Toast Collingwood's greatest 25 players (Michael Roberts - HS today)

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Robroy22

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This might be blasphemy but I'd suggest Mick McGuane was a better on-baller than Pendles.
 

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I reckon Bruce Doull was a better FB than Silvagni and he didnt play FB that much, David Dench was also a better FB.

Maybe the current Buckley issues are clouding my judgement but Daicos and Fab Phil should be higher than Buckley IMHO.
Agree on Dench too, and Doull was a FAR FAR FAR better defender than the over rated Silvagni.

Throwing Daicos and Carman into the Buckley debate, yes them I can see in that discussion.
Daicos was sublime and in my view the GREATEST EVER "miracle" or "special" goal kicker - EVER!

Carman was Gary Ablett Snr level in dynamic talent, but even more screws loose.
Ahead of his time. Genius.

Where I have Buckley ahead of both is every year of Buckley was on this elite level high and consistent week on week.

Daicos I peg above Carman on his season after season levels. Carman, wow, but he gets "punished" a bit for his brain fades and he did depart way too soon. But he was our Gary Ablett Snr type, that dynamic tour de force.

(Sometimes I think we are cursed, just can't take a trick with our Carman or Bob Rose as coach, or not getting Quinlan, Lockett... but it is what it is.)

(Nathan the coach to me, irrelevant to Buckley the super star player.)
 

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This might be blasphemy but I'd suggest Mick McGuane was a better on-baller than Pendles.

On this I can't agree. But great discussion.
McGuane was a terrific player, Pendlebury though lives in the elite world of players.
McGuane more an excellent player not living in that pantheon.
 
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Pendlebury higher than Dane Swan is just blatantly wrong.
Great discussion.
Swan super elite player. Whilst I have Pendlebury a tad higher, Swan is actually under rated in the greater football world.

And his running, run run run waddle waddle run run - AND he never complained or argued with umpires. That's an aside but his discipline on field was uber good.
 

Robroy22

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Great discussion.
Swan super elite player. Whilst I have Pendlebury a tad higher, Swan is actually under rated in the greater football world.

And his running, run run run waddle waddle run run - AND he never complained or argued with umpires. That's an aside but his discipline on field was uber good.



And Swanny and Mick both could win you BIG games. When games were on the line, those two always did something.
 
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Great discussion.
Swan super elite player. Whilst I have Pendlebury a tad higher, Swan is actually under rated in the greater football world.

And his running, run run run waddle waddle run run - AND he never complained or argued with umpires. That's an aside but his discipline on field was uber good.
Swans scoreboard hurt is where the edge is found, IMO.

Kicked 20 or more goals on SIX occasions, while Pendlebury, to this point, has only done that twice.
 

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Swans scoreboard hurt is where the edge is found, IMO.

Kicked 20 or more goals on SIX occasions, while Pendlebury, to this point, has only done that twice.
Fantastic point.
I've never thought of that, I must give that consideration.
 

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And Swanny and Mick both could win you BIG games. When games were on the line, those two always did something.
Swan agree, McGuane I dont recall that as such to win games, Pendlebury has willed us back into games and done the 1,000 different ways to slice opponents.

Ofcourse Pendlebury won a Norm Smith. (McGuane played very well GF 1990 too)

If I was scoring at levels of player I have both Pendlebury and Swan as 10, McGuane more in the 8 range.
 

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I would go Pendles over Swanny.
Swanny was brilliant and a great accumulator, but there have been many like him in AFL history.
Pendles with his time lord ability is much more unique. I haven't seen many if any players with his spacial awareness. For gods sake the guy gets the ball tilts his shoulders to the left a bit and 5 opposition players fall off him. What the hell is that.
 

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I would go Pendles over Swanny.
Swanny was brilliant and a great accumulator, but there have been many like him in AFL history.
Pendles with his time lord ability is much more unique. I haven't seen many if any players with his spacial awareness. For gods sake the guy gets the ball tilts his shoulders to the left a bit and 5 opposition players fall off him. What the hell is that.
It's very special.

What's the dumb things commentators say because they are all sheep at times, "it's his basket ball background"

No doubt it is something, and he was very good at basketball, really good, but not sure he was threatening the NBA. He just has a motion ability that is unique.
 

gene clark

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And Swanny and Mick both could win you BIG games. When games were on the line, those two always did something.
Pendlebury's record in big games is as good as Swans. He was certainly better in the 2010-11 GF's.
 
Having a go at our top 10, order a bit too hard but top ten, applying games played criteria so matches though I'd prefer that not be a factor as denies Ron Todd and others of their unique place:

Bob Rose
Nathan Buckley
Gordon Coventry
Leeter Collier
Harry Collier
Dick Lee*
Peter Daicos
Des Fothergill
Richard Condon
Jack Regan

*agree he MUST become an AFL Legend, won the goalkicking 10! times

Agree on Dick Lee, but probably should be above the Colliers. One of the all time greats, and almost certainly the greatest footballer pre-1940. Should've been in the AFL team of the century. Also in one of the most iconic football moment with that mark he took.
 

