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Ozzie

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Didn't Paul Seedsman leave them because of his hairstyle and the crap he copped over it repeatly?
 

Sanders

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Nov 1, 2012
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oh come now, you’re one of the few people here smart enough to understand the meaning of low status and high status opinions

people choose high status opinions, despite the fact they are often wrong to feel good about themselves and to let others know they are a high status thinker

for example, how many people now believe Adam Goodes was forced from the game by racism? And not the simple truth that after 372 games and the age of 35, he was well into, and probably past usual retirement age?

how many people remember he was virtually public enemy no.1 in the game only 2 weeks before his Damascene moment in the crowd? That he was being called out in the media for being a dirty player who was happier risking injury to opposition players rather than put his head over the ball? He staged for free kicks, and generally behaving like a dick on the field

2 weeks later that’s all forgotten, and he played the game like a saint, such that only racists could possibly think negative thoughts about him.

it’s a textbook case of high and low status opinion.

I liked this graphic


38B3C660-8188-42A6-8C24-C556C09DA294.png


So let's order them by frequency:
-High-status opinions that are correct: rare
-Low-status opinions that are incorrect: quite common
-Low-status opinions that are correct: very common
-High-status opinions that are incorrect: ubiquitous

That’s how.

Zaha rightly picked up on people using him to reinforce high status without actually even wanting anything to change. Virtue signalling on steroids
 
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Southerntakeover

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oh come now, you’re one of the few people here smart enough to understand the meaning of low status and high status opinions

people choose high status opinions, despite the fact they are often wrong to feel good about themselves and to let others know they are a high status thinker

for example, how many people now believe Adam Goodes was forced from the game by racism? And not the simple truth that after 372 games and the age of 35, he was well into, and probably past usual retirement age?

how many people remember he was virtually public enemy no.1 in the game only 2 weeks before his Damascene moment in the crowd? That he was being called out in the media for being a dirty player who was happier risking injury to opposition players rather than put his head over the ball? He stayed for free kicks, and generally behaving like a dick on the field

2 weeks later that’s all forgotten, and he played the game like a saint, such that only racists could possibly think negative thoughts about him.

it’s a textbook case of high and low status opinion.

I liked this graphic


View attachment 1056653

So let's order them by frequency:
-High-status opinions that are correct: rare
-Low-status opinions that are incorrect: quite common
-Low-status opinions that are correct: very common
-High-status opinions that are incorrect: ubiquitous

That’s how.

Zaha rightly picked up on people using him to reinforce high status without actually even wanting anything to change. Virtue signalling on steroids
Is that chart a reasonable indication of your views, or just demonstrative of the concept? I'd never pegged you for a reactionary culture warrior.

"Zaha rightly picked up on people using him to reinforce high status without actually even wanting anything to change. Virtue signalling on steroids".

I think that's right, but you're drawing the wrong conclusion. The revelation is of a system that manages to absorb into its hegemony attempts to resist against it by commodifying them, and that being required to labour as the result of that commodification is alienating / demeaning.

I don't think the correct analysis, or his intention, is that the attempts to resist themselves are inherently the territory of flogs. I agree with your critique of 'virtue signalling' in the absence of any intention to genuinely support meaningful change though.
 
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Sanders

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Is that chart a reasonable indication of your views, or just demonstrative of the concept? I'd never pegged you for a reactionary culture warrior.

"Zaha rightly picked up on people using him to reinforce high status without actually even wanting anything to change. Virtue signalling on steroids".

I think that's right, but you're drawing the wrong conclusion. The revelation is of a system that manages to absorb into its hegemony attempts to resist against it by commodifying them, and that being required to labour as the result of that commodification is alienating / demeaning.

I don't think the correct analysis, or his intention, is that the attempts to resist themselves are inherently the territory of flogs. I agree with your critique of 'virtue signalling' in the absence of any intention to genuinely support meaningful change though.
doing nothing to change, whilst proclaiming the need to change is a very, very close to agitating for no change

it is the smokescreen, the illusion of change to hide indifference behind.

reducing things down to crayon binaries is exactly the same thing. I support a high status view, me clever. Just don’t ask me to bring about or even want the change that high status view implies
 

Sanders

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People calling Adam Goodes a saint, a hero without even contemplating alternative views, just racism, are indifferent to the issues surrounding him and First Nation people

utterly, repulsively indifferent
 

THE SALT

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Good interview with Lumumba here. He does state that he feels the systemic racism was an issue created by the club's leaders. He says here that instances of racist comments from other players were merely a symptom of a culture of systemic racism coming from club leadership.

"It's strange that young players — who are not responsible for the administration and culture of the club — have issued an unconditional statement acknowledging harm when the management and leadership of the club have yet to do so," Lumumba tweeted.

