Resource Collingwood's 2015 injury situation

[Cousin of Daicos]

Probably doesn't make much difference today, but always remember this passage from Bucks' book for some reason:

Graham Wright (Collingwood 1988-98: 201 games; runner-up in 1990 Brownlow Medal): There was a fair bit of talk floating around that Nathan was going to come to Collingwood and as a playing group we knew a couple of us would have to go. "Ned" (Craig Kelly) and I just let him know we weren't happy about him wanting to come to Collingwood. He actually didn't say much back. In hindsight, it probably wasn't the smartest thing for us to do. Not long after that game, I made an off-the-cuff remark to Gubby Allan that if Buckley came to Collingwood, I would leave.

Graeme "Gubby" Allan: I told Wrighty: "You'll be leaving then, son."

Yeah that's interesting but means nothing in terms of personalisities. Ned and Bucks are best mates.

 

[Anzacday]

Yeah that's interesting but means nothing in terms of personalisities. Ned and Bucks are best mates.

Great point Spesh.
Bucks obviously won him over

 

[Gone Critical]

Broomhead apparently not training with the main group. Anyone know why?

 

[Lefthanded]

Broomhead apparently not training with the main group. Anyone know why?

I think there's been a number of questions about Broomy so it would be good to know the answer. I was thinking we need a thread on players similar to this on contract status: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/players-contract-status-2015.1075581/

Would be a good source of info on players, maybe having multiple links for each player to cover different time periods during the year. I would envisage it covering things like time trial performances and injuries so we know where the guys are at eg no use thinking Broomy will have breakout year if he's missed half of preseason (just an example, I don't know if he has or hasn't), ditto Abbott getting a senior game if his ankle issue is medium to long term.

If this suggestion gets enough likes I could give it a go.

 

[Gone Critical]

I think there's been a number of questions about Broomy so it would be good to know the answer. I was thinking we need a thread on players similar to this on contract status: http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/players-contract-status-2015.1075581/

Would be a good source of info on players, maybe having multiple links for each player to cover different time periods during the year. I would envisage it covering things like time trial performances and injuries so we know where the guys are at eg no use thinking Broomy will have breakout year if he's missed half of preseason (just an example, I don't know if he has or hasn't), ditto Abbott getting a senior game if his ankle issue is medium to long term.

If this suggestion gets enough likes I could give it a go.

I like itlike it

 

[Lefthanded]

I like itlike it

thanks, I was bored (no footy) so thought what the heck, http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/collingwood-players-2015-info.1086015/

Now just need help finding news on all the players .....

 

[DrDavoren]

It seems there is more news coming out regarding injuries this year, maybe Balme influence. Hope the transparency continues and estimated returns are closer to the mark.

 

[Trickster]

Hawthorn are doing a heck of a lot right in recent times, they're a superbly run club and they know how to win Grand Finals when they get there, even when they aren't expected to win them.

I wouldn't say their drafting has been all that special of late, it's their ability to snare proven players from other clubs that gives them an edge. I don't know if that is down to Wright as much as it is that players simply want to play for them, and other clubs seem happy to "help them out" at times. Nobody seems too willing to do us any favours (probably Carlton and Essendon suffer from this as well) yet Hawthorn, when they desperately needed a key defender after the 2012 GF loss, had the Bulldogs hand them (the still contracted) Lake. That worked out very nicely for them. When Max Bailey retired at the end of 2013 and they couldn't get Longer, the Saints "handed" them McEvoy. Twelve months later, another premiership.

It's easy to get carried away and be envious of what they're doing, yet in a very recent 20 season period (1992-2011) Hawthorn made just 1 Grand Final, and for a fair bit of that time they were just a battler. Port Adelaide look set for a very good run over the next few years, no doubt we'll hear about how brilliantly run they are (it's pretty much already started), yet only a handful of years back they were an absolute basket case on and off the field.

Isaac Smith at 20 was good as was Brad Hill at 33. To pick up these types of guys when they don't get early picks is outrageous. I think they do everything really well. They've also had the courage to trade out first round picks for what they've identified as missing links to a flag. They've had some misses, but the key thing I think which not enough give them credit for is their leadership. Hodge is a gun and ensures everyone follows him.