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Agree on Dick Lee, but probably should be above the Colliers. One of the all time greats, and almost certainly the greatest footballer pre-1940. Should've been in the AFL team of the century. Also in one of the most iconic football moment with that mark he took.
He would contend with Albert Thurgood as best key forward of their time
 

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If you're picking most talented he's number one.

Injuries forced him away from the midfield where he was sublime, into a forward where he was just freakish.

Easily the most talented player ever to pull on a Collingwood jumper, Phil Carman next according to those who saw his 1975 (??) season.
This.

This bloke would have been one of the best players ever. Fast, an amazing high mark, could kick bags and an unbelievable ball winner. He was already absolutely great and his career being largely ended by 21 years of age by that St Kilda dog is one of the travesties and tragedies of the game. One of my older Collingwood supporting relatives reckons losing him cost us probably 3-4 premierships in the 70's and early 80's and looking at his form line in 1972 before he was felled it is hard to argue with that.
remember
This.

This bloke would have been one of the best players ever. Fast, an amazing high mark, could kick bags and an unbelievable ball winner. He was already absolutely great and his career being largely ended by 21 years of age by that St Kilda dog is one of the travesties and tragedies of the game. One of my older Collingwood supporting relatives reckons losing him cost us probably 3-4 premierships in the 70's and early 80's and looking at his form line in 1972 before he was felled it is hard to argue with that.
had a mate playing at Collingwood when this happened,he said senior players had a meeting led by Len Thompsen and made a pact to never be beaten by St Kilda as a team again.
 

gene clark

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I reckon Michael Roberts has done a stellar job here.

The top 20 are 100% correct, I can't think of anyone I could swap out, or in to that top 20. After that it becomes a debate about many players, both recent and pre WW2, who could slide into those final 5 positions.

Hope this link isn't paywalled for most;

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/sp...s/news-story/26abcc812c88d290851697ea083675dc

If it is, here's the top 25;

1. Bob Rose
2. Nathan Buckley
3. Syd Coventry
4. Albert Collier
5. Harry Collier
6. Dick Lee
7. Peter Daicos
8. Gordon Coventry
9. Len Thompson
10. Scott Pendlebury
11. Des Fothergill
12. Dane Swan
13. Phonse Kyne
14. Jack Regan
15. Wayne Richardson
16. Gavin Brown
17. Murray Weideman
18. Bill Picken
19. Tony Shaw
20. Peter Mckenna
21. Des Tuddenham
22. Peter Moore
23. Thorold Merrett
24. Darren Millane
25. Dick Condon

Discuss, pick apart, or just enjoy.
I didn't see all of these blokes play obviously but I take slight exception to Gordon Coventry's placement. I know top 10 is fantastic but seriously he should be top 3 without question.

The first player to kick 100 goals. The first player to 300 games. The first and only player to kick 100+ goals in finals. The first player to kick 1000 goals. Still 2nd on the all time goal kickers list. First on the Collingwood all time goal kickers list by 400+ goals. Still holds the joint record for most goals in a GF with 9. Kicked 7 in another GF. Played in 5 flags. Kicked 100 goals for the Big V. 16x Leading goal kicker. Legend of the AFL....the list goes on.

He holds records for us that will never be broken (I wish). I'd almost argue he should be number 1 for the sheer weight of his numbers. An incredible footballer whose omission from the AFL team of the Century was the biggest joke and disgrace in that entire exercise of nepotism and bias.
 

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I didn't see all of these blokes play obviously but I take slight exception to Gordon Coventry's placement. I know top 10 is fantastic but seriously he should be top 3 without question.

The first player to kick 100 goals. The first player to 300 games. The first and only player to kick 100+ goals in finals. The first player to kick 1000 goals. Still 2nd on the all time goal kickers list. First on the Collingwood all time goal kickers list by 400+ goals. Still holds the joint record for most goals in a GF with 9. Kicked 7 in another GF. Played in 5 flags. Kicked 100 goals for the Big V. 16x Leading goal kicker. Legend of the AFL....the list goes on.

He holds records for us that will never be broken (I wish). I'd almost argue he should be number 1 for the sheer weight of his numbers. An incredible footballer whose omission from the AFL team of the Century was the biggest joke and disgrace in that entire exercise of nepotism and bias.
Your case is compelling with Gordon.
John Coleman, he got the nod, hard to argue on his numbers too.

But Gordon was something else too. Kicked 100 goals against every team he played against except Footscray, 89 only. But remembering they joined the comp in 1925 so Gordon missed a few years to kick a bag or two.

I'd say he should be higher than Syd too.

Interestingly they had a brother Norm, who it's been said was the best of all of them.
But that's easy to say when they don't play.
I think Norm died in action in the first WW or some such battlefield.

(Gordon Carlyon told me that story once, I always listed to Carlyon, he was this encyclopaedia on those old players and times.)
 

gene clark

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Your case is compelling with Gordon.
John Coleman, he got the nod, hard to argue on his numbers too.

But Gordon was something else too. Kicked 100 goals against every team he played against except Footscray, 89 only. But remembering they joined the comp in 1925 so Gordon missed a few years to kick a bag or two.