"'All staff and players' surely includes black players and staff, as well as players and staff of colour. Why should they be apologising for racism?"

"Unfortunately, this feels like the club using the genuine sentiment of some players and staff as a tool for damage control. This explains the lukewarm public response to the letter," he said.



Lumumbas a goose. Ignore his bullshit story. It constantly changes.
 

THE SALT

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Demetriou has some interesting views here

obviously he’s right in that the report itself is not of high quality, too woolly and lacking any real detail and substance

but he’s wrong to question it’s legitimacy, it’s a first step.

it is the beginning of a much wider, league wide process of understanding, reflection and remediation

better, more substantive investigations and analysis will follow, but those reports will need an ice breaker

the fact of the matter is that the detail and quality of the report is not what matters. What matters is that the report exists, was commissioned and lays the path for bigger change.

it is the start of the beginning, not the end or even the middle


Yeah ive been trying to explain its a Quality Assurance Compliance measure. By implenting quality steps at each stage, the end result should be a quality product. Most professional businesses go through an ISO certification. It minimises risk.
 

Mr_Moogle

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Lumumbas a goose. Ignore his bullshit story. It constantly changes.
Those quotes weren't particularly controversial though. He's basically just him saying that accountability needs to happen at administration level. It would appear there are people within the CFC that have similar views given Eddie has just resigned.
 

Sanders

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Those quotes weren't particularly controversial though. He's basically just him saying that accountability needs to happen at administration level. It would appear there are people within the CFC that have similar views given Eddie has just resigned.
if today’s article in the Age is true, it seems to imply one of the goals from commissioning the report was to leverage Eddie out

which I totally believe, not on the basis of Eddie good or bad, bad that’s how these things work often. When one part of the board gets a foothold, this is one of the sorts of mechanisms for playing the long game
 

CrowsB4hoes

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if today’s article in the Age is true, it seems to imply one of the goals from commissioning the report was to leverage Eddie out

which I totally believe, not on the basis of Eddie good or bad, bad that’s how these things work often. When one part of the board gets a foothold, this is one of the sorts of mechanisms for playing the long game
You never commission an external report unless you know for certain what the findings will be.
 

mistylake

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Demetriou has some interesting views here

obviously he’s right in that the report itself is not of high quality, too woolly and lacking any real detail and substance

but he’s wrong to question it’s legitimacy, it’s a first step.

it is the beginning of a much wider, league wide process of understanding, reflection and remediation

better, more substantive investigations and analysis will follow, but those reports will need an ice breaker

the fact of the matter is that the detail and quality of the report is not what matters. What matters is that the report exists, was commissioned and lays the path for bigger change.

it is the start of the beginning, not the end or even the middle

Lol now Demetriou is just a corrupt f***ing flog
 

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BRL121

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if today’s article in the Age is true, it seems to imply one of the goals from commissioning the report was to leverage Eddie out

which I totally believe, not on the basis of Eddie good or bad, bad that’s how these things work often. When one part of the board gets a foothold, this is one of the sorts of mechanisms for playing the long game
Would it be too much to surmise that Eddie's previously announced intention to retire at the end of the year was a direct result of Collingwood initially receiving the report? Now, of course, that has been preempted by the leak and response. Does anyone know the timing of their report receipt in relation to Eddie's initial announcement?
 

Geoffa32

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What aspects of their culture was deemed racist in the report?

Is it in the locker room, coaches/players etc?
Hiring practices of staff?
Decisions made in the Board Room?


Not defending Eddie, he should have lost positions of importance (including JamTV) after his King Kong comments. That was disgraceful.


Just wondering exactly what aspects of their culture is racist, and why only Eddie has stood down.


Surely "Culture" infers more than one person is responsible.


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Kane McGoodwin

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What aspects of their culture was deemed racist in the report?

Is it in the locker room, coaches/players etc?
Hiring practices of staff?
Decisions made in the Board Room?


Not defending Eddie, he should have lost positions of importance (including JamTV) after his King Kong comments. That was disgraceful.


Just wondering exactly what aspects of their culture is racist, and why only Eddie has stood down.


Surely "Culture" infers more than one person is responsible.


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Indeed, culture is.the organisation not one person, but Eddie is the longest standing Chairman who has considerable influence when this all occurred... as well as having a few racist moments himself.
 

Geoffa32

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Indeed, culture is.the organisation not one person, but Eddie is the longest standing Chairman who has considerable influence when this all occurred... as well as having a few racist moments himself.
I don't disagree at all with him being moved on, should have happened years ago.

He should be made to stand down as Chairman and give up ownership of JamTV. JamTV produces a lot of sports content (all Crocmedia TV shows) and the lack of Indegenous on air talent in the industry is pretty damming IMO. Him effectively controlling the Footy Media is a bigger issue than being President of Collingwood.


