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Collins

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Faz 2000 said:
Genuinely clean disposal by foot is a huge gap for us, so if Collins can provide that it would be great.

Note how much Watson's kicking stood out the other night. We really only have about 2-3 players in our side who one would rate as "good" kicks at AFL level.
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Near elite (if not) kicks - Murphy, Yarren, Garlett
Quality kicks - Laidler, Warnock (for a big man), Gibbs, Simpson
Fringe players with AFL level kicking - Watson, Collins, Thornton (slow but solid), Kerr (possibly more)
Jury still out - Curnow, Henderson, Rusty, Kreuz, Eddie, Lucas, Duigan

We're not as bad as some make out, some are also improving weekly. .. Our structures, esp. up forward is what lets down our kicking sometimes. ..
 
Claypigeon said:
Near elite (if not) kicks - Murphy, Yarren, Garlett
Quality kicks - Laidler, Warnock (for a big man), Gibbs, Simpson
Fringe players with AFL level kicking - Watson, Collins, Thornton (slow but solid), Kerr (possibly more)
Jury still out - Curnow, Henderson, Rusty, Kreuz, Eddie, Lucas, Duigan

We're not as bad as some make out, some are also improving weekly. .. Our structures, esp. up forward is what lets down our kicking sometimes. ..
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Gibbs is without a doubt, the best, most consistent kick in the team. Smartest user of the ball bar none.
 
TheGeneral said:
If only Houlihan could kick...
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Knew I'd miss one or two. .. Houla is up there in the elite kicks. .. my main point was 2-3 good AFL kicks is a massive understatement. ..
 

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Jack TY said:
Was at the Ants game yesterday and got my first look at Collins. He seemed to bob up everywhere, covered the ground really well, has a bit of dash and is quite elusive. His disposal by foot was spot on.

While I was filthy on Grigg, my first impression is we havent downgraded. Both players would make our best 22 when in form. Grigg probably has more grunt but Curnow is providing that. Collins more polish and is a good replacement for Houlihan.
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I said that as soon as I heard about us trading Collins for Grigg. Grigg was good on the weekend and while he still has that horrible tendency to just kick long at all costs, he hit a few targets and missed more than most.

Collins, as people have noted, had a shoulder op in the preseason and has been subjected to more intensive training since he resumed. He is as slick and skilled as Hoops, just needs to be deprogrammed to get him out of the Richmond mindset, and in a couple of years will be Hoops direct replacement as our defensive forward.

I am not overly concerned that we havent seen Collins yet because we dont have a need at the moment to blood him immediately. We have good depth and can afford to allow some of our newer players (Collins, McCarthy and Mitchell) the time to develop properly.
 
HARKER said:
Gibbs is a better field kick than Houlihan.
Houlihans kicks haven't the depth nor the penetration of Gibbs's.

To be honest, I think we've all played up Houlihan"s kicking prowess to some degree.
He's good, just not really that good, and he always stood out in a team that essentially could not kick.
Being the best of a bad bunch doesn't make him elite.
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Hallelujah! At last someone can see the poo from the clay!

Hopefully Collins proves a more valuable asset to us than Holahooper, the worlds luckiest AFL footballer!!
 
Claypigeon said:
Near elite (if not) kicks - Murphy, Yarren, Garlett
Quality kicks - Laidler, Warnock (for a big man), Gibbs, Simpson
Fringe players with AFL level kicking - Watson, Collins, Thornton (slow but solid), Kerr (possibly more)
Jury still out - Curnow, Henderson, Rusty, Kreuz, Eddie, Lucas, Duigan

We're not as bad as some make out, some are also improving weekly. .. Our structures, esp. up forward is what lets down our kicking sometimes. ..
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Reckon you're underrating Rusty there, I rate him as a qualty kick.
 
TheGeneral said:
If only Houlihan could kick...
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If Collins can hold tackles and put his head over the ball and block for other players then the position at half forward is his. While Ryan is beautiful kick we now from history he won't do the other. Collins looks to a beautiful kick also, we could finally have a complete player on a forward flank.
 
