Opinion Collingwood will return to finals footy in 2023

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HTT

B2B
Sep 13, 2015
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Correct me if I’m wrong but all of those clubs were already a number of years into a rebuild when those new coaches came on. Collingwood made a GF in 2018, a PF in 2019, and a SF in 2020. This is the first year of their rebuild, just 12 months after they cut a bunch of players (inc a top 5 pick from 4 years ago).
True. 2025 is probably a best case scenario.
 

LukeParkerno1

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Sep 23, 2005
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Second pick wouldn't move. You need 2400 points to match a player taken at pick 1, and pick two is worth 2517, so they'd end up with an extra pick in a later round.
There we go. You could literally use your second and a future second to live trade for a mid first too. Honestly trading it last year was the worst option.
 

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Gysberts2Bate

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Jun 12, 2013
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INT - DRAFT NIGHT 2021

“Hey Gold Coast, you guys had a pretty decent season this year. Remember that time you beat us at the MCG?”

“Uh, who’s this?”

“Oh it’s Ned Guy. I’m still Collingwood’s list manager because I didn’t initiate one of the worst trades of all time in 2020. Anyway, we’re wondering if you’d like to have our pick 2 this year in exchange for your 2022 first rounder”.

“Wait…what?”

“Yeah well North have just bid on Nick Daicos at 1 which would force us to use pick 2 on him, and we’d rather match the bid with points from our later picks and get more value out of pick 2.”

“So why are you coming to us?”

“We’ll we figured it’s a good deal for you given you’re on the up and probably not going to finish last next year. At worst you’re getting pick 2 this year for pick 2 next year. We reckon you’ll finish 14th and it’ll be pick 2 for pick 5.”

“Wait, so you’re saying we can have pick 2 right now in exchange for giving you what you think will be pick 5 next year? This almost seems too good to be true!”

“I know, aye? A proper win-win, because even if we take a slight pick downgrade at least we’re still getting a top 5 pick. Can you believe GWS had the nerve to offer us two second rounders for this scenario last year?”

“Hilarious! It’s a joke they even thought you might accept that. Heads would roll. Well consider us in. A great deal for both of our clubs.”

“Yes, I can’t wait to keep my job for many more years after having the foresight to do this after I oopsied on Treloar, Phillips and Stephenson last year. Enjoy pick 2!”

And everyone claps.
 
Apr 19, 2006
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We have the best CHB in the game - D.Moore

You can trade to plug gaps too you know?

We did OK when trading for Roughead, Howe and even Dunn was great for a few years.

IMHO % is a better indicator of a teams standing instead of pure W/L.

Pies were 85.6%, actually better than Hawthorn and within striking distance of all teams that made missed the 8 really.

Whether we move past teams in next couple of years will be more based our stars - Moore, DeGoey, Adams, Grundy, Maynard - who are in their prime and who had poor years in 2021 by their standards.
Its arguable that Moore is the best CHB in the comp. He’s possibly top 5, but outright best, not sure on that.

I wouldn’t be holding up Hawthorn of 2021 as anything to compare against, overall season percentage wise in particular. That side lost to North, Crows and Suns, and we’re the worst 1st quarter side in the comp by a margin over the first 18 rounds.

How are you going to trade to plug gaps, when your cap is still full, and you’re in need of top liners, with no first rounder to offer and a Daicos bid to match?

That list of stars you’ve listed above has some question marks over it too and wouldn’t be the envy of too many sides.
 

staffonly

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Aug 20, 2021
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Our 22 next year is most likely going to be something like:

FB: Maynard, Roughead, Noble
HB: Quaynor, Moore, Howe
C: J Daicos, Pendlebury, Crisp
HF: Sidebottom, Mihocek, W.Kelly
FF: Elliott, Cameron, Henry
R: Grundy, Adams, De Goey
INT: Macrae, Poulter, N.Daicos, Bianco

If we can replace Darcy Cameron with Sam Weideman and get Jack Gunston in to give Will Kelly time to be.. well, constantly injured, then we look better. People forget our forward line can look AMAZING when Jamie Elliott gets the right delivery, and a stable backline of the players listed, injury-free, is top-line.

I'd think it more likely we push to 8th-10th next year before we are forced to actually start rejuvenating the list and drop down again.