 

[Trickster]

Thank goodness we didn't get Mitch Clark. He wouldn't get on the park with us. That could have been a dodged bullet though he still may prove me wrong. you don't wish for him to be injured particularly given his mental health issues, but geez if he was injured at Collingwood, he wouldn't want to be reading BF to make him feel better.

 

[35Daicos]

Isaac Smith at 20 was good as was Brad Hill at 33. To pick up these types of guys when they don't get early picks is outrageous. I think they do everything really well. They've also had the courage to trade out first round picks for what they've identified as missing links to a flag. They've had some misses, but the key thing I think which not enough give them credit for is their leadership. Hodge is a gun and ensures everyone follows him.

Looking at their drafting from recent years, Smith and Hill certainly were good pickups. Stratton and Puopolo with lower picks have done well, and Rookie Draft types like Breust and Suckling have done extremely well. I don't see a lot of other real winners there. It's not the "secret to their success."

They've been absolutely brilliant at picking up just the player they needed from other clubs. They had 7 players in both their last 2 premiership sides who had previously played with another club. We had 3 in 2010, Geelong 1 in 2011. They are even now still cashing in on shoving Trent Croad (very much against his will) off to Fremantle, and losing McPharlin to the same club way back in 2001, picking up Hodge and Mitchell in the draft thanks to that deal. In 2004, thanks (partly) to having a team so ordinary it qualified for a Priority Pick, they got Roughead (2), Franklin (5) and Lewis (7).

They certainly do have some misses, as you've suggested. What happened with Josh P. Kennedy I'm not even sure, but to lose someone with his family history at the club to a rival, and see him turn into one of the competition's best must still pain Hawks supporters. McGlynn has also done well at the same club. In 2005 they picked X. Ellis at 3, we got Pendlebury at 5, they then took Beau Dowler at 6. The next year they snared Mitch Thorp at 6 - Joel Selwood was pick 7. This sort of stuff-up can be found with every club, including ours, of course.

I'd have thought most sensible fans do give them credit for their leadership. Hodge is a very special player, those who can lift themselves to another level when it really counts are rare indeed, while Mitchell is still a leader who is too old, short, slow and yet bloody brilliant.

I said this in the post you quoted "It's easy to get carried away and be envious of what they're doing, yet in a very recent 20 season period (1992-2011) Hawthorn made just 1 Grand Final, and for a fair bit of that time they were just a battler." They're going very nicely at the moment, but they have had plenty of nothing years as all clubs have had, and pretty soon their run should be over. They might have one more big year in them, then with the likes of Burgoyne, Hale, Hodge, Lake and Mitchell all likely to be gone at around about the same time, they logically should drop away. Since I get to watch the GF every year with my lifelong best mate, who happens to be a Hawthorn supporter, I really hope their run is all but over. Because I'm bloody sick of it!

Finally, sorry if this is a bit long winded. Drinking and posting is a dangerous mix, but I really enjoy both!

 

[PTpie]

I'd like to see a similar approach in getting Burgess from Port. Offer double his current salary and if we have to pay the luxury tax, so be it. It's more important that we get our players fit and injury free rather than squirrelling away the money given making profits should be secondary. Same as Saunders from North given they're injury list. If it means with these 2 we get 18 games from Reid this year and a fit squad, it pays for itself.

Of course they may have attempted this and we don't know, but we'd most likely have heard something. Or they are happy with our current set-up and believe it will be sorted in time. I just hope at the end of the year we're not talking about a decimated injury list and not running out games again.

Burgess left a higher paying role in the EPL as Liverpool's Head of Conditioning to go back to port Adelaide (which he had worked for previously) for lifestyle and family. He will never work for a different AFL club.

There is no reason we can't start approaching some other elite sporting organisations OS for a consultant or whatever though. Soccer has some of the best athletes in the world. Some players compete in over 150 games every year. That is a game every 2.3 days - It craps on our guys 30 odd games a year and they rarely are injured.

Personally I think we need an outside influence (think B Reid to Germany) with regards to our fitness and conditioning. I believe the people in the job are doing the best they know how, but some new ideas and a different approach may make all the difference - Ask Port Adelaide fans and players.

