that clashed with an existing team. I'm not sure why the debate contunues. As for being their traditional jumper - I think they should go back to the rather fetching majenta number which was one of their other jumpers they wore in another competition in another century.

Meanwhile protecting Collingwood's branding and fighting the fight to retain the jumper integrity is one of the few things I still supprt Eddie on and he doesn;t have amandate to do otherwise.

Do you know who port Adelaide are? They think because they have had amazing success in a completely different completion that the entire afl world owes them something and everything. Force them to have a plain black guernsey with the China flag on it seeing as that is heir main priority

 

[Silent Alarm]

Too many SANFL clubs still think it’s 1985. They need to focus on being Community clubs, rather than just football clubs. Way too few people give a crap about the SANFL anymore, they need to run it like a country football club and bring in the locals, join up with Cricket/netball/basketball whatever and make it a truly community club, everybody welcome. The diehards are dying off. There is no one to replace them.

I would go down to way more Souths games if the bar was welcoming and it was $5 a can or something with more twilight fixtures. Decent way to start off a Saturday. Instead the vibe is very floggo and 'how many games have you played mate?' at most state league clubs it seems.

 

[Chuckie357]

The article says they can't afford 3 clubs so the side won't exist in the sanfl, which is the bigger tragedy.

In the reserves they can wear what they like, but Collingwood were right to put stipulations on 2 of their biggest brands, the 'black and white stripes' and the 'magpies' moniker. I would hope Richmond would demand the same if Claremont or Glenelg joined.

Perhaps they should donate the club license back to the sanfl, would be a travesty to lose the oldest, most successful and most hated club for some in the best state level league in the country. Love them or hate them, they ARE the sanfl. Bring back port magpies

 

[Storm20]

Believe me I get what you're trying to say. Now that the Crows have been paying a large sum of money to play their reserves in the SANFL, the League has become used to it and suddenly removing that income would be a worry for the bean counters. I am incredibly passionate about the SANFL and I am sure there is a place for it in the footy pyramid. What that is I am not exactly sure, but I wish the AFL would work with the various State Leagues to develop a whole of footy plan with clearly defined roles and responsibilities for the various tiers and clubs that play the game. Sometimes it seems as though the AFLonly focuses on itself and see leagues like the SANFL as competitors to be crushed rather than a valuable part of the game that can be harnessed for the greater good if the intention to work together could be fostered. Surely there is a sustainable position for the various State Leagues in our game? Now that the AFL has set itself up as the Governing body of our game it is up to them to think about the greater good and the future of the game to be handed down to our children rather than just focusing on the current FY numbers.

I've always thought that there will be the SANFL in some aspect, but gone are the days of the previous generation, or the SANFL hey-day. I'm 28, but unfortunately there is just a massive disconnect between my generation and closely following an SANFL club. Personally I would like to see the SANFL become the top tier of local metro football in a 12 team competition (8 SANFL and top 4 Adelaide FL) for example. This gives a true pyramid structure where a local team could eventually compete against the state's best. It could however potentially dilute the quality of players and not really be a "top flight" as it is now, but some Division 1 & 2 clubs almost have the potential to compete with SANFL clubs in an off field sense.

 

[Still Crowing]

I've always thought that there will be the SANFL in some aspect, but gone are the days of the previous generation, or the SANFL hey-day. I'm 28, but unfortunately there is just a massive disconnect between my generation and closely following an SANFL club. Personally I would like to see the SANFL become the top tier of local metro football in a 12 team competition (8 SANFL and top 4 Adelaide FL) for example. This gives a true pyramid structure where a local team could eventually compete against the state's best. It could however potentially dilute the quality of players and not really be a "top flight" as it is now, but some Division 1 & 2 clubs almost have the potential to compete with SANFL clubs in an off field sense.

That's an interesting idea. At first glance I like it. would ex-SANFL clubs still have the responsibility of developing regional areas?