Jock said:
If Collins can hold tackles and put his head over the ball and block for other players then the position at half forward is his. While Ryan is beautiful kick we now from history he won't do the other. Collins looks to a beautiful kick also, we could finally have a complete player on a forward flank.
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:thumbsd: That's complete bull5#1%
 
HARKER said:
Gibbs is a better field kick than Houlihan.
Houlihans kicks haven't the depth nor the penetration of Gibbs's.

To be honest, I think we've all played up Houlihan"s kicking prowess to some degree.
He's good, just not really that good, and he always stood out in a team that essentially could not kick.
Being the best of a bad bunch doesn't make him elite.
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Think overall Houlihan is an example of why Carlton have been so bad for so long. He is such a gifted footballer on so many levels but has underachieved. For whatever reason Carlton for years has not been good at getting the best out of it's list. Houlihan if he was consistently at his best would have been an All Australian. I see that the success of clubs like Geelong and now Collingwood is that they got the best out of their lists.This year however I am hopeful that this is changing. Even having someone as grounded as Gavin Brown at the club will make a big difference. Sorry that I have gone off the topic a bit but Hoops has frustrated me for a long time as has Carlton's player management.
 

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pumped said:
Think overall Houlihan is an example of why Carlton have been so bad for so long. He is such a gifted footballer on so many levels but has underachieved. For whatever reason Carlton for years has not been good at getting the best out of it's list. Houlihan if he was consistently at his best would have been an All Australian. I see that the success of clubs like Geelong and now Collingwood is that they got the best out of their lists.This year however I am hopeful that this is changing. Even having someone as grounded as Gavin Brown at the club will make a big difference. Sorry that I have gone off the topic a bit but Hoops has frustrated me for a long time as has Carlton's player management.
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The major issues with Hoops were 1. Chronic hip injuries & 2. Being played out of position, due to a lack of any other options. In a strong side, he would have played HFF his whole career.
 
Stamos said:
The major issues with Hoops were 1. Chronic hip injuries & 2. Being played out of position, due to a lack of any other options. In a strong side, he would have played HFF his whole career.
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Def contributing factors . However too many times like many others he has been hot and cold when fully fit. His best is amazing and his worst very ordinary.
 
pumped said:
Def contributing factors . However too many times like many others he has been hot and cold when fully fit. His best is amazing and his worst very ordinary.
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Houla to me just struggles from been a follower rather than a leader. .. He is the kind of player that will put the icing on the cake, not win you the game or bring you back into the game. .. You need foot soldiers in the team and Houla is a top shelf foot soldier. .. I think this is the reason he looked so good early in his career (we had true leaders still in the club) and has picked it back up again late in his career (With a strong leadership group). ..
 
BF Tiger said:
Judd and WCE?
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Won the Brownlow with them, won them a flag. Other players on the team were being ****heads and getting in to trouble off the field.

Judd saw the writing on the wall and thought, what better time than now to go back home.

Grigg wasn't working hard enough to be a starter so decided to leave. Two very different scenarios.

Also WCE got Kennedy and 3 draft picks out of the Judd trade. In fact I seem to remember a lot of people on BF saying that WCE won the trade.
 

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Claypigeon said:
Houla to me just struggles from been a follower rather than a leader. .. He is the kind of player that will put the icing on the cake, not win you the game or bring you back into the game. .. You need foot soldiers in the team and Houla is a top shelf foot soldier. .. I think this is the reason he looked so good early in his career (we had true leaders still in the club) and has picked it back up again late in his career (With a strong leadership group). ..
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Can see where you draw this opinion on him. However whilst I believe that you are correct in that at times he has lacked leadership. However I have seen him get the hard ball and be a leader on some occassions. Reminds me of Stevens in that he too could do everything sometimes but not consistently.
 
:thumbsu:

Rapt for him. Don't wanna expect too much.. but I reckon the lad will give his all, no question of that.
 

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