 

[Lefthanded]

I agree it's not that easy. As much as I'm potting Carlton, credit to them, they identified Graham Wright as an elite recruiter and went gung-ho to get him which they nearly did knowing this is an area they've been deficient in.

I'd like to see a similar approach in getting Burgess from Port. Offer double his current salary and if we have to pay the luxury tax, so be it. It's more important that we get our players fit and injury free rather than squirrelling away the money given making profits should be secondary. Same as Saunders from North given they're injury list. If it means with these 2 we get 18 games from Reid this year and a fit squad, it pays for itself.

Of course they may have attempted this and we don't know, but we'd most likely have heard something. Or they are happy with our current set-up and believe it will be sorted in time. I just hope at the end of the year we're not talking about a decimated injury list and not running out games again.

Trickster - I like your passion and as much as I want the best at the Pies I think we need to be smart about how we do that. To his credit I think Balme will bring a lot of that (& credit to Pies for getting him). I think it a lot cheaper to have reasonable professionals in the jobs that can learn from consultants (eg during the review) & hopefully from having gone with Reid to Germany the doctor (or chaperone) from Pies hopefully learnt some key points. If we must learn more about how Port or North are doing things better than us than (particularly in light of PTpie's post) it might be more economical to identify a key assistant that we can poach much cheaper but who will have learnt from Burgess or Saunders.

Closing the gap /fixing the injury problems, probably need to be twofold - identifying where we are behind other AFL clubs in our programs but also having the links to soccer, basketball, athletics, NFL or wherever to be able to get ahead of the curve (be proactive not reactive).

Burgess left a higher paying role in the EPL as Liverpool's Head of Conditioning to go back to port Adelaide (which he had worked for previously) for lifestyle and family. He will never work for a different AFL club.

There is no reason we can't start approaching some other elite sporting organisations OS for a consultant or whatever though. Soccer has some of the best athletes in the world. Some players compete in over 150 games every year. That is a game every 2.3 days - It craps on our guys 30 odd games a year and they rarely are injured.

Personally I think we need an outside influence (think B Reid to Germany) with regards to our fitness and conditioning. I believe the people in the job are doing the best they know how, but some new ideas and a different approach may make all the difference - Ask Port Adelaide fans and players.

 

[Lefthanded]

Broomhead apparently not training with the main group. Anyone know why?

Found some info on Broomy posted here http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/collingwood-players-2015-info.1086015/

 

[Trickster]

Looking at their drafting from recent years, Smith and Hill certainly were good pickups. Stratton and Puopolo with lower picks have done well, and Rookie Draft types like Breust and Suckling have done extremely well. I don't see a lot of other real winners there. It's not the "secret to their success."

They've been absolutely brilliant at picking up just the player they needed from other clubs. They had 7 players in both their last 2 premiership sides who had previously played with another club. We had 3 in 2010, Geelong 1 in 2011. They are even now still cashing in on shoving Trent Croad (very much against his will) off to Fremantle, and losing McPharlin to the same club way back in 2001, picking up Hodge and Mitchell in the draft thanks to that deal. In 2004, thanks (partly) to having a team so ordinary it qualified for a Priority Pick, they got Roughead (2), Franklin (5) and Lewis (7).

They certainly do have some misses, as you've suggested. What happened with Josh P. Kennedy I'm not even sure, but to lose someone with his family history at the club to a rival, and see him turn into one of the competition's best must still pain Hawks supporters. McGlynn has also done well at the same club. In 2005 they picked X. Ellis at 3, we got Pendlebury at 5, they then took Beau Dowler at 6. The next year they snared Mitch Thorp at 6 - Joel Selwood was pick 7. This sort of stuff-up can be found with every club, including ours, of course.

I'd have thought most sensible fans do give them credit for their leadership. Hodge is a very special player, those who can lift themselves to another level when it really counts are rare indeed, while Mitchell is still a leader who is too old, short, slow and yet bloody brilliant.