 

[Fizzler]

Do you know who port Adelaide are? They think because they have had amazing success in a completely different completion that the entire afl world owes them something and everything. Force them to have a plain black guernsey with the China flag on it seeing as that is heir main priority

Maybe we are owed something because of the s**t we faced entering this league and even when we were in it all the way from 1990 to the One Club merger that almost completely killed us off.

 

[Timewaster]

I've always thought that there will be the SANFL in some aspect, but gone are the days of the previous generation, or the SANFL hey-day. I'm 28, but unfortunately there is just a massive disconnect between my generation and closely following an SANFL club. Personally I would like to see the SANFL become the top tier of local metro football in a 12 team competition (8 SANFL and top 4 Adelaide FL) for example. This gives a true pyramid structure where a local team could eventually compete against the state's best. It could however potentially dilute the quality of players and not really be a "top flight" as it is now, but some Division 1 & 2 clubs almost have the potential to compete with SANFL clubs in an off field sense.

This is a really good idea. The gulf between the former State leagues (including the now-VFL) and the top ammo clubs has really been eroded. Now that there's a gulf between the AFL and everyone else we could look at a promotion/relegation setup, and maybe interstate finals between the lower leagues. The AFL can manage travel costs, and it'd create an interesting path for amateur footballers who are not AFL standard.

The AFL is custodian of the lower leagues, and a healthy set of 2nd tier comps is really achievable in this era of cheap flights.

 

[Dank Academy]

That's an interesting idea. At first glance I like it. would ex-SANFL clubs still have the responsibility of developing regional areas?

For the SANFL to survive I think that the ‘ex-SANFL’ clubs need to be relocated to regional areas and/or new teams added. There would be way more ‘buy in’ for a region like Whyalla playing Mt Gambier than the current pseudo ‘state league’ which is really just a glorified metro league. Make it a Friday night league and you wouldn’t be interrupting local competitions.

 

[Prison bar Pete]

In an AFL reserves competition the Port Adelaide prison bars/wharf pylons and Collingwood stripes can co-exist, and never the twain need meet. Just have adequate (white) clash jumpers when they compete.

 

[TY24]

Maybe we are owed something because of the s**t we faced entering this league and even when we were in it all the way from 1990 to the One Club merger that almost completely killed us off.

You aren’t owed anything, West Coast arguably had the hardest time entering the league out of any club and we don’t think the league owes us anything, we’ve dealt with it and moved on.


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[Fizzler]

You aren’t owed anything, West Coast arguably had the hardest time entering the league out of any club and we don’t think the league owes us anything, we’ve dealt with it and moved on.


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West Coast had it real tough entering the league and in the league, but I still think we should at least be allowed to wear the PB's in the reserves regardless.

 

[TY24]

West Coast had it real tough entering the league and in the league, but I still think we should at least be allowed to wear the PB's in the reserves regardless.

I appreciate the heritage and historical value that jumper holds to you and your club, it’s the same as our wings guernseys which we’ve been fighting for years to get back.

But I can’t see the AFL allowing it, they’ll want a uniform look across the first and second divisions, plus there’s the Eddie factor as well.

Ironically enough I just saw Eddie on FOX Sports News saying ‘there’s 2 things you don’t mess with at Collingwood: the jumper and the song’.

He won’t back down.


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[El_Scorcho]

Through sustained success and clever manouvering we outgrew the SANFL a long time ago and I wouldn't shed a single tear if we left for a national reserves comp. It's the SANFL's loss, certainly not Ports.

I'd happily see every single SANFL club fold or go into the ammos and have it replaced with a brand new state competition with more population distribution appropriate clubs.

The guernsey thing is such a stupid argument as to be not worth having. We've worn the Prison Bars several times before at AFL level. We'll wear the countless times into the future. Collingwood's sky has not fallen in. Eddie McGuire hosted television shows have grown increasingly terrible and unpopular since his late 90s heyday. The world continues to turn.

 

[Strauchanside]

If the Port Adelaide Magpies were forced to leave the SANFL to join the new AFL reserves competition, couldn't they just called be Port Adelaide? Not the Power, but simply Port Adelaide FC. I'm sure enough people call them Port as an informal nickname anyway?