I'd say he should feel higher than Syd too.

Interestingly they had a brother Norm, who it's been said was the best of all of them.
But that's easy to say when they don't play.
I think Norm died in action in the first WW or some such battlefield.

(Gordon Carlyon told me that story once, I always listed to Carlyon, he was this encyclopaedia on those old players and times.)
Coleman was an absolute freak clearly (an old bloke I used to know watched him in the 40's-50's said he was the best player he ever saw, and reckoned Bobby Rose was the best he saw in black and white as a point of interest) and the Coleman Medal is an apt honour for his contributions.

But not to have Coventry in the team of the century was illogical. At that point he had every goal kicking record, was the ground breaker in terms of how many goals a player could kick etc. As good as Coleman was and as tragically short his career and life were, he still didn't kick half as many goals as Nuts did and the sheer scope of his achievements should have had him a lay down misère for the FF spot.
 

Robroy22

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I only saw Coleman play once as a kid but I saw him take some incredible marks that day at Viccy Park. He had the same aura as Peter Hudson (ie: you couldn't stop him kicking goals and just tried to limit him) but to my mind Hudson was as good (if not as sensational)
 

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Coleman was an absolute freak clearly (an old bloke I used to know watched him in the 40's-50's said he was the best player he ever saw, and reckoned Bobby Rose was the best he saw in black and white as a point of interest) and the Coleman Medal is an apt honour for his contributions.

But not to have Coventry in the team of the century was illogical. At that point he had every goal kicking record, was the ground breaker in terms of how many goals a player could kick etc. As good as Coleman was and as tragically short his career and life were, he still didn't kick half as many goals as Nuts did and the sheer scope of his achievements should have had him a lay down misère for the FF spot.
Compelling argument.
Can't disagree.
I'd simply have preferred the AFL team of the century gave the best three Full Forwards on the line. But that's me.
Matthews and Bunton can't argue their places but Kevin Murray, Greg Williams that pfffft Silvagni in the side before Lee or Coventry is such a joke. Seriously should Jesaulenko be in the all time team on a flank before Lee? Ridiculous and Jezza was a terrific player no doubt.

Then there is their choice of coach, so 6 flags beats 8 flags, there's a novel approach.

Look below at the AFL team of the century excluding Collingwood players.

My theory holds true, if you are Collingwood you must do more than other teams.


THE AFL TEAM OF THE CENTURY
B: B. Smith, S. Silvagni, J Regan (!), J. Nicholls
HB: B. Doull, T. Whitten (c) K. Murray
C: F. Bourke, I. Stewart, K Grieg
HF: A. Jesaulenko, R. Hart, D. Reynolds
F: L. Matthews, J. Coleman, H. Bunton
R: G. Farmer, R. Barassi, B. Skilton
I/C: G. Ablett, J. Dyer, G. Williams
Coach: N. Smith J McHale (!)
Umpire: J. Elder

You will find Bill Jacobs was a selector, enough said. And a bigger numb nuts, no nothing, but professes to know everything is hard to find. How he got that gig? Dreadful caller too.
 

gene clark

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Compelling argument.
Can't disagree.
I'd simply have preferred the AFL team of the century gave the best three Full Forwards on the line. But that's me.
Matthews and Bunton can't argue their places but Kevin Murray, Greg Williams that pfffft Silvagni in the side before Lee or Coventry is such a joke. Seriously should Jesaulenko be in the all time team on a flank before Lee? Ridiculous and Jezza was a terrific player no doubt.

Then there is their choice of coach, so 6 flags beats 8 flags, there's a novel approach.

Look below at the AFL team of the century excluding Collingwood players.

My theory holds true, if you are Collingwood you must do more than other teams.


THE AFL TEAM OF THE CENTURY
B: B. Smith, S. Silvagni, J Regan (!), J. Nicholls
HB: B. Doull, T. Whitten (c) K. Murray
C: F. Bourke, I. Stewart, K Grieg
HF: A. Jesaulenko, R. Hart, D. Reynolds
F: L. Matthews, J. Coleman, H. Bunton
R: G. Farmer, R. Barassi, B. Skilton
I/C: G. Ablett, J. Dyer, G. Williams
Coach: N. Smith J McHale (!)
Umpire: J. Elder

You will find Bill Jacobs was a selector, enough said. And a bigger numb nuts, no nothing, but professes to know everything is hard to find. How he got that gig? Dreadful caller too.
Percy Beames was another. Like he was going to be impartial coming from one of our most hated rivals.

And David Parkin was still coaching but got a gig as well hence Silvagni (who I rate but well behind David Dench) getting a game on the strength of his 1995 finals series. Nepotism wills out again.
 

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Percy Beames was another. Like he was going to be impartial coming from one of our most hated rivals.

And David Parkin was still coaching but got a gig as well hence Silvagni (who I rate but well behind David Dench) getting a game on the strength of his 1995 finals series. Nepotism wills out again.
Dreadful committe.

The current all Australian selection committee not much better
 

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