I said this in the post you quoted "It's easy to get carried away and be envious of what they're doing, yet in a very recent 20 season period (1992-2011) Hawthorn made just 1 Grand Final, and for a fair bit of that time they were just a battler." They're going very nicely at the moment, but they have had plenty of nothing years as all clubs have had, and pretty soon their run should be over. They might have one more big year in them, then with the likes of Burgoyne, Hale, Hodge, Lake and Mitchell all likely to be gone at around about the same time, they logically should drop away. Since I get to watch the GF every year with my lifelong best mate, who happens to be a Hawthorn supporter, I really hope their run is all but over. Because I'm bloody sick of it!

Finally, sorry if this is a bit long winded. Drinking and posting is a dangerous mix, but I really enjoy both!

Not at all, it's great to have a thoughtful discussion. And it's a well constructed post too particularly when you've had a couple .

I will have to disagree or at least comment on a couple of points though...

You mention, they only won 1 flag in 20 years, but the timing is quite selective you've used as they won 8 in the previous 20, so they were always going to have a lull given the exodus of champions, drafts constraints, salary caps etc.

The period I'm most interested in is since they won the flag in 08. So all those draft misses with Dowler, Muston etc is before their second coming. And yes they traded out guys like Kemnedy and McGlynn but have been able to cover them comfortably and seem to be able to attract players they want. Since 08, they have been brilliant in almost all facets. They lost the prelim in 11' the GF in 12 and rather than fall away, they've had the resolve to win the next 2 flags which the last one included losing a freak forward to the second best team and then rolling them by 10 goals.

I too, like you, am sick of it, but I'm also bloody envious because we struggle to win 2 flags in 50-odd years and don't make hay while the sun shines. They have the culture of winning Grand Finals which we don't. I'm Hoping that we're building to more sustainable success again.

 

[Trickster]

Burgess left a higher paying role in the EPL as Liverpool's Head of Conditioning to go back to port Adelaide (which he had worked for previously) for lifestyle and family. He will never work for a different AFL club.

There is no reason we can't start approaching some other elite sporting organisations OS for a consultant or whatever though. Soccer has some of the best athletes in the world. Some players compete in over 150 games every year. That is a game every 2.3 days - It craps on our guys 30 odd games a year and they rarely are injured.

Personally I think we need an outside influence (think B Reid to Germany) with regards to our fitness and conditioning. I believe the people in the job are doing the best they know how, but some new ideas and a different approach may make all the difference - Ask Port Adelaide fans and players.

Fair points you make. Burgess may not work for another club, but I can also see the scum enticing someone like this to their club. I'd rather be that club.

Absolutely agree, targeting elite professionals in their fields is what I'd want my club to be doing. And I was thrilled they sent Ben Reid over though Geelong had sent Rooke in 2007 or 2008, so if anything I thought we could have done it when he did his hammy agst Brisbane. Maybe this was the Balme influence.

Trickster - I like your passion and as much as I want the best at the Pies I think we need to be smart about how we do that. To his credit I think Balme will bring a lot of that (& credit to Pies for getting him). I think it a lot cheaper to have reasonable professionals in the jobs that can learn from consultants (eg during the review) & hopefully from having gone with Reid to Germany the doctor (or chaperone) from Pies hopefully learnt some key points. If we must learn more about how Port or North are doing things better than us than (particularly in light of PTpie's post) it might be more economical to identify a key assistant that we can poach much cheaper but who will have learnt from Burgess or Saunders.

Closing the gap /fixing the injury problems, probably need to be twofold - identifying where we are behind other AFL clubs in our programs but also having the links to soccer, basketball, athletics, NFL or wherever to be able to get ahead of the curve (be proactive not reactive).

Don't get me wrong, I'm not suggesting we just throw money down the drain because we have it, but we're clearly not leading in a number of areas and this is what I'd love to see fixed sooner than later.

If we can get assistants who are as good, then great, but invariably I'd feel better if we've got the guy who's responsible for Ports fitness, or NMs injury list in those examples. Where they come from doesn't worry me as long as they can translate their experience into our unique game.

I'll get off my soapbox as I've ranted enough on this, but I hate seeing my team being mediocre, and probably worst of all, I'd hate to think that it's acceptable particularly given out of all clubs, we're the ones who have the money to be able to do something about it.