I also think the AFL Industry has an issue with Indegenous employment. Aside from direct Indegenous cultural/assistance programs. There are around 200 or so coaches in the system, would there be more than five Indegenous coaches across the 18 clubs?

Not to mention Indegenous employment directly by the AFL, Executive Umpires etc is very much under represented.




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hey shorty

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I don't disagree at all with him being moved on, should have happened years ago.

I also think he should be made to stand down as Chairman and give up ownership of JamTV. JamTV produces a lot of sports content (all Crocmedia TV shows) and the lack of Indegenous on air talent in the industry is pretty damming IMO. Him effectively controlling the Footy Media is a bigger issue than being President of Collingwood.


I also think the AFL Industry has an issue with Indegenous employment. Aside from direct Indegenous cultural/assistance programs. There are around 200 or so coaches in the system, would there be more than five Indegenous coaches across the 18 clubs?

Not to mention Indegenous employment directly by the AFL, Executive Umpires etc is very much under represented.




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It's a similar problem to that of American sports, plenty of work to do in that regard.
 

Geoffa32

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It's a similar problem to that of American sports, plenty of work to do in that regard.
Yep US sport not great. But certainly better than AFL. NFL and NBA ( only sports I watch) do seem to have some Black representation at varying coaching levels.

Off the top of my head, I have not researched this (but hope I am wrong), I can not name one Indegenous assistant/full time development coach.

And the Black community is represented in the US sports media.


Is there any Indegenous "talent" across Crocmedia and JamTV?



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Ozzie

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After reading Eddie owns JamTV and heavily involved in Crocmedia, it stands to reason, why Purple was up in arms about us getting pick 2 for Crouch. Purple would've received a call from Eddie and told to go on the warpath against us. For weeks the Vic. Media railled against how unfair it was that AFC would end up with pick 2.
Then VFL House who Eddie has bullied before (Swans Cola) just one thing he got his way on, began to make noises and deep down we all knew it wasn't going to happen.
Another thing is, I wondered why only ONE team made an offer for Crouch when he was our best player. Along with the fact last year, teams were sniffing around him with big offers GC and a few others. Lions and Daniher what a joke that was. An old Cameron who was played on the wing in the end, gifting 3 first rounders for their lovechild, GWS. The firesale by CFC to shed players but AFC getting told you can't make deals like they did.
The whole industry sickens me but I like watching the games with the sound muted. Forget all the TV shows, along with the circle jerks the talking heads indulge in. The only good bit is he is now gone from CFC and I hope his business interests take beating.
 

Sanders

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You never commission an external report unless you know for certain what the findings will be.
that’s what terms of reference are for. To narrow down the search to precisely and only those things you want looked into. Scope creep is not what is called for

notice how our board specifically excluded the board from the TOR of our external review.
 

Sanders

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Would it be too much to surmise that Eddie's previously announced intention to retire at the end of the year was a direct result of Collingwood initially receiving the report? Now, of course, that has been preempted by the leak and response. Does anyone know the timing of their report receipt in relation to Eddie's initial announcement?
commissioned the report in June 2020 (aspiring chairman Peter Murphy was the driving force behind it)

received the report December 17, 2020

don’t know when Eddie said it was his last year
 

Sanders

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After reading Eddie owns JamTV and heavily involved in Crocmedia, it stands to reason, why Purple was up in arms about us getting pick 2 for Crouch. Purple would've received a call from Eddie and told to go on the warpath against us. For weeks the Vic. Media railled against how unfair it was that AFC would end up with pick 2.
Then VFL House who Eddie has bullied before (Swans Cola) just one thing he got his way on, began to make noises and deep down we all knew it wasn't going to happen.
Another thing is, I wondered why only ONE team made an offer for Crouch when he was our best player. Along with the fact last year, teams were sniffing around him with big offers GC and a few others. Lions and Daniher what a joke that was. An old Cameron who was played on the wing in the end, gifting 3 first rounders for their lovechild, GWS. The firesale by CFC to shed players but AFC getting told you can't make deals like they did.
The whole industry sickens me but I like watching the games with the sound muted. Forget all the TV shows, along with the circle jerks the talking heads indulge in. The only good bit is he is now gone from CFC and I hope his business interests take beating.
one of the reasons were up in arms is the perception that we were tanking.

fair or not, that’s what people had started to think. Trading out senior players, excess blooding of young players etc
 

BRL121

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commissioned the report in June 2020 (aspiring chairman Peter Murphy was the driving force behind it)

received the report December 17, 2020

don’t know when Eddie said it was his last year
It looks like it was Dec 14th, close enough to 17th to raise suspicions, I reckon. ;)
 

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