Righto tells us what you think you can offer Melbourne for Weiderman.
 

Ralll

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Apr 19, 2009
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Fly worries me.
I have a completely unresearched theory... that softly spoken nice guys don't make good coaches, and nothing to do with the players not respecting them, but the problems the board, coaching staff, supporters and media will throw at them. The coach needs to be thick skinned and able to stand his ground against all those types that will come for him when things are not going well, and I'm not sure Fly is that type of guy. He had strong support at Richmond and he was only the 2nds coach/assistant to Dimma.
Head coach at Collingwood...Good luck Fly, hope I'm wrong.
 

falcons2

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It might sound simple but find one goal more per half-game and stop one goal per half and Collingwood are in the mix. The return of Moore might stop that goal, not sure where the one scored comes from.
New game plan who knows.
 

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Gone Critical

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Correct me if I’m wrong but all of those clubs were already a number of years into a rebuild when those new coaches came on. Collingwood made a GF in 2018, a PF in 2019, and a SF in 2020. This is the first year of their rebuild, just 12 months after they cut a bunch of players (inc a top 5 pick from 4 years ago).
Unfortunately I think this is correct. Also the damage done to the younger part of the list via the 2015-18 drafting makes the rebuild tricky. Currently there are only 2 players from those 4 seasons I would consider best 22 and players I would hope are part of our next tilt. Quaynor and Daicos. Maybe one or two other, Kelly, Browns etc may step up but not looking likely

The kids of 2019-20 show some promise but at this point none are real top line standouts. There are 13 of them so we need some to outperform and become very good. I think if Hine 's choices turn out well we could potentially look at finals 2025. Next 3 years will be a struggle. If those kids dont come on we are in real trouble. The hole in the middle of the list means anyone above the year of Moore, De Goey and Maynard will be 30+ when we next contend so not likely to make a big contribution.

It will take a lot of astute list decisions to get us back up and will need time.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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Unfortunately I think this is correct. Also the damage done to the younger part of the list via the 2015-18 drafting makes the rebuild tricky. Currently there are only 2 players from those 4 seasons I would consider best 22 and players I would hope are part of our next tilt. Quaynor and Daicos. Maybe one or two other, Kelly, Browns etc may step up but not looking likely

The kids of 2019-20 show some promise but at this point none are real top line standouts. There are 13 of them so we need some to outperform and become very good. I think if Hine 's choices turn out well we could potentially look at finals 2025. Next 3 years will be a struggle. If those kids dont come on we are in real trouble. The hole in the middle of the list means anyone above the year of Moore, De Goey and Maynard will be 30+ when we next contend so not likely to make a big contribution.

It will take a lot of astute list decisions to get us back up and will need time.
Yep. It’s why it took us so long to get to where we are from 2012/13/14 - we had no quality on the list from 2007-2011 to babysit those draftees. Compare that to the Dogs who made a GF in 2016 - they actually were at the bottom of the ladder with us from 2012-14 and topped up in the same period, but they had a few pretty decent senior players from that 2007-11 period to guide the younger players.

Collingwood will hit the draft hard in the next few years, but unfortunately it’ll be quite a few years before you have a substantial number of players around that 22-26yo peak age because of a lack of quality draftees retained (or even taken at all) between 2015 and 2019. I actually reckon you should do a bit of what we did - trade a few second rounders for players like Vince, Cross, Melksham, Hibberd…and even Chris Dawes for a bit of leadership and just to have some senior bodies around.
 

Gone Critical

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Yep. It’s why it took us so long to get to where we are from 2012/13/14 - we had no quality on the list from 2007-2011 to babysit those draftees. Compare that to the Dogs who made a GF in 2016 - they actually were at the bottom of the ladder with us from 2012-14 and topped up in the same period, but they had a few pretty decent senior players from that 2007-11 period to guide the younger players.

Collingwood will hit the draft hard in the next few years, but unfortunately it’ll be quite a few years before you have a substantial number of players around that 22-26yo peak age because of a lack of quality draftees retained (or even taken at all) between 2015 and 2019. I actually reckon you should do a bit of what we did - trade a few second rounders for players like Vince, Cross, Melksham, Hibberd…and even Chris Dawes for a bit of leadership and just to have some senior bodies around.
I think we need to get a few in the 21-24 age group in, Lipinski a good start, to get some balnce into the list. Biggest thing for now is to hang onto 22 1st rounder and hope a good KPF is available. Biggest list need. At the time of last years draft I was very unhappy we traded out out 21 1st, wise course was to hold onto it and expect to convert it into another good pick in '22. Now it has turned into pick 2 all the worse.
 

Gysberts2Bate

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I think we need to get a few in the 21-24 age group in, Lipinski a good start, to get some balnce into the list. Biggest thing for now is to hang onto 22 1st rounder and hope a good KPF is available. Biggest list need. At the time of last years draft I was very unhappy we traded out out 21 1st, wise course was to hold onto it and expect to convert it into another good pick in '22. Now it has turned into pick 2 all the worse.
Hopefully Lipinski can come in and have an impact like Dom Tyson did for us.
 

CaptainCaveman

Cancelled
Sep 12, 2021
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Its arguable that Moore is the best CHB in the comp. He’s possibly top 5, but outright best, not sure on that.

I wouldn’t be holding up Hawthorn of 2021 as anything to compare against, overall season percentage wise in particular. That side lost to North, Crows and Suns, and we’re the worst 1st quarter side in the comp by a margin over the first 18 rounds.

How are you going to trade to plug gaps, when your cap is still full, and you’re in need of top liners, with no first rounder to offer and a Daicos bid to match?

That list of stars you’ve listed above has some question marks over it too and wouldn’t be the envy of too many sides.
Is our cap full?
 

Rich01

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Fly worries me.
I have a completely unresearched theory... that softly spoken nice guys don't make good coaches, and nothing to do with the players not respecting them, but the problems the board, coaching staff, supporters and media will throw at them. The coach needs to be thick skinned and able to stand his ground against all those types that will come for him when things are not going well, and I'm not sure Fly is that type of guy. He had strong support at Richmond and he was only the 2nds coach/assistant to Dimma.
Head coach at Collingwood...Good luck Fly, hope I'm wrong.
Reckon he will be very good for them. Bolton and Leppa as key assistants will help him no end. Collingwood nailed the coaching team. Now just for some stability at board level.
 

CaptainCaveman

Cancelled
Sep 12, 2021
12
2
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Collingwood
Yep. It’s why it took us so long to get to where we are from 2012/13/14 - we had no quality on the list from 2007-2011 to babysit those draftees. Compare that to the Dogs who made a GF in 2016 - they actually were at the bottom of the ladder with us from 2012-14 and topped up in the same period, but they had a few pretty decent senior players from that 2007-11 period to guide the younger players.

Collingwood will hit the draft hard in the next few years, but unfortunately it’ll be quite a few years before you have a substantial number of players around that 22-26yo peak age because of a lack of quality draftees retained (or even taken at all) between 2015 and 2019. I actually reckon you should do a bit of what we did - trade a few second rounders for players like Vince, Cross, Melksham, Hibberd…and even Chris Dawes for a bit of leadership and just to have some senior bodies around.
If you speak to Paul Roos and Jackson and they will tell you the problem with Melbourne was the actual club itself. They couldn’t believe how ordinary the club was throughout with no direction and terrible standards. It was one of the reasons they recruited that midfielder from the Doggies (can’t remember his name but he joined the demons when he was in his 30s). Purely because he was considered an excellent, hard trainer. They needed to set the standard.

The Pies are not like that. The club will play finals again within 3 years. Because that’s just what Collingwood does.
 
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CaptainCaveman

Cancelled
Sep 12, 2021
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2
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It’s not empty, that’s for sure.

Cox gone ($550k saving). Pendles down from $750k to $500k. Retirements in Mayne and Greenwood. Pies apparently loaded up a good portion of Treloar’s contract this year.
Maynard’s final year (2022) is backended and Sidebottom and that will save more $$.
6 kids brought in last draft. We will be in a strong position end of 2022 to target players. 2022 but most likely 2023 is when we would want to use our cap. We’ll get arguably one of the best kids in the draft this year and likely the same next year.

If the situation was that dire, how else were they going to pickup Merrett who they targeted end of end of 2020?

Will be playing finals in 3 years. Probably seriously contend in 5